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M-C-G wrote:NMB2420 wrote:Any chance Semi could play SG in the Bucks system?
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Given that Middleton, Snell, Vaughn, Terry, Brogdon, Dova and Giannis all played some minutes there this year, I'd say, yes, but if the question is can he guard the SG position well enough, my answer is I don't know
skones wrote:M-C-G wrote:Zach Collins fans, I just don't see it. How well did the rebounding and blocks hold up against NBA length? Watching his DX and just feel like NBA length is going to be a big problem for him at the 5, even with his 9'3 standing reach. Or do you guys see him as a 4?
It seems like every single prospect in college basketball has a weakness "going up against NBA length." It makes complete sense, going up against length in the NCAA isn't the overall norm, thus it's a different look, a more difficult one, and it's a reasonable expectation that there is a struggle at that stage. I don't have any hard numbers on it, but I'd suspect that if you look at all prospects numbers going against legitimate length they'd show a statistical downturn. It's pretty hard to argue against the overall 67.2% from the field Collins posted on two point shots.
M-C-G wrote:skones wrote:M-C-G wrote:Zach Collins fans, I just don't see it. How well did the rebounding and blocks hold up against NBA length? Watching his DX and just feel like NBA length is going to be a big problem for him at the 5, even with his 9'3 standing reach. Or do you guys see him as a 4?
It seems like every single prospect in college basketball has a weakness "going up against NBA length." It makes complete sense, going up against length in the NCAA isn't the overall norm, thus it's a different look, a more difficult one, and it's a reasonable expectation that there is a struggle at that stage. I don't have any hard numbers on it, but I'd suspect that if you look at all prospects numbers going against legitimate length they'd show a statistical downturn. It's pretty hard to argue against the overall 67.2% from the field Collins posted on two point shots.
Sure, but not every prospect on DX goes out of their way to highlight the struggles. In general, that's one of the things that I try to look at with every center prospect, how they handle length. I think it is a real concern. And while that is a great FG%, I can't ignore that Gonzaga conference seems to have a lot of smaller programs, which I am guessing have more 6'8 type centers than 7 footers.
skones wrote:M-C-G wrote:skones wrote:
It seems like every single prospect in college basketball has a weakness "going up against NBA length." It makes complete sense, going up against length in the NCAA isn't the overall norm, thus it's a different look, a more difficult one, and it's a reasonable expectation that there is a struggle at that stage. I don't have any hard numbers on it, but I'd suspect that if you look at all prospects numbers going against legitimate length they'd show a statistical downturn. It's pretty hard to argue against the overall 67.2% from the field Collins posted on two point shots.
Sure, but not every prospect on DX goes out of their way to highlight the struggles. In general, that's one of the things that I try to look at with every center prospect, how they handle length. I think it is a real concern. And while that is a great FG%, I can't ignore that Gonzaga conference seems to have a lot of smaller programs, which I am guessing have more 6'8 type centers than 7 footers.
That's not unique at all. Hell, Wisconsin is a good program and deploys a 6'9 center in Ethan Happ. For me personally, I feel like it's a fall back criticism in a lot of DX scouting reports. I'd give the stance more clout if, again, he wasn't shooting 67% inside the arc. Your'e not drafting Collins with the idea that he's going to be scoring a ton on the low block anyway. There's a lot of stretch promise there. That's 74% plus from the FT line is one such indicator.
M-C-G wrote:skones wrote:M-C-G wrote:
Sure, but not every prospect on DX goes out of their way to highlight the struggles. In general, that's one of the things that I try to look at with every center prospect, how they handle length. I think it is a real concern. And while that is a great FG%, I can't ignore that Gonzaga conference seems to have a lot of smaller programs, which I am guessing have more 6'8 type centers than 7 footers.
That's not unique at all. Hell, Wisconsin is a good program and deploys a 6'9 center in Ethan Happ. For me personally, I feel like it's a fall back criticism in a lot of DX scouting reports. I'd give the stance more clout if, again, he wasn't shooting 67% inside the arc. Your'e not drafting Collins with the idea that he's going to be scoring a ton on the low block anyway. There's a lot of stretch promise there. That's 74% plus from the FT line is one such indicator.
Fair enough. So you do see him as a 5 though in the pros?
Gery Woelfel wrote:Got a time big boy?
Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, I'm probably in the minority but not a huge Collins fan. All the write-ups I read always reference his dominating performance against South Carolina in the tournament, and I can't help but not be that impressed in dominating an undersized front court with their starting C measuring at 6'9.
Think that his jumper is translatable and most of his upside is coming from his potential as a stretch-5, but I'm not entirely convinced he'll be able to do true "big man" things at a good enough level to warrant how high he'll go. The "struggles against NBA length" thing isn't just an all-encompassing term for any PF/C prospect, it's a legitimate concern for him IMO.
skones wrote:M-C-G wrote:skones wrote:
That's not unique at all. Hell, Wisconsin is a good program and deploys a 6'9 center in Ethan Happ. For me personally, I feel like it's a fall back criticism in a lot of DX scouting reports. I'd give the stance more clout if, again, he wasn't shooting 67% inside the arc. Your'e not drafting Collins with the idea that he's going to be scoring a ton on the low block anyway. There's a lot of stretch promise there. That's 74% plus from the FT line is one such indicator.
Fair enough. So you do see him as a 5 though in the pros?
In the modern NBA, absolutely. I think he's a smart player who needs seasoning. He's the highest IQ big in the draft. He leaves his feet early at times, but seems to have an overall good feel for space and rotations given his stage in development. With more experience, I think that gets ironed out.
NMB2420 wrote:I think Jordan Bell brings qualities that every winning team needs. My only worry is whether or not he can develop a jump shot.
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jschligs wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't know who the **** SupremeHustle is?
SupremeHustle wrote:
Admittedly I'm just a fan of the sport, but from what I've seen I'd take Jackson over Ball, too. I think Jackson/Ingram could be a great forward duo.
Gery Woelfel wrote:Got a time big boy?
Prez wrote:Ya Jackson makes much more sense for LA than Ball imo. Hoping Ball falls to Phoenix, he and Booker would be filthy offensively. But I doubt Philly passes him up.
skones wrote:Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, I'm probably in the minority but not a huge Collins fan. All the write-ups I read always reference his dominating performance against South Carolina in the tournament, and I can't help but not be that impressed in dominating an undersized front court with their starting C measuring at 6'9.
Think that his jumper is translatable and most of his upside is coming from his potential as a stretch-5, but I'm not entirely convinced he'll be able to do true "big man" things at a good enough level to warrant how high he'll go. The "struggles against NBA length" thing isn't just an all-encompassing term for any PF/C prospect, it's a legitimate concern for him IMO.
What makes it a legitimate concern for him more than anyone else?
Ron Swanson wrote:skones wrote:Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, I'm probably in the minority but not a huge Collins fan. All the write-ups I read always reference his dominating performance against South Carolina in the tournament, and I can't help but not be that impressed in dominating an undersized front court with their starting C measuring at 6'9.
Think that his jumper is translatable and most of his upside is coming from his potential as a stretch-5, but I'm not entirely convinced he'll be able to do true "big man" things at a good enough level to warrant how high he'll go. The "struggles against NBA length" thing isn't just an all-encompassing term for any PF/C prospect, it's a legitimate concern for him IMO.
What makes it a legitimate concern for him more than anyone else?
Good but not great physical tools, sometimes inconsistent energy and motor. He's got good agility but lacks explosiveness. At C he has really good mobility, but at PF (which is what I think he is), it's less of a strength. Not overly strong but he's only 19 so that's probably the least of my concerns.
I'm just not sold on him when people go so far as to say he's a top-10 talent. Lack of elite length or elite athleticism makes me wonder how he's going to score in the paint without the benefit of a refined post game, which sure, he could absolutely develop over time. It's not something I'd bank on though. I think he's more Andray Blatche than Pau Gasol. Lazy white guy comparison is Meyers Leonard.
Can't stop picturing a buddy cop movie with him and Vivek. Rush Hour 4: Mumbai Madness.M-C-G wrote:Prez wrote:Ya Jackson makes much more sense for LA than Ball imo. Hoping Ball falls to Phoenix, he and Booker would be filthy offensively. But I doubt Philly passes him up.
Come on, Ball in Sacramento would be amazing. Lavar Ball and that front office? Must see TV
Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, I'm probably in the minority but not a huge Collins fan. All the write-ups I read always reference his dominating performance against South Carolina in the tournament, and I can't help but not be that impressed in dominating an undersized front court with their starting C measuring at 6'9.
Think that his jumper is translatable and most of his upside is coming from his potential as a stretch-5, but I'm not entirely convinced he'll be able to do true "big man" things at a good enough level to warrant how high he'll go. The "struggles against NBA length" thing isn't just an all-encompassing term for any PF/C prospect, it's a legitimate concern for him IMO.
chonestown wrote:Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, I'm probably in the minority but not a huge Collins fan. All the write-ups I read always reference his dominating performance against South Carolina in the tournament, and I can't help but not be that impressed in dominating an undersized front court with their starting C measuring at 6'9.
Think that his jumper is translatable and most of his upside is coming from his potential as a stretch-5, but I'm not entirely convinced he'll be able to do true "big man" things at a good enough level to warrant how high he'll go. The "struggles against NBA length" thing isn't just an all-encompassing term for any PF/C prospect, it's a legitimate concern for him IMO.
Conversely, I think his big man things are what makes him the prospect he is. Not sure who here called him the pube-free version of Bogut, but it's a good comparison. He hasn't shown the passing skill of Bogut, but I see him bringing the same mix of ranginess and positional defense, while being a stellar rebounder. Moving ZCollins to the 4 negates his most immediate strengths.
M-C-G wrote:Zach Collins fans, I just don't see it. How well did the rebounding and blocks hold up against NBA length? Watching his DX and just feel like NBA length is going to be a big problem for him at the 5, even with his 9'3 standing reach. Or do you guys see him as a 4?
emunney wrote:Ron Swanson wrote: 9 YEARS!? like any of that matters
THAT LITERALLY IS HIS TENURE.