[2017 NBA Draft Discussion] - (1: PHI, 2: LAL, 3: BOS)!

[kennygee90]

It's hard to tell whose better. Fultz is the ultimate scorer. His got advanced moves beyond his age plus his shooting and measurables are great. Lonzo is the ultimate team player. His unique and his impact on the game goes far beyond numbers. If his shooting percentages hold up then his a transcendent talent. His efficiency blows all the pgs the past 10 years out of the water. His high IQ and passing is unmatched. Can't lose with either one.

[LeonGenesis]

Ball is going to be another Rubio....bank on it.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I agree with a lot of what you said. I do have some different opinions though, I dont think Fultz is necessarily the better athlete. I think Ball is bouncier and is faster in the open court. Also I dont expect Fultz to be the better defender either, especially early in their career. I think Fultz is getting a big benefit of the doubt defensively because he has a long wingspan. I think Fultz has terrible fundamentals defensively and has never really shown the effort on that side of the ball (especially off the ball). Ball on the other hand I think has better fundamentals and puts more of an effort in (especially off the ball), Lonzo really struggles in one area and its the one area you wished he didnt. He struggles to fight through picks, you set a screen and he just dies. I think theyre both going to struggle defensively, to begin with, but I think you can hide Ball much better off the ball defensively.

Agreed Fultz was a terrible defender in college. The thing that gives me optimism is that he has some very good raw tools and could not be going to a better situation to develop this aspect of his game. Stevens demands a lot out of his rookies defensively and they generally all have performed well. Yes, none were as poorly developed as Fultz, but the Celtics were the best possible result for him to grow immensely in this area, IMO.

[nolang1]

Fultz is a much better scorer, dished out assists on a higher percentage of his team's possessions, turned it over on a lower percentage of his team's possessions, and did all that while being 7 months younger than Ball and playing for a team that had nobody else good enough to receive any attention from opposing defenses or NBA scouts.

[Michael Lucky]

Size, strength, athleticism. While not being as good a passer as Ball he is still very good at it. Better in the pick n roll, whether it is to score or set up a teammate. Higher defensive upside due to his length and quickness. Helps that he has 30 different moves to set up his own shot. Draws tons of fouls already. If his three point shot translates, you are literally talking about an unstoppable offensive player in this up tempo/spacing the floor league.

[DusterBuster]

Better scoring. Can play the 2.
Ball looks very passive at times.

Plus no Lavar Ball.

This is a very large plus.

Lonzo's shot also looks totally broken. I'm going out on a limb and labeling him as MCW 2.0.

[Jazzy13]

Ball is going to be another Rubio....bank on it.

Rubio plays way better defense with less shooting accuracy than Ball from what we've seen so far.

[The Bronx]

Better scoring. Can play the 2.
Ball looks very passive at times.

Plus no Lavar Ball.

This is a very large plus.

Lonzo's shot also looks totally broken. I'm going out on a limb and labeling him as MCW 2.0.

Comments like this is why RealGm should institute the "Foul" button, like the "And1" but the opposite

[DusterBuster]

Better scoring. Can play the 2.
Ball looks very passive at times.

Plus no Lavar Ball.

This is a very large plus.

Lonzo's shot also looks totally broken. I'm going out on a limb and labeling him as MCW 2.0.

Comments like this is why RealGm should institute the "Foul" button, like the "And1" but the opposite

Tall playmaking PG with a broken jumpshot..... sounds like MCW to me.

[The Bronx]

This is a very large plus.

Lonzo's shot also looks totally broken. I'm going out on a limb and labeling him as MCW 2.0.

Comments like this is why RealGm should institute the "Foul" button, like the "And1" but the opposite

Tall playmaking PG with a broken jumpshot..... sounds like MCW to me.

Just because his form is weird doesn't mean that his shot is broken. What is a "broken shot" anyway?

His play making skills are WAYYY better than MCW

[Mik317]

Ball shoots from beyond NBA range with ease. His form is wack but it works for him...he's been a good shooter for a while with said wonky jumper.

[Tzar]

This is a very large plus.

Lonzo's shot also looks totally broken. I'm going out on a limb and labeling him as MCW 2.0.

Comments like this is why RealGm should institute the "Foul" button, like the "And1" but the opposite

Tall playmaking PG with a broken jumpshot..... sounds like MCW to me.

His skill set is very different from MCW's. I'm not making a value-judgment as to whether Ball will be better than MCW, rather I'm simply pointing out that this is a lazy comparison. Ball, while having a unorthodox jump shot, can actually shoot from 3. Ball also has vastly superior court vision - which is not to be understated. Indeed, Ball's court vision is his defining characteristic. MCW has, at best, above average court vision.

There are much better "bust" comps for Ball than MCW. Ball is such a unique prospect, that one really cannot compare him in any substantive way to any player currently in the NBA. Rather, I would compare him to NBA players along a different rubric. That is, I would look at players who excelled in college, but their respective "skill sets" did not translate to NBA success for one reason or another. I think a better comp for Ball along this spectrum would be a player like Jahlil Okafor. Okafor had GLARING weaknesses to his game. But he also had one superior skill that most, if not all scouts, said would instantly translate to the NBA - his low post scoring ability. His success in the NBA largely hinged on whether this ability was so superior that it would ostensibly mask his obvious flaws. His success would also hinge on his ability to correct some of his flaws at the margins. Similarly, Ball has one clear, indubitable skill - court vision. He, like Okafor, has clear flaws as well - flaws that, also like Okafor, are magnified by current NBA trends. For Okafor, this was being able to pick and pop, and be a rim protector. For Ball, it's the ability to score off the pick and roll, and break defenders down with his handle and get to the rim.

As a Laker fan, this is what worries me most about Ball. That his game will not translate in the Okafor-ian sense.

[RightToCensor]

Is the jump shot really broken if it goes through the net?

[KFL]

Kevin Martin's form was awkward too and he put up 20 a night.

[2Mas]

Comments like this is why RealGm should institute the "Foul" button, like the "And1" but the opposite

Tall playmaking PG with a broken jumpshot..... sounds like MCW to me.

Just because his form is weird doesn't mean that his shot is broken. What is a "broken shot" anyway?

His play making skills are WAYYY better than MCW

MCW doesn't have 1 nba skill. He's not a great passer. Doesn't have good handles. Doesn't have a jump shot. He's not even athletic. He has a long wingspan so he plays mediocre defense. That's his skill lol.

Lonzo comes in a better shooter, passer, floor manager, finisher, better handles. Everything but defense. & I'd assume next year that'll change once Lonzo get used to it & MCW is out the league.

[Jadoogar]

i'm not a college expert but from the clips i've seen, it seems Lonzo's inability to get to the rim will limit his potential. He should still have a high floor because he's a good passer and a good cath and shoot guy. Like Rubio with less defense, more shooting.

[UcanUwill]

Ball is going to be another Rubio....bank on it.

That would not be terrible.

[peZt]

Ball is going to be another Rubio....bank on it.

Even if so, Ball can clearly shoot the Basketball and finish at the rim so he would be Rubio without his two most glaring weaknesses, which to me is worthy of a 2nd pick.
Hell I'd argue Rubio with a jump shot and the ability to finish at the rim is at least a top 5 PG in the league

[DusterBuster]

Tall playmaking PG with a broken jumpshot..... sounds like MCW to me.

Just because his form is weird doesn't mean that his shot is broken. What is a "broken shot" anyway?

His play making skills are WAYYY better than MCW

MCW doesn't have 1 nba skill. He's not a great passer. Doesn't have good handles. Doesn't have a jump shot. He's not even athletic. He has a long wingspan so he plays mediocre defense. That's his skill lol.

Lonzo comes in a better shooter, passer, floor manager, finisher, better handles. Everything but defense. & I'd assume next year that'll change once Lonzo get used to it & MCW is out the league.

Gotta love the short attention span memories of NBA fans.

[2Mas]

Just because his form is weird doesn't mean that his shot is broken. What is a "broken shot" anyway?

His play making skills are WAYYY better than MCW

MCW doesn't have 1 nba skill. He's not a great passer. Doesn't have good handles. Doesn't have a jump shot. He's not even athletic. He has a long wingspan so he plays mediocre defense. That's his skill lol.

Lonzo comes in a better shooter, passer, floor manager, finisher, better handles. Everything but defense. & I'd assume next year that'll change once Lonzo get used to it & MCW is out the league.

Gotta love the short attention span memories of NBA fans.

& How is my attention span short?

Don't be throwing insults with nothing to back it up.