Draft Discussion Part 3

[Saberestar]

Watch on YouTube

[LukasBMW]

If Ball makes it, we'll all be like: "He had such great vision! How could the Suns overlook it! We should have traded up!"
If Ball becomes a bust we'll all be like: "I knew he was too slow and had the terrible shot!"

If Fox makes it, we'll all be like: "His speed was elite and he was a monster on defense. How could we not take him!?"
If Fox becomes a bust we'll all be like: "He had no outside shot, why did we draft a player with a terrible shot? WTF!!!"

If Jackson makes it, we'll all be like: "His motor, skill set, and fire was obvious! How could we pass on him! The Suns are idiots!"
If Jackson becomes a bust we'll all be like: "He was a headcase with a questionable shot! What a loser!"

If Tatum makes it, we'll all be like: "He was the next Carmelo! How did we blow something this obvious! Ryan should be fired!"
If Tatum becomes a bust we'll all be like: "We all knew he was too slow to make it in the NBA! Why did we draft him!"

If Isaac makes it, we'll all be like: "He had such versatility for a big guy and was a perfect fit for today's NBA! Obvi!!!"
If Isaac becomes a bust we'll all be like: "Tweener with no position. Terrible pick. Suns are clueless!"

If Monk makes it, we'll all be like: "How could we not see that he was NOTHING like Brandon Knight!!!!! FML"
If Monk becomes a bust we'll all be like: "How could we not see that he was the NEXT Brandon Knight!!!! FML"

Meanwhile Rabb drops to the Spurs at 29 and somehow becomes an allstar and perfect front court compliment to Kawai.

[Saberestar]

http://www.scout.com/nba/mavericks/story/1784016-breakfast-club-mavs-in-italy-with-ntilikina

It seems that Ntilikina at #9 for Dallas is a real possibility.

Unless the scouting reports have missed some significant hole in Ntilikina's game... why is Fox ahead of him, exactly? Fox has had his D called into question by advanced stats and some scouts, his J is questionable at best and no one claims that he is an elite floor general. Is speed so much more valuable than everything Ntilikina is supposed to bring to the table?

A lot of more info and tape from Fox so scouts/GMs are more sure about what Fox brings to your team.

It is not only about speed...is high character, ball handling, winning mentality...all the people that has worked around Fox speaks really well about him (Team USA, High School, Kentucky) and that people is trusted. There are not so many deep info regarding Ntilikina so Fox is a better known commodity.

[DirtyDez]

Watch on YouTube

Excellent vid. Much easier format to watch then most of these YouTube scouting videos.

His ball-handling and defense are top-notch but I can't believe that shot goes in. I've tried shooting with a hitch like that and it's impossibly to judge the distance without a fluid release and touch. As some of the numbers indicate he simply couldn't hit contested 3's last year but is solid when wide open.

We'll see. This is why McD makes the big bucks.

[Saberestar]

With the NBA draft less than two weeks away, the Suns on Saturday morning got an up-close look at a prime candidate for their No. 4 selection, working out Duke forward Jayson Tatum in Los Angeles.

In addition to Tatum, the Suns are expected to consider Kentucky point guard De'Aaron Fox, Kansas small forward Josh Jackson and Florida State forward Jonathan Isaac.
That's assuming UCLA point guard Lonzo Ball doesn't fall.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2017/06/10/suns-work-out-dukes-jayson-tatum-los-angeles/387017001/

[Zelaznyrules]

http://www.scout.com/nba/mavericks/story/1784016-breakfast-club-mavs-in-italy-with-ntilikina

It seems that Ntilikina at #9 for Dallas is a real possibility.

Unless the scouting reports have missed some significant hole in Ntilikina's game... why is Fox ahead of him, exactly? Fox has had his D called into question by advanced stats and some scouts, his J is questionable at best and no one claims that he is an elite floor general. Is speed so much more valuable than everything Ntilikina is supposed to bring to the table?

The scouting reports indicate some significant holes in Ntilikina's game too not to mention some very uninspiring stats from his French and Champion League play. Also, isn't there a lot of concern over his lack of quickness? To me, that's the scariest of red flags when you're looking at a player transitioning into the NBA at a guard position.

[sunsbum]

http://www.scout.com/nba/mavericks/story/1784016-breakfast-club-mavs-in-italy-with-ntilikina

It seems that Ntilikina at #9 for Dallas is a real possibility.

Unless the scouting reports have missed some significant hole in Ntilikina's game... why is Fox ahead of him, exactly? Fox has had his D called into question by advanced stats and some scouts, his J is questionable at best and no one claims that he is an elite floor general. Is speed so much more valuable than everything Ntilikina is supposed to bring to the table?

The scouting reports indicate some significant holes in Ntilikina's game too not to mention some very uninspiring stats from his French and Champion League play. Also, isn't there a lot of concern over his lack of quickness? To me, that's the scariest of red flags when you're looking at a player transitioning into the NBA at a guard position.

Ntilikina looks slow to me.

[jcsunsfan]

Unless the scouting reports have missed some significant hole in Ntilikina's game... why is Fox ahead of him, exactly? Fox has had his D called into question by advanced stats and some scouts, his J is questionable at best and no one claims that he is an elite floor general. Is speed so much more valuable than everything Ntilikina is supposed to bring to the table?

The scouting reports indicate some significant holes in Ntilikina's game too not to mention some very uninspiring stats from his French and Champion League play. Also, isn't there a lot of concern over his lack of quickness? To me, that's the scariest of red flags when you're looking at a player transitioning into the NBA at a guard position.

Ntilikina looks slow to me.

Same to me.

[carey]

The scouting reports indicate some significant holes in Ntilikina's game too not to mention some very uninspiring stats from his French and Champion League play. Also, isn't there a lot of concern over his lack of quickness? To me, that's the scariest of red flags when you're looking at a player transitioning into the NBA at a guard position.

Ntilikina looks slow to me.

Same to me.

Me as well. I watched all the videos in the article linked above and I can tell you without question Fox would run circles around him. He's not Kendall Marshall slow but I fail to see the Ntilikina hype other than measurables. In a bit he is like Bender in that regard.

[bwgood77]

http://www.scout.com/nba/mavericks/story/1784016-breakfast-club-mavs-in-italy-with-ntilikina

It seems that Ntilikina at #9 for Dallas is a real possibility.

Unless the scouting reports have missed some significant hole in Ntilikina's game... why is Fox ahead of him, exactly? Fox has had his D called into question by advanced stats and some scouts, his J is questionable at best and no one claims that he is an elite floor general. Is speed so much more valuable than everything Ntilikina is supposed to bring to the table?

A lot of more info and tape from Fox so scouts/GMs are more sure about what Fox brings to your team.

It is not only about speed...is high character, ball handling, winning mentality...all the people that has worked around Fox speaks really well about him (Team USA, High School, Kentucky) and that people is trusted. There are not so many deep info regarding Ntilikina so Fox is a better known commodity.

Yes, definitely more info about Fox, and people seeing him here play for the highest profile college team, despite suspect stats, gets high marks for character and speed. I think Fox has a winning attitude, great speed, energy and defensive intensity. And he likes to score by himself. He doesn't get many assists or shoot well.

I can't speak positively or negatively about Ntilikina because I don't know enough, but I can say that his quickness wouldn't be that big of a concern to me (if that concern is valid), especially in relation to Fox if he really could hit the 3 at that 40%+ rate and showed good court vision and passing.

Much like Bender, there are unknowns (though you knew and saw how special Bender was in tape), and he could be special, but it remains to be seen on an NBA court, like it was with Bender.

[Damkac]

Not sure who this guy is but supposedly it's good info on many prospects

https://sethsdrafthouse.com/finch-returns-to-dish-on-nba-prospects-fa57b7c494ef

Confirms a lot of my impressions - that Jordan Bell should go mid-first (not that he will), that DSJ is a terrifying selection, that Josh Jackson could be Corey Brewer, and that Tatum should go no lower than #4.

I've been moving back toward Tatum as BPA. My concern has been and remains TJ - I don't think you can fit Tatum and TJ on this roster without killing DJJ's and Bender's development.

Don't wanted Monk and Smith, now I don't want them even more. It's interesting that he thinks Fox's main weakness is his size and strength, not his shooting.

IMO having Tatum and TJ won't be a problem if you develop Bender into a center:
SF TJ/Tatum
PF Chriss/Tatum/Bender
C Bender/??

When/if Tatum will surpass TJ he will be starter and TJ will be his backup.
If we draft Jackson then he gets most of SF minutes and TJ plays some PF.

[Zelaznyrules]

Unless the scouting reports have missed some significant hole in Ntilikina's game... why is Fox ahead of him, exactly? Fox has had his D called into question by advanced stats and some scouts, his J is questionable at best and no one claims that he is an elite floor general. Is speed so much more valuable than everything Ntilikina is supposed to bring to the table?

A lot of more info and tape from Fox so scouts/GMs are more sure about what Fox brings to your team.

It is not only about speed...is high character, ball handling, winning mentality...all the people that has worked around Fox speaks really well about him (Team USA, High School, Kentucky) and that people is trusted. There are not so many deep info regarding Ntilikina so Fox is a better known commodity.

Yes, definitely more info about Fox, and people seeing him here play for the highest profile college team, despite suspect stats, gets high marks for character and speed. I think Fox has a winning attitude, great speed, energy and defensive intensity. And he likes to score by himself. He doesn't get many assists or shoot well.

I can't speak positively or negatively about Ntilikina because I don't know enough, but I can say that his quickness wouldn't be that big of a concern to me (if that concern is valid), especially in relation to Fox if he really could hit the 3 at that 40%+ rate and showed good court vision and passing.

Much like Bender, there are unknowns (though you knew and saw how special Bender was in tape), and he could be special, but it remains to be seen on an NBA court, like it was with Bender.

I've been hearing and reading about his lack of foot speed all season and that's come from multiple sources/sites so I have to believe there's a reason for that label. I don't think he needs to be as quick as Fox but I think he probably needs to be judged more as a shooting guard than a point guard with that kind of foot speed. Especially since one of the knocks against him has been his high dribble and propensity for being turned over when defended closely.

As for his 3 point shooting, it would be interesting to hear from someone who actually watches him play as to his shot and whether it will likely transfer to the NBA. Is he taking NBA distance 3's or feasting off of the shorter line?

[bwgood77]

A lot of more info and tape from Fox so scouts/GMs are more sure about what Fox brings to your team.

It is not only about speed...is high character, ball handling, winning mentality...all the people that has worked around Fox speaks really well about him (Team USA, High School, Kentucky) and that people is trusted. There are not so many deep info regarding Ntilikina so Fox is a better known commodity.

Yes, definitely more info about Fox, and people seeing him here play for the highest profile college team, despite suspect stats, gets high marks for character and speed. I think Fox has a winning attitude, great speed, energy and defensive intensity. And he likes to score by himself. He doesn't get many assists or shoot well.

I can't speak positively or negatively about Ntilikina because I don't know enough, but I can say that his quickness wouldn't be that big of a concern to me (if that concern is valid), especially in relation to Fox if he really could hit the 3 at that 40%+ rate and showed good court vision and passing.

Much like Bender, there are unknowns (though you knew and saw how special Bender was in tape), and he could be special, but it remains to be seen on an NBA court, like it was with Bender.

I've been hearing and reading about his lack of foot speed all season and that's come from multiple sources/sites so I have to believe there's a reason for that label. I don't think he needs to be as quick as Fox but I think he probably needs to be judged more as a shooting guard than a point guard with that kind of foot speed. Especially since one of the knocks against him has been his high dribble and propensity for being turned over when defended closely.

As for his 3 point shooting, it would be interesting to hear from someone who actually watches him play as to his shot and whether it will likely transfer to the NBA. Is he taking NBA distance 3's or feasting off of the shorter line?

Can you link to the stuff about lack of foot speed? Thanks. Ultimately is doesn't matter because there is close to zero chance we draft him based on our position but I'm curious.

[Worst_to_First]

Hope you guys manage to land Josh Jackson in this draft. JJ and Booker could end up being a better version of Sprewell and Houston that led us to the Finals back in '99.

[bwgood77]

Hope you guys manage to land Josh Jackson in this draft. JJ and Booker could end up being a better version of Sprewell and Houston that led us to the Finals back in '99.

I think a lot of us hope for that but our thoughts as a forum are all over the place. And damn, I forgot Sprewell even played for the Knicks, which is bad, because I usually remember my history well. But being in the west, that stuff sticks much more, so I remember him on GS and MIN.

I hope you guys get a difference maker too as you deserve some success and happy times after some hard times of late as do we.

[thamadkant]

Spree and Houston combo was one of the better paired SGs that worked well. Kobe and Eddie Jones another.

Josh Jackson fixes defense and ball movement IMO so he's my first choice... Maybe tied with Ball.

[thamadkant]

McD has been collecting assets for a while now...

I think its time to start putting a team that fits well and will form good synergy going forward.

Bledsoe does not fit with Booker nor Warren. Too many Isolation plays with Bledsoe at the helm and Booker has now become another go to guy... So its a two man show offensively which teams figured out and hence Suns loss column piled up early and lasted the entire season.


Booker and Warren also do not fit... Because both need the ball. But I'm more OK with this becsuse Warren can take a back seat and become 6th man or a slasher.

Barbosa needs to go... Tunnel vision and isolation player as well. Knight... We all know already.



Suns need catch and shoot players who play defense and move the ball well. Jackson and Ball are it.

[MathiasPW]

Can you link to the stuff about lack of foot speed? Thanks. Ultimately is doesn't matter because there is close to zero chance we draft him based on our position but I'm curious.

Its actually in the dx video, when it mentions how he has a hard time turning the corner on(over?) his defender.

He has long legs and long strides, so he covers a lot of ground , but it definitely seems as he moves slowly.

[JMac1]

I really don't get it......GS ball movement is created by the threat of Steph's shooting. When you send two guys to trap (like they did with Nash), someone is open; and if that somone can shoot, a defender is running over to him like mad, then someone else is open, and so on and so on.

No one traps Bledsoe off of screen and rolls.....sometimes Booker when he is on. Please explain to me way Jackson is going to be Magic passing all over the place?

They are going to D Jackson straight-up and everyone else is going to stick with their man and Jackson is going to be like Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, and TJ...

It's the threat of the Ball handler that forces double-teams that open up the passing....not a player can pass. Fast break passing is different though. Overall its still based on finding an open guy to pass to.

[JMac1]

McD has been collecting assets for a while now...

I think its time to start putting a team that fits well and will form good synergy going forward.

Bledsoe does not fit with Booker nor Warren. Too many Isolation plays with Bledsoe at the helm and Booker has now become another go to guy... So its a two man show offensively which teams figured out and hence Suns loss column piled up early and lasted the entire season.


Booker and Warren also do not fit... Because both need the ball. But I'm more OK with this becsuse Warren can take a back seat and become 6th man or a slasher.

Barbosa needs to go... Tunnel vision and isolation player as well. Knight... We all know already.



Suns need catch and shoot players who play defense and move the ball well. Jackson and Ball are it.

They may catch and shoot, but making it maybe a different story. Monk is catch shoot and make.