2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3

GFreak34 · Post #901 » by **GFreak34** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:47 pm

Ruzious wrote:
chonestown wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah, I'm probably in the minority but not a huge Collins fan. All the write-ups I read always reference his dominating performance against South Carolina in the tournament, and I can't help but not be that impressed in dominating an undersized front court with their starting C measuring at 6'9.

Think that his jumper is translatable and most of his upside is coming from his potential as a stretch-5, but I'm not entirely convinced he'll be able to do true "big man" things at a good enough level to warrant how high he'll go. The "struggles against NBA length" thing isn't just an all-encompassing term for any PF/C prospect, it's a legitimate concern for him IMO.

Conversely, I think his big man things are what makes him the prospect he is. Not sure who here called him the pube-free version of Bogut, but it's a good comparison. He hasn't shown the passing skill of Bogut, but I see him bringing the same mix of ranginess and positional defense, while being a stellar rebounder. Moving ZCollins to the 4 negates his most immediate strengths.

Yeah, you want Zach Collins around the basket more than on the perimeter. With his size and agility, he can just flip it in against a lot of centers - especially with NBA defenses really getting bad. It's nice to have versatility against teams with better defensive bigs. John Collins, otoh, will likely have to make the move to 4, and he's showing 3 point range AND ball-handling skills in a lot of the workouts. He's going to surprise people.

even though they re pretty similar, i like Hartenstein more.. can't explain why though.. maybe his ball handling.. dunno
In any case, i can agree that i 'd like a move on a big just to let Hawes and Monroe walk and direct the salary to some quality shooters.

Post #902 » by **ReasonablySober** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:00 pm

I need to update my rankings and get Bolden somewhere in there.

Gam · Post #903 » by **Gam** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:07 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:I need to update my rankings and get Bolden somewhere in there.

Yeah, Bolden is a top 20 prospect in this class. He'll for sure end up going in the first round.

chonestown · Post #904 » by **chonestown** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:34 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:I need to update my rankings and get Bolden somewhere in there.

M-C-G · Post #905 » by **M-C-G** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:30 pm

Nowak008 wrote:
M-C-G wrote:Zach Collins fans, I just don't see it. How well did the rebounding and blocks hold up against NBA length? Watching his DX and just feel like NBA length is going to be a big problem for him at the 5, even with his 9'3 standing reach. Or do you guys see him as a 4?

For me he checks all the boxes -

- Measurables - Good standing reach and legit 7 footer
- Has a good feel for the game, fluid player
- Extremely productive numbers - shooting percentages, rebounding, blocks - all are pretty great
- 19 years old

What else could you want? I have him 4th on my big board and honestly that still might be too low.

I want to know if he can do it against guys his size with the same or better standing standing reach. I'm not certain that he can, but admittedly don't watch a lot of college bball as much as just scan draft sites and scouting reports along with the discussion on these boards.

Also, did anyone get a vert on him, I noticed DX didn't have one listed for the athletic testing at the combine?

Fotis St · Post #906 » by **Fotis St** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:33 pm

Book it. Lock it. Wake up. Repeat after me .... At #17 Isaiah Hartenstein !!!

This is the best video of his skillset that I have found so far ... Amazing 6min 54sec video.

What is he ? I think he is a " 7fter Mobile Stretch Point 5" !!!

Watch on YouTube

Ron Swanson · Post #907 » by **Ron Swanson** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:35 pm

Wingspan matters as well when altering shots at angles, and Collins clocks in at pretty average (7'1) considering his height and standing reach. I keep hearing people say that he has borderline elite rim-protector potential and I just don't see it.

LuessiT · Post #908 » by **LuessiT** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:35 pm

Fotis St wrote:Book it. Lock it. Wake up. Repeat after me .... At #17 Isaiah Hartenstein !!!

This is the best video of his skillset that I have found so far ... Amazing 6min 54sec video.

What is he ? I think he is a " 7fter Mobile Stretch Point 5" !!!

Watch on YouTube

Can you stop with the hyperbole? Every guy you like is the next big thing.

RiotPunch · Post #909 » by **RiotPunch** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:39 pm

Flavor of the day Fotis.

Nowak008 · Post #910 » by **Nowak008** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:44 pm

M-C-G wrote:
I want to know if he can do it against guys his size with the same or better standing standing reach. I'm not certain that he can, but admittedly don't watch a lot of college bball as much as just scan draft sites and scouting reports along with the discussion on these boards.

Also, did anyone get a vert on him, I noticed DX didn't have one listed for the athletic testing at the combine?

With how the league is going small - it's important that he was able to destroy the tiny bigs for SC in the final 4. His size won't be a problem, it's not like you need him to be a back to the basket big like Monroe. I think he is a Cody Zeller type of player - who is a really really good player - with higher upside.

DingleJerry · Post #911 » by **DingleJerry** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:46 pm

Not getting into arguing about specific players here. But didn't we draft a stretch 5 last year who looks like he has a good chance right now? Plus we have Giannis already. Don't we drastically need more guard and wing depth, people that can create and make shots. I suppose if none of the guard/wings fall that you like, then sure take the best big available. Otherwise I'd rather take my big flyers in the 2nd round and hope to get lucky while prioritizing guards with the first pick. I mean, basically the whole league is sitting on a bunch of 7 footers they can't use, some with ridiculous contracts.

NMB2420 · Post #912 » by **NMB2420** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:48 pm

Gam wrote:
NMB2420 wrote:I think Jordan Bell brings qualities that every winning team needs. My only worry is whether or not he can develop a jump shot.

Sent from my AS985 using RealGM mobile app

Call me crazy, but I think he could work really nicely at the 4 with Thon or Giannis at the 5.

I am intrigued by those combinations as well. Would you consider him at 17 though?

Sent from my AS985 using RealGM mobile app

Gam · Post #913 » by **Gam** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:51 pm

LuessiT wrote:
Fotis St wrote:Book it. Lock it. Wake up. Repeat after me .... At #17 Isaiah Hartenstein !!!

This is the best video of his skillset that I have found so far ... Amazing 6min 54sec video.

What is he ? I think he is a " 7fter Mobile Stretch Point 5" !!!

Watch on YouTube

Can you stop with the hyperbole? Every guy you like is the next big thing.

TBF it looks like he was the only guy on the board high enough on Thon.

GFreak34 · Post #914 » by **GFreak34** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:52 pm

LuessiT wrote:
Fotis St wrote:Book it. Lock it. Wake up. Repeat after me .... At #17 Isaiah Hartenstein !!!

This is the best video of his skillset that I have found so far ... Amazing 6min 54sec video.

What is he ? I think he is a " 7fter Mobile Stretch Point 5"

Can you stop with the hyperbole? Every guy you like is the next big thing.

except that this guy really is. And he s proven himself against actual players in the Euroleague, not only in the college vacuum.. just saying

Gam · Post #915 » by **Gam** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:52 pm

NMB2420 wrote:
Gam wrote:
NMB2420 wrote:I think Jordan Bell brings qualities that every winning team needs. My only worry is whether or not he can develop a jump shot.

Sent from my AS985 using RealGM mobile app

Call me crazy, but I think he could work really nicely at the 4 with Thon or Giannis at the 5.

I am intrigued by those combinations as well. Would you consider him at 17 though?

Sent from my AS985 using RealGM mobile app

If Ike, Kennard, TJ Leaf, and Mitchell are all gone and the nobody drops I'd strongly consider it. Might take Patton or Hartenstein over him, I dunno.

GFreak34 · Post #916 » by **GFreak34** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:04 pm

DingleJerry wrote:Not getting into arguing about specific players here. But didn't we draft a stretch 5 last year who looks like he has a good chance right now? Plus we have Giannis already. Don't we drastically need more guard and wing depth, people that can create and make shots. I suppose if none of the guard/wings fall that you like, then sure take the best big available. Otherwise I'd rather take my big flyers in the 2nd round and hope to get lucky while prioritizing guards with the first pick. I mean, basically the whole league is sitting on a bunch of 7 footers they can't use, some with ridiculous contracts.

we did and still can get one more, especially if he s in a play-now mode like Hartenstein is and dump 18mil from Monroe + 12mil from Henson to save 30mil of salary for an actual move for a good shooter. You actually buy the prospect of a good PF/C for a contract of 2mil and at the same time you dump Henson.

Not to mention that with the 17th pick, the chances of a good choice at the SG/PG position are pretty slim.. Vaughn already proved it. So, unless Kennard is actually available (which i doubt), this guy is the best choice and then gamble on a shooter with the 2nd round pick - if Dorsey is available up there, then lets get him.

Fotis St · Post #917 » by **Fotis St** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:08 pm

LuessiT wrote:
Can you stop with the hyperbole? Every guy you like is the next big thing.

Is there any unfixable liability you can find on Hartenstein.

Watch the video and tell which one of the Centers candidates is even close to his skill level ...

1. He dives well and dunks with traffic
2. He shoots the 3 quite well, he will get even better.
3. He hustles for rebounds
4. His body is NBA ready
5. He looks good as a weakside help defender, blocks shots
6. He is really fast and agile for his size. The guy is running on his toes... just look at his mobility
7. He is smart on passing lanes gets deflections-steals and runs for the transition dunk cause of his handles
8. He has great court vision for his size, Jokic like, all kinds of passes in this video.
9. He rebounds and passes like quarterback for the home run, there are many Kevin Love to Lebron passes is on this video
10. He uses both hands to pass the ball, baseline corner 3 kick outs, full court passes, layups all with his off hand too.
11. Good shooting mechanics, 70+ FT%
12. Good motor, plays unselfish cause of his playmaking
13. He can attack closeouts, he can put the ball down and attack the bigs off the dribble
14. Great size, length, speed, age.

What else do you want from a 19 year old C at #17 ?
He separates himself from all other 10 Center candidates.

DingleJerry · Post #918 » by **DingleJerry** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:10 pm

GFreak34 wrote:
DingleJerry wrote:Not getting into arguing about specific players here. But didn't we draft a stretch 5 last year who looks like he has a good chance right now? Plus we have Giannis already. Don't we drastically need more guard and wing depth, people that can create and make shots. I suppose if none of the guard/wings fall that you like, then sure take the best big available. Otherwise I'd rather take my big flyers in the 2nd round and hope to get lucky while prioritizing guards with the first pick. I mean, basically the whole league is sitting on a bunch of 7 footers they can't use, some with ridiculous contracts.

we did and still can get one more, especially if he s in a play-now mode like Hartenstein is and dump 18mil from Monroe + 12mil from Henson to save 30mil of salary for an actual move for a good shooter. You actually buy the prospect of a good PF/C for a contract of 2mil and at the same time you dump Henson.

Not to mention that with the 17th pick, the chances of a good choice at the SG/PG position are pretty slim.. Vaughn already proved it. So, unless Kennard is actually available (which i doubt), this guy is the best choice and then gamble on a shooter with the 2nd round pick - if Dorsey is available up there, then lets get him.

I think I'd rather have the counter skillset for bigs rather than a clone. Thick, rebounding, defensive PnR rim runner. Try to cover as many skillsets as possible. But of course a lot of that comes down to their personal scouting and judgment on who they think is good

LuessiT · Post #919 » by **LuessiT** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:19 pm

Fotis St wrote:
LuessiT wrote:
Can you stop with the hyperbole? Every guy you like is the next big thing.

Is there any unfixable liability you can find on Hartenstein.

Watch the video and tell which one of the Centers candidates is even close to his skill level ...

1. He dives well and dunks with traffic
2. He shoots the 3 quite well, he will get even better.
3. He hustles for rebounds
4. His body is NBA ready
5. He looks good as a weakside help defender, blocks shots
6. He is really fast and agile for his size. The guy is running on his toes... just look at his mobility
7. He is smart on passing lanes gets deflections-steals and runs for the transition dunk cause of his handles
8. He has great court vision for his size, Jokic like, all kinds of passes in this video.
9. He rebounds and passes like quarterback for the home run, there are many Kevin Love to Lebron passes is on this video
10. He uses both hands to pass the ball, baseline corner 3 kick outs, full court passes, layups all with his off hand too.
11. Good shooting mechanics, 70+ FT%
12. Good motor, plays unselfish cause of his playmaking
13. He can attack closeouts, he can put the ball down and attack the bigs off the dribble
14. Great size, length, speed, age.

What else do you want from a 19 year old C at #17 ?
He separates himself from all other 10 Center candidates.

First off I like Hartenstein and I certainly would consider him at #17.

1. He does but he also doesn't always finish trough contact and he's not exceptionally athletic.
2. He has some shooting touch, but saying he shoots the 3 quite well is a big overstatement. He doesn't have consistent mechanics on his jumper. Needs a lot of work but there is some potential.
3. Agreed. Great, even physical rebounder. But he's also the biggest fish in a small pond and when facing guys like DeAndre Jordan that might change.
4. Agreed.
5. He's alright at it but definately not an elite shotblocker. Does have solid instincts but he doesn't have elite length or athleticism.
6. He's fluid but not an elite athlete.
7. He's got great handles but how valueable is that unless you want him to have the ball in his hands?
8. He has great court vision but he also always goes for the homerun play (and averages a lot of turnovers). Fixable? Maybe.
9. Is that a good thing?
10. Again, can he pull it off in the NBA without hurting his team?
11. I disagree. It is projectable that he will be able to shoot the 3 in the NBA but at which stage of his career and how good he'll be is totally up in the air.
12. His motor is wavering. Sometimes he gets fed up with himself or his teammates.
13. Again: Unless you are KAT, how important is that from the center position?
14. Great size for a 5, average length, average speed.

My main knock on Hartenstein is that you want him to have the ball in his hands and it's not clear yet how good he will be with it. He's either going to be a high usage guy that scores for you or pretty useless imo.

GFreak34 · Post #920 » by **GFreak34** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:29 pm

DingleJerry wrote:
GFreak34 wrote:
DingleJerry wrote:Not getting into arguing about specific players here. But didn't we draft a stretch 5 last year who looks like he has a good chance right now? Plus we have Giannis already. Don't we drastically need more guard and wing depth, people that can create and make shots. I suppose if none of the guard/wings fall that you like, then sure take the best big available. Otherwise I'd rather take my big flyers in the 2nd round and hope to get lucky while prioritizing guards with the first pick. I mean, basically the whole league is sitting on a bunch of 7 footers they can't use, some with ridiculous contracts.

we did and still can get one more, especially if he s in a play-now mode like Hartenstein is and dump 18mil from Monroe + 12mil from Henson to save 30mil of salary for an actual move for a good shooter. You actually buy the prospect of a good PF/C for a contract of 2mil and at the same time you dump Henson.

Not to mention that with the 17th pick, the chances of a good choice at the SG/PG position are pretty slim.. Vaughn already proved it. So, unless Kennard is actually available (which i doubt), this guy is the best choice and then gamble on a shooter with the 2nd round pick - if Dorsey is available up there, then lets get him.

I think I'd rather have the counter skillset for bigs rather than a clone. Thick, rebounding, defensive PnR rim runner. Try to cover as many skillsets as possible. But of course a lot of that comes down to their personal scouting and judgment on who they think is good

Yeah, with this i totally can agree with.. If only we could be the ones that made the move on Nurkic and dump Henson in the process too, would be sweet.