Hayward Undecided

24istheLAW · Post #521 » by **24istheLAW** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 2:51 pm

CeltsfaninDC wrote:If he stays in Utah its because his family likes it there and wants to stay there (and there is no fault in that at all). Its certainly not because he thinks they can win anytime soon (which they cannot). If he comes to the Celts, its because he wants to win and the Coach. The money is almost a wash with the current system in place.

Jazz 51-31
Celtics 53-29

But he can only win in if he comes to Boston?

GoCeltics123 · Post #522 » by **GoCeltics123** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 2:53 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
CeltsfaninDC wrote:If he stays in Utah its because his family likes it there and wants to stay there (and there is no fault in that at all). Its certainly not because he thinks they can win anytime soon (which they cannot). If he comes to the Celts, its because he wants to win and the Coach. The money is almost a wash with the current system in place.

Jazz 51-31
Celtics 53-29

But he can only win in if he comes to Boston?

Jazz are good but no one's beating GSW

There's still like a 1% chance you can beat the Cavs. Incredibly unlikely, but possible

Banks2Pierce · Post #523 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 2:56 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
Jazz 51-31
Celtics 53-29

But he can only win in if he comes to Boston?

Boston with Hayward > Jazz with Hayward

and have the means to improve
and don't have GSW looming before the finals.

CelticsLV · Post #524 » by **CelticsLV** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 2:57 pm

Almeida wrote:

Read on Twitter

Just as i mention it this pops out! :lol:

Post #525 » by **Jamaaliver** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:02 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
greenmachine_2849 wrote:...I think the 2008 Celtics were kind of the precursor to what we have now in Golden State. Not exactly the same thing, but if you squint hard enough they do have a definite resemblance. Don't think you have the latter without the former.

This is absolutely the case.

Ainge accumulated over-the-hill superstars, hungry for the chance at greatness.

Years later, top free agents would choose to replicate this approach repeatedly.

Apples to oranges. The 2008 Celtics were built by trades.

Technically, so was the 2011 Heat.

Riley and LeBron saw three Hall Of Famers (who couldn't win) unite and form a super team that he couldn't get past.

Then they chose to recreate with three younger Hall of Famers down in Miami.

It's clear they were inspired by what that Celtics squad was able to accomplish.
In the same way Durant was inspired by what LeBron did when he joined that super squad down in Miami.

Captain_Caveman · Post #526 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:15 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
CeltsfaninDC wrote:If he stays in Utah its because his family likes it there and wants to stay there (and there is no fault in that at all). Its certainly not because he thinks they can win anytime soon (which they cannot). If he comes to the Celts, its because he wants to win and the Coach. The money is almost a wash with the current system in place.

Jazz 51-31
Celtics 53-29

But he can only win in if he comes to Boston?

Add 10 of Utah's wins to Boston if he comes here, though.

Utah has no way to add 10 if he stays.

With the recent high picks, it will only get worse from there.

TheOGJabroni · Post #527 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:17 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
CeltsfaninDC wrote:If he stays in Utah its because his family likes it there and wants to stay there (and there is no fault in that at all). Its certainly not because he thinks they can win anytime soon (which they cannot). If he comes to the Celts, its because he wants to win and the Coach. The money is almost a wash with the current system in place.

Jazz 51-31
Celtics 53-29

But he can only win in if he comes to Boston?

Yes, the records are close but you're not factoring in Hayward switching teams which will obviously have a negative effect on the Jazz and positive on the Celtics. Plus, the West has Golden St. who aren't going anywhere anytime soon. East has Cleveland but that situation appears to be more volatile and there's at least a light at the end of that tunnel.

CeltsfaninDC · Post #528 » by **CeltsfaninDC** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:20 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
CeltsfaninDC wrote:If he stays in Utah its because his family likes it there and wants to stay there (and there is no fault in that at all). Its certainly not because he thinks they can win anytime soon (which they cannot). If he comes to the Celts, its because he wants to win and the Coach. The money is almost a wash with the current system in place.

Jazz 51-31
Celtics 53-29

But he can only win in if he comes to Boston?

Really? Do I need to point directly at the GSW for you? Utah finished 5th and have 0.00% chance of getting by the GSW, Spurs or Rockets anytime soon. So yeah, if he wants to win he moves out of the West and to the team that finished #1 in the East who are also adding the #1 overall draft pick AND potentially other key pieces as well as the 10 or so wins that he himself would bring. I stand by my previous statement

FlatearthZorro · Post #529 » by **FlatearthZorro** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:22 pm

CelticsLV wrote:
Almeida wrote:

Read on Twitter

Just as i mention it this pops out!

I literally have no idea how Miami can be a true contender even with Hayward there. Dragic is 31 and about to probably get a good paycheck next season, Whiteside is good but probably can't play too many minutes in the current NBA.

I think we are much, much better now and in the future- meaning we got the #1, to me we still have the better coach and a ton more assets to improve the roster even without cap- something MIA doesn't have. We could easily trade a pick + young guy + say Jae for probably George(18' BKN). Something I dunno how Miami has the assets to do.

London2Boston · Post #530 » by **London2Boston** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:28 pm

If he goes Miami then it's for the lifestyle. Don't give me none of that "it's a great organisation" blah blah blah. Either way, I still think he stays.

Post #531 » by **165bows** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:31 pm

Miami shaping up to be for Hayward as Boston was for Durant.

Foil from the start.

fallguy · Post #532 » by **fallguy** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:37 pm

What else is Riley pitching him on? Hayward's not going there without Miami articulating a clear plan to contend. And they're far away.

Post #533 » by **Slartibartfast** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:45 pm

fallguy wrote:What else is Riley pitching him on? Hayward's not going there without Miami articulating a clear plan to contend. And they're far away.

Not always all about contending, especially when guys see Golden St. on the verge of going 16-0.

Money, playoffs, guys he likes to play with, a coach he likes - I think Hayward will be open to playing anywhere that checks off those boxes.

Curmudgeon · Post #534 » by **Curmudgeon** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 3:45 pm

Florida has no state income tax. That's Miami's first selling point. The Second is that they went 30-11 for the second half of the season: a 60-win pace. And with Bosh off the payroll, Miami has more cap space than Boston,

Green89 · Post #535 » by **Green89** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 4:25 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
fallguy wrote:What else is Riley pitching him on? Hayward's not going there without Miami articulating a clear plan to contend. And they're far away.

Not always all about contending, especially when guys see Golden St. on the verge of going 16-0.

Money, playoffs, guys he likes to play with, a coach he likes - I think Hayward will be open to playing anywhere that checks off those boxes.

Reports were that winning a title was Hayward's number one priority.

fallguy · Post #536 » by **fallguy** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 4:36 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Florida has no state income tax. That's Miami's first selling point. The Second is that they went 30-11 for the second half of the season: a 60-win pace. And with Bosh off the payroll, Miami has more cap space than Boston,

How predictive do we think that 30-11 is for next year?

Post #537 » by **Slartibartfast** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 4:55 pm

Green89 wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
fallguy wrote:What else is Riley pitching him on? Hayward's not going there without Miami articulating a clear plan to contend. And they're far away.

Not always all about contending, especially when guys see Golden St. on the verge of going 16-0.

Money, playoffs, guys he likes to play with, a coach he likes - I think Hayward will be open to playing anywhere that checks off those boxes.

Reports were that winning a title was Hayward's number one priority.

Just saying that's not a realistic priority in this FA climate.

If that's really his priority, he's going to be signing a 1+1 a la LBJ to make sure he can jump to a better situation.

ConstableGeneva · Post #538 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 5:00 pm

We get Hayward, they get RJ. Seems fair.

Read on Twitter

Captain_Caveman · Post #539 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 5:51 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Florida has no state income tax. That's Miami's first selling point. The Second is that they went 30-11 for the second half of the season: a 60-win pace. And with Bosh off the payroll, Miami has more cap space than Boston,

The taxes doesn't really work like that. They pay state taxes depending on where the games are played, for starters. So it is much less of an advantage than people have claimed. Been several illuminating articles about this from tax lawyers who work with pro athletes.

No doubt that they are an attractive FA destination, but easy to get carried away with that first point. Also really to overstate the value of the end of season record. Heat were a .500 team that didn't even make the playoffs last year, and would be no better than the Jazz team that he'd be leaving.

A Dragic/Hayward/Whiteside/Winslow/Tyler Johnson core is not going to get it done.

Gant · Post #540 » by **Gant** » Fri Jun 9, 2017 6:26 pm

While Miami can't be discounted, top priority for most top free agents would have to be winning going forward. The Celtics have an advantage of 12 wins over Miami. Plus they have vastly superior young/future assets that have not yet added wins: Brown, Fultz, BRK 18. Boston is the stronger team both now and in the future over the Jazz and Heat.

The Celtics have the history edge, which might matter to some players.

Miami has weather. Miami has a slight tax advantage which as Caveman notes, is not what it seems. Miami does not have a better team advantage over Utah.

Both Miami and Boston have the Eastern conference edge. Also Utah did not treat Hayward all that great in his early years there.

So Boston really does have some significant points in their favor over both the Jazz and Heat.

...Then add on to all that the mighty Brad Stevens. Utah and Miami have fine coaches, but this is Brad Freakin Butler Bulldog Stevens. That means something— and it might REALLY MEAN SOMETHING.