2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

I really don't see what's not to like about BAM! If the dude buys into his role, he can be a pick & roll monster in the NBA. I'm not saying he's Amare Stoudemire, but I think his offensive potential is higher than most of these other athletic rim-runners (Ike, Allen).

totally with you

I can see a lot of potential for him to be a great roll man...and a rim running big who can work really well on the break with this team.

Add in his toughness, and rebounding...and it really makes a lot of sense.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

not sure why, but he reminds me a bit of Ben Wallace

the only slight on him in my opinion is that he's not as active on the defensive glass as he is on the offensive glass. but that can be beaten into him.

[skones]

not sure why, but he reminds me a bit of Ben Wallace

the only slight on him in my opinion is that he's not as active on the defensive glass as he is on the offensive glass. but that can be beaten into him.

Activity level isn't really beaten into guys, it's innate.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

not sure why, but he reminds me a bit of Ben Wallace

the only slight on him in my opinion is that he's not as active on the defensive glass as he is on the offensive glass. but that can be beaten into him.

Activity level isn't really beaten into guys, it's innate.

that's just it. he has it on the offensive glass. pretty sure it could be re-directed to apply the same on both ends.

[SupremeHustle]

I think I want to trade up for Zach Collins. That dude is going to be good.

Why do we both love big American white boys? Ellenson last year and Collins this year. I've got Collins #4 on my big board right now...could maybe talk me into being #3 after Fultz/Ball

Game recognize game. And real game is color blind.

[skones]

not sure why, but he reminds me a bit of Ben Wallace

the only slight on him in my opinion is that he's not as active on the defensive glass as he is on the offensive glass. but that can be beaten into him.

Activity level isn't really beaten into guys, it's innate.

that's just it. he has it on the offensive glass. pretty sure it could be re-directed to apply the same on both ends.

Historically it hasn't worked that way. Defensive rebounding is much more nuanced than that. He doesn't block shots like he should given his physical ability, and he doesn't rebound. That to me, would be an indicator of a lack of awareness at this stage, which doesn't make me thrilled about his overall projection given the type of role he'd slot into.

[skones]

I guess I don't really value passing ability for bigs that much unless he's a guy that you're gonna wanna have the ball in his hands a lot. If Hartenstein isn't a great shooter, then he loses 99% of the intrigue I have for him. I gotta be convinced that he can space the floor at a reasonable level (~35%), because I'm not convinced that he's gonna be a great rim-protector.

It's not that he has passing ability per se. It's that he's able to see the floor. Whether he's got the ball in his hands or not, it's a good indicator of awareness of action on the floor.

I think if an NBA team has a guy on the floor that can't pass and/or take care of the ball, it can really limit offensive potential.

Well yeah.....obviously. That's not what you project through experience.

[HurricaneKid]

I'm just trying to think of recent "one for two" situations where a team traded back and ended up with both later picks being better than who was picked at their original slot, and all I can come up with is the Denver-Chicago trade in 2014 (McDermott for Nurkic + Gary Harris). The best bet is almost always to just take the most talented player with the higher pick.

Shabazz and Dieng for Trey Burke.

In fact, I can't think of a lot of these 2 for 1s that didn't work out that way.

[Rockmaninoff]

It's not that he has passing ability per se. It's that he's able to see the floor. Whether he's got the ball in his hands or not, it's a good indicator of awareness of action on the floor.

I think if an NBA team has a guy on the floor that can't pass and/or take care of the ball, it can really limit offensive potential.

Well yeah.....obviously. That's not what you project through experience.

I'm not sure if it's a given though that poor skill will become adequate through experience.

It might be more likely that teams limit exposure of a poor skill, which limits ability to improve through experience.

[skones]

I think if an NBA team has a guy on the floor that can't pass and/or take care of the ball, it can really limit offensive potential.

Well yeah.....obviously. That's not what you project through experience.

I'm not sure if it's a given though that poor skill will become adequate through experience.

It might be more likely that teams limit exposure of a poor skill, which limits ability to improve through experience.

As I stated earlier, I don't think it's a product of poor skill at all so much as it's playing to fast, making unnecessary gambles on home run plays, and overall inexperience.

[MVP2110]

I think everyone is sleeping on John Collins here. Huge fan of his. Knows how to score in a variety of ways. Not a great defender but will be able to hold his own. I think he'll be a guy that can average 15/8 with slightly above average defense for 10-12 years

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

I think everyone is sleeping on John Collins here. Huge fan of his. Knows how to score in a variety of ways. Not a great defender but will be able to hold his own. I think he'll be a guy that can average 15/8 with slightly above average defense for 10-12 years

there is a LOT of solid types in this draft...no doubt. lots of guys you can look to and say "he will have a nice, long, productive career being a 14/7 guy".

[skones]

There is no player in this draft more Mo Speights than John Collins. Easy pass for me.

[machu46]

I think everyone is sleeping on John Collins here. Huge fan of his. Knows how to score in a variety of ways. Not a great defender but will be able to hold his own. I think he'll be a guy that can average 15/8 with slightly above average defense for 10-12 years

I think I have him at 9 or 10 on my overall draft board. Think he's a pretty great prospect.

[Matches Malone]

Read on Twitter

[Licensed to Il]

Once you get out of the 9-12 range and there is no pressure to draft a starter, I can't imagine a team that wouldn't want to bring a guy like Kennard off the bench.

[Fotis St]

There is no player in this draft more Mo Speights than John Collins. Easy pass for me.

Disagree. John Collins leads this draft class in PER by far according to DX

1.John Collins 36.3
2. Zach Collins 31.3
3. Sindarius Thornwell 30.6

He is at least a Taj Gibson. He could be the starter PF and probably the No3-4 guy in a Championship team

[skones]

There is no player in this draft more Mo Speights than John Collins. Easy pass for me.

Disagree. John Collins leads this draft class in PER by far according to DX

1.John Collins 36.3
2. Zach Collins 31.3
3. Sindarius Thornwell 30.6

He is at least a Taj Gibson. He could be the starter PF and probably the No3-4 guy in a Championship team

PER means nothing outside of boxscore production. Terrible way to shoot down a comparison and make a judgement on a player.

[Fotis St]

There is no player in this draft more Mo Speights than John Collins. Easy pass for me.

Disagree. John Collins leads this draft class in PER by far according to DX

1.John Collins 36.3
2. Zach Collins 31.3
3. Sindarius Thornwell 30.6

He is at least a Taj Gibson. He could be the starter PF and probably the No3-4 guy in a Championship team

PER means nothing outside of boxscore production. Terrible way to shoot down a comparison and make a judgement on a player.

You know better than that ... you (should) know that I have scouted him. I don't evaluate players only by stats and PER.

Unfortunately real GMs will pick him earlier than our #17... And I posted at least Taj Gibson which shouldn't trigged you like I am overreacting.

[skones]

Disagree. John Collins leads this draft class in PER by far according to DX

1.John Collins 36.3
2. Zach Collins 31.3
3. Sindarius Thornwell 30.6

He is at least a Taj Gibson. He could be the starter PF and probably the No3-4 guy in a Championship team

PER means nothing outside of boxscore production. Terrible way to shoot down a comparison and make a judgement on a player.

You know better than that ... you (should) know that I have scouted him. I don't evaluate players only by stats and PER.

Unfortunately real GMs will pick him earlier than our #17... And I posted at least Taj Gibson which shouldn't trigged you like I am overreacting.

That's literally the reasoning you just gave. Taj Gibson defends. Collins has no clue.