2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread IV

[Kobblehead]

Wrong.

I get that Baldwin has excellent length and a solid build, but I think his defensive ability is being vastly overstated during this pre-draft process.

To me, Baldwin projects as a "slightly below-average to average" defender at the NBA level. He possesses pretty ordinary instincts.

[LloydFree]

smokescreens everywhere

Yeah, this Boston-Sacramento thing may be just cleverly orchestrated smokescreen by Boston to jack up the bidding on #1. I just can't figure out what Fultz has to gain by working out for the Kings. I'm almost expecting that report to be false.

[Unbreakable99]

Reports keep saying the Lakers were not impressed with Ball. If this is true then we might really have a chance at getting Ball which would infuriate 30% of the fans and get 40% of the fans excited and the remaining 30% would be indifferent lol.

[smittybanton]

Wrong.

I get that Baldwin has excellent length and a solid build, but I think his defensive ability is being vastly overstated during this pre-draft process.

To me, Baldwin projects as a "slightly below-average to average" defender at the NBA level. He possesses pretty ordinary instincts.

So then you know wingspan does not have a one to one relationship with defense, no? LMAO

[Kobblehead]

So then you know wingspan does not have a one to one relationship with defense, no? LMAO

Why are you assuming I'm basing my entire evaluation of Leaf's defense on his wingspan? He was a visually poor defender at UCLA. So was Tim Hardaway in Atlanta this year and you seem to be under the impression that he's a good defender, too. What gives?

[LloydFree]

Reports keep saying the Lakers were not impressed with Ball. If this is true then we might really have a chance at getting Ball which would infuriate 30% of the fans and get 40% of the fans excited and the remaining 30% would be indifferent lol.

Do you live in the Philadelphia market? Based on my experiences as a fan in this market, those percentages are very optimistic. Lonzo Ball could be better than Michael Jordan, and the fanbase would still be anti-Ball, due to the attention his father gets.

[SelfishPlayer]

Reports keep saying the Lakers were not impressed with Ball. If this is true then we might really have a chance at getting Ball which would infuriate 30% of the fans and get 40% of the fans excited and the remaining 30% would be indifferent lol.

Do you live in the Philadelphia market? Bases on my experiences as a fan in this market, those percentages are very optimistic. Lonzo Ball could be better than Michael Jordan, and the fanbase would still be anti-Ball, due to the attention his father gets.

If Lavar Ball becomes a Sixers fan, Philadelphians will love him.

[Kobblehead]

I wonder if the Lakers view Lonzo's introverted, reserved demeanor as a negative trait.

[Kobblehead]

A few of us have been saying it all year, Lonzo's catch and shoot ability and low-maintenance 18% usage makes him the most seamless fit with Embiid/Simmons of all the top prospects. Him falling to #3 would be incredible.

[smittybanton]

So then you know wingspan does not have a one to one relationship with defense, no? LMAO

Why are you assuming I'm basing my entire evaluation of Leaf's defense on his wingspan? He was a visually poor defender at UCLA. So was Tim Hardaway in Atlanta this year and you seem to be under the impression that he's a good defender, too. What gives?

What gives is that you and I see defense vastly different in a lot of players, I think. Plain and simple. I've noticed that your assessments of defense are fairly binary (although the one on Baldwin is quite measured, I must admit). You don't think holding players to a low field goal percentage, especially as you get closer to the rim, means anything. Your'e entitled. I do. On the other hand, I put less value in steals, wingspan and team ratings (unless circumstances say for some reason that the context is the same between the two players). Then there's the eye-test, which is necessarily different one person to the next.

I guess the question really should be, why wouldn't we see players differently, if there's anything fun to evaluating players at all?

Cheers!

[HotelVitale]

smokescreens everywhere

Yeah, this Boston-Sacramento thing may be just cleverly orchestrated smokescreen by Boston to jack up the bidding on #1. I just can't figure out what Fultz has to gain by working out for the Kings. I'm almost expecting that report to be false.

My guess is that he's trying to be a nice kid and working out for anyone in the top 5 that asks him. Seems like it fits his personality. Could be something more interesting/sinister but I'm going with the simple explanation until there's new developments.

[LloydFree]

So then you know wingspan does not have a one to one relationship with defense, no? LMAO

Why are you assuming I'm basing my entire evaluation of Leaf's defense on his wingspan? He was a visually poor defender at UCLA. So was Tim Hardaway in Atlanta this year and you seem to be under the impression that he's a good defender, too. What gives?

What gives is that you and I see defense vastly different in a lot of players, I think. Plain and simple. I've noticed that your assessments of defense are fairly binary (although the one on Baldwin is quite measured, I must admit). You don't think holding players to a low field goal percentage, especially as you get closer to the rim, means anything. Your'e entitled. I do. On the other hand, I put less value in steals, wingspan and team ratings (unless circumstances say for some reason that the context is the same between the two players). Then there's the eye-test, which is necessarily different one person to the next.

I guess the question really should be, why wouldn't we see players differently, if there's anything fun to evaluating players at all?

Cheers!

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out this TJ Leaf fascination you have. He's the most ordinary of College talents you will ever find, projected in the 1st round of an NBA draft. He's​ a decent shooter and isn't plus in anything else including athleticism. He'll be lucky to carve be out a career as good as Nick Collison, in the NBA.

[shawn_hemp]

I think Ball got some underserved flak over the tournament game against Kentucky because De'Aaron Fox had such a great game

People started extrapolating aspects of Ball's play style that fell short in that particular game and acting like they would therefore never transition to the NBA.

He is still the best passer in this draft by far and sees the floor very well. He might not be a lockdown defender but he has the length to at least make passes have to be crisp going against him.

It really all comes down to his 3. If you think he will be an above average shooter from deep in the NBA than Ball should really be the #1 on most boards since Fultz isn't likely to be making many All-Defensive teams himself.

I would be really happy if Ball fell to us, forget about the family.

Lavar had his 15 minutes of fame trying to get his brand name out there, can't knock a guy for that.

I think whatever he says going forward will almost put him into that Tim Tebow / Johnny Manziel category of sporting figures who have no relevance to on the court play yet keep reappearing in the news due to the public's hypocritical view of fascination and disgust at these people at the same time.

Nobody cares what Lavar Ball has to say, yet everyone seems to know all the stuff he has been saying. Just don't read too much into it. He's just a walking and talking pop-up ad for his overpriced and soon to be out of business clothing line

If KJ McDaniels had the ability that Lonzo has would you care about what his mom was saying?

[Unbreakable99]

Reports keep saying the Lakers were not impressed with Ball. If this is true then we might really have a chance at getting Ball which would infuriate 30% of the fans and get 40% of the fans excited and the remaining 30% would be indifferent lol.

Do you live in the Philadelphia market? Bases on my experiences as a fan in this market, those percentages are very optimistic. Lonzo Ball could be better than Michael Jordan, and the fanbase would still be anti-Ball, due to the attention his father gets.

Not anymore but I listen to Philly radio and stay up to what's going on. I hear people nervous about getting Ball because of his dad and want to stay away. Some don't mind his dad but don't like him as a player and want to stay away. But you have others who do like him a lot and would love him on the Sixers. I know I would love him on the Sixers.

[smittybanton]

Why are you assuming I'm basing my entire evaluation of Leaf's defense on his wingspan? He was a visually poor defender at UCLA. So was Tim Hardaway in Atlanta this year and you seem to be under the impression that he's a good defender, too. What gives?

What gives is that you and I see defense vastly different in a lot of players, I think. Plain and simple. I've noticed that your assessments of defense are fairly binary (although the one on Baldwin is quite measured, I must admit). You don't think holding players to a low field goal percentage, especially as you get closer to the rim, means anything. Your'e entitled. I do. On the other hand, I put less value in steals, wingspan and team ratings (unless circumstances say for some reason that the context is the same between the two players). Then there's the eye-test, which is necessarily different one person to the next.

I guess the question really should be, why wouldn't we see players differently, if there's anything fun to evaluating players at all?

Cheers!

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out this TJ Leaf fascination you have. He's the most ordinary of College talents you will ever find, projected in the 1st round of an NBA draft. He's​ a decent shooter and isn't plus in anything else including athleticism. He'll be lucky to carve be out a career as good as Nick Collison, in the NBA.

When I went on about Dejounte Murray last year, our good friend and certified draftnik Derek Bodner went on to call him Donotwante Murray. Why would I let what a bunch of folks on the internet influence my opinion, when every single solitary year we see players excel in the NBA who did not "fit the mold"? When draftniks and GMs are routinely wrong about who is nice? I've been watching basketball over forty years, and I like TJ Leaf. If I'm wrong, you'll have years to scold me. Lol.

Anyway, watch the first UCLA game against Kentucky. The shooting, the passing, the headiness. Then watch him try to bang on both Edrice Adebayo and DeAaron Fox at the same damn time! He doesn't make it, they squeeze him, I think he got fouled.
We're talking a nice outside game, lovely passing, nice ballhandling, with a healthy disrespect for his opponents. Love it. Gimme!!!

[LongLiveHinkie]

I wonder if the Lakers view Lonzo's introverted, reserved demeanor as a negative trait.

Pretentious mumbo jumbo. Everyone thinks they are a psychoanalyst some draft time. Happens in the NFL too. Asking weird questions about what players would do if they killed someone. Do they find their moms hot. Weird nutty stuff like that. They think they are these slick psychologists who can analyze players.

You can't judge a player on his demeanor, it's ridiculous. If they pass on Ball because he's "quiet" then Magic has failed already as a GM.

[shawn_hemp]

I think Philly would actually be a good place for the Ball camp to land on because Lavar will be staying in Cali mainly to transition his other sons to the next respective levels and Lonzo would be across the country and doing his own thing.

If Lonzo plays 41 games in LA each year, that's a lot more Lavar you'll be seeing

[LloydFree]

What gives is that you and I see defense vastly different in a lot of players, I think. Plain and simple. I've noticed that your assessments of defense are fairly binary (although the one on Baldwin is quite measured, I must admit). You don't think holding players to a low field goal percentage, especially as you get closer to the rim, means anything. Your'e entitled. I do. On the other hand, I put less value in steals, wingspan and team ratings (unless circumstances say for some reason that the context is the same between the two players). Then there's the eye-test, which is necessarily different one person to the next.

I guess the question really should be, why wouldn't we see players differently, if there's anything fun to evaluating players at all?

Cheers!

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out this TJ Leaf fascination you have. He's the most ordinary of College talents you will ever find, projected in the 1st round of an NBA draft. He's​ a decent shooter and isn't plus in anything else including athleticism. He'll be lucky to carve be out a career as good as Nick Collison, in the NBA.

When I went on about Dejounte Murray last year, our good friend and certified draftnik Derek Bodner went on to call him Donotwante Murray. Why would I let what a bunch of folks on the internet influence my opinion, when every single solitary year we see players excel in the NBA who did not "fit the mold"? When draftniks and GMs are routinely wrong about who is nice? I've been watching basketball over forty years, and I like TJ Leaf. If I'm wrong, you'll have years to scold me. Lol.

Anyway, watch the first UCLA game against Kentucky. The shooting, the passing, the headiness. Then watch him try to bang on both Edrice Adebayo and DeAaron Fox at the same damn time! He doesn't make it, they squeeze him, I think he got fouled.
We're talking a nice outside game, lovely passing, nice ballhandling, with a healthy disrespect for his opponents. Love it. Gimme!!!

You're​ not supposed to let draftniks influence what you think about a player. Dbodner doesn't know any more than you. And I wasn't chastising you for liking TJ Leaf. I said what I don't like about his potential. I just don't see what he does that is exceptional, that is over and above his peers and translatable to the NBA.

[smittybanton]

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out this TJ Leaf fascination you have. He's the most ordinary of College talents you will ever find, projected in the 1st round of an NBA draft. He's​ a decent shooter and isn't plus in anything else including athleticism. He'll be lucky to carve be out a career as good as Nick Collison, in the NBA.

When I went on about Dejounte Murray last year, our good friend and certified draftnik Derek Bodner went on to call him Donotwante Murray. Why would I let what a bunch of folks on the internet influence my opinion, when every single solitary year we see players excel in the NBA who did not "fit the mold"? When draftniks and GMs are routinely wrong about who is nice? I've been watching basketball over forty years, and I like TJ Leaf. If I'm wrong, you'll have years to scold me. Lol.

Anyway, watch the first UCLA game against Kentucky. The shooting, the passing, the headiness. Then watch him try to bang on both Edrice Adebayo and DeAaron Fox at the same damn time! He doesn't make it, they squeeze him, I think he got fouled.
We're talking a nice outside game, lovely passing, nice ballhandling, with a healthy disrespect for his opponents. Love it. Gimme!!!

Your not supposed to let draftniks influence what you think about a player. Dbodner doesn't know any more than you. And I wasn't chastising you for liking TJ Leaf. I just don't see what he does that is exceptional, that is over and above his peers and translatable to the NBA.

I offered that up. I don't know what else to say. I"m going to continue hyping him up. TJ Leaf reminds me of Tom Guggliotta. That's what started today's morass. I stand by it. Y'all could always ignore the rantings of a crazy person if you deem it so. Lol.

[GabeCerebro]

A few of us have been saying it all year, Lonzo's catch and shoot ability and low-maintenance 18% usage makes him the most seamless fit with Embiid/Simmons of all the top prospects. Him falling to #3 would be incredible.

Yup. I'm hoping we leave the draft with him.