2017 Golden State Warriors Thread

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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#921 » by The-Power » Wed May 10, 2017 6:22 pm

JulesWinnfield wrote:All the talk about the "easy east", but I swear I've never seen a team so lucky as the warriors the last few years when it comes to playoff injuries. 2015 was a joke of epic proportions where literally everyone they played was hampered as well as potential threats who never even got to play them due to said injuries. And of course it culminated with the biggest break in the finals anyone has ever seen with the Cavs reduced to delly as Brons sidekick. Now this year it's Portland with no nurkic most of the way (he was a game changer for them). Then it's Utah without George hill. Now it's going to be San Antonio with a hampered Kawhi and no Parker, or Houston without nene

They are talented enough as it is. They don't need this endless stream of breaks. But warrior fans have the nerve to cry tears that steph was less than 100% last postseason (but still played, and was highly effective before the finals). This team just has the red carpet rolled out for them time after time in addition to being over the top talent wise. I'm awaiting the inevitable Kyrie or Kevin Love injury now

I really can't hear it anymore because it's silly to be blunt.

In 2013 Curry was visibly hurt against San Antonio in the second round - they lost in six games. The Warriors lost their entire C rotation in 2014 and lost to Clippers in Game 7. In 2016, Curry was injured twice in the postseason and missed games against Houston and Portland. The only reason they still came through was because they were still more talented / had better chemistry. Any normal team would have lost before the Finals and the season would have been a prime example of a title contender losing because of injury problems. Yet somehow people don't (want to) take this into account because the Warriors still advanced? Are they lucky because they are still good without their best player and therefore injuries to him don't count as much? If so, that's stupid. In the Finals, Bogut and Iguodala were out and Curry still hobbled (I mention this because you do the same with Kawhi). This year, Durant missed two games in the playoffs after being injured towards the end of the regular season. Just because the Warriors are still good without him doesn't mean there were no significant injury issues. But yes, tell me about being lucky.

In 2015 injuries were a joke? Well guess what, it was no exception. Injuries are a part of basketball - and playoff basketball in particular. Look at this year. Yes, the Blazers missed Nurkic and the Jazz Hill for two games. So the Warriors get 'an endless stream of breaks'? No, because this is something we see for most teams at this point in the season. Durant missed games against Portland. How about Griffin going down for the Clippers who lost in seven games to the Jazz? The Grizzlies lost in six games to San Antonio with Leonard going bonkers on Carter and Co. while Allen - their best perimeter defender - was out. Houston lost Nene, San Antonio Parker. Kawhi injured himself this game. By the way, which game was that? That's right, game 5. A game that the Warriors didn't have to play because they took care of business in four games. So every additional game increases the odds of somebody injuring himself? Breaking news. Again the Warriors are apparently lucky to be in the best position possible to close a series out early.

Let's look at the East this year. Cleveland's ECSF' opponent lost its best player in the middle of the series. So Cleveland was very fortunate I suppose, given that Hill has been counted as a major blow to the Jazz - and Lowry is clearly more important to the Raptors in comparison. The Bulls lost rondo after being convincingly up 2-0. I don't have to repeat the special cirucumstances Thomas and the Celtics are dealing with. Milwaukee gave Toronto a run for their money without Parker and with Middleton still not being in best shape. Did you know that Atlanta lost Korver in 2015 two games into the Conference Finals against the Cavaliers? He was their best offensive player that year. Oh, and that Carroll - when he was still good - got injured in the first game of the series? He was their best bet to slow James down. Both players were more important to Atlanta than Nene for Houston or Parker for the Spurs this year. Did you know Valanciunas did suffer an ankle injury before the ECF last year that caused him to sit out two games and not playing much after that? He was causing some problems for Cleveland in the few minutes he played.

But yes, the Warriors' red carpet lies on the ground - they just have to go over it. Maybe I should resort to what you did and generalize. So let me say this: LeBron stans are crying about the Warriors' fans allegedly crying and bringing up injuries while complaining about Warriors' fans bringing up injuries. Pretty ironic - don't you see that!? And of course LeBron's lucky breaks - and nothing else happened half a dozen times over the past three years since we apparently treat injuries of good role players as getting lucky breaks now - aren't mentioned while the Warriors' injuries in 2013, 2014, 2016 and 2017 are apparently not noteworthy, even if we're having a discussion about injuries and hobbled players, and when someone brings it up the immature reaction is "you don't get to mention injures as you have benefited from it in the past". Seriously, you guys should grow up, be objective, apply a consistent standard and realize that injuries are a part of the game for any team - and also realize that part of why the Warriors are healthy and rested these days has to do with them closing out series early and not having to play tough minutes towards the end of the RS by virtue of performing well before that. But I guess it's fine to mention injuries and complain about it on the one side but not the other. Keep up the good work, I don't know why I even bother anymore.

/rant over
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#922 » by JulesWinnfield » Wed May 10, 2017 6:58 pm

Warrior fans can try and deflect and make false equivalancies all they want until the cows come home. There are two irrefutable truths

1- Golden State is incredibly talented and has been championship caliber for 3 years running

2- they have also been blessed beyond belief on the injury front during playoff time when it comes to opponent injuries, including not just teams they faced, but avoiding threats that they didn't have to play because injuries bowed them out before hand..... and acting like Curry's boo boo last year (or in 2013, really?) evens that out is the definition of disingenuous and a false equivalency. Especially when the finals before they literally received the biggest break the league has ever seen

Both things are true. Deal with it. This topic isn't worthy of another keystroke because there is nothing to argue. Unless you are just a defensive warrior fan... Everything I said was right
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#923 » by GSP » Tue May 23, 2017 4:16 am

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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#924 » by GSP » Tue May 23, 2017 4:17 am

How would u guys break down the best player for each series?

Portland: Draymond
Jazz: Kd
Spurs: Steph/Kd dont think theres a clear one here
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#925 » by eminence » Tue May 23, 2017 4:48 am

GSP wrote:How would u guys break down the best player for each series?

Portland: Draymond
Jazz: Kd
Spurs: Steph/Kd dont think theres a clear one here


Blazers: Dray
Jazz: Dray
Spurs: Curry
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#926 » by Scizzup » Tue May 23, 2017 4:59 am

GSP wrote:How would u guys break down the best player for each series?

Portland: Draymond
Jazz: Kd
Spurs: Steph/Kd dont think theres a clear one here


PDX : Dray
Jazz; KD
Spurs; Curry. Curry TS this series is ridiculous, I know no Kawhi.
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#927 » by eminence » Tue May 23, 2017 6:08 am

Currently up to the 2nd highest ELO rating of all-time as well at 1850, behind only the '96 Bulls who hit 1853 after going up 3-0 on the Sonics in the finals.

If the Warriors win game one of the finals they likely set the record.
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#928 » by The-Power » Tue May 23, 2017 7:42 pm

GSP wrote:How would u guys break down the best player for each series?

Tough question but I'll try to answer it - fully aware that there are other possible rankings.

Portland: 1. Green, 2. Curry, 3. Nobody

Green has been spectacular, plain and simple. One of the best defensive series I have ever seen. The way he defended in 4th Quarters in particular was textbook and he single-handedly carried that defense at times. Not to mention that his offensive output has been great as well. Curry comes in 2nd with a top-notch offensive series - but Green has the edge on him with his spectacular defense. Nobody really deserves the second spot as the gap between those two and the next one was enourmous. Durant only played two games, McGee was awesome when he played but only played 49 minutes the entire series, Klay had a series to forget and Igoudala really struggled at times as well.

Utah: 1. Curry, 2. Green, 3. Durant

Feel really comfortable with Curry first. First of all, Curry has the highest on-court net rating among the four All-Stars (24.6), his off-court net rating was at -6.8 (nobody else's was lower than 8.6) and consequently his on/off dwarfs that of everyone else. Beyond PM numbers - which are highly volatile due to the small sample size -, Curry scored as many points as Durant (24.5 PPG) on clearly higher efficiency (67.6% TS to 60.8% TS) while providing more impact beyond that as well (playmaking, off-ball movement, creativity) although Durant deserves recognition for carrying the team to a victory when everybody else seemed off on offense. I don't believe Durant's impact on defense makes up for the gap on offense, though. Meanwhile Green's defense, while still very good and critical to win, wasn't as dominant as it was against Portland. Still an absolutely fantastic series on both ends that makes me rank him second.

San Antonio: 1. Curry, 2. Durant, 3. Green

Close between Curry and Durant with Green not too far behind. Curry put on an absolute scoring clinic with 31.5 PPG (in just 34.3 MPG) on 73% TS but so did Durant (28 PPG, 73.1% TS). Curry was disruptive in the passing lanes but struggled with his playmaking at times. I'm not basing this on assist numbers, as those don't really tell the story with Curry, but he has been sloppy towards the end of the series and deserves some blame for that. His defense was solid overall although in Game 4 yesterday he has been a bit too relaxed/annoyed. Durant was certainly the biggest mismatch that series and we see that in his PM numbers. A great argument can be made for Durant as the best player of the series, I'd have no qualms putting him first here. With Kawhi out, the Spurs never found a way to deal with Durant and he punished them. I still think Curry has been more of the driving force on offense and Durant's defense was good yet not elite overall. Not enough to put him ahead for me personally but it's certainly arguable to have him first. Green did a great job against Aldridge but the drop-off on offense without the suffocating defense he played against Portland have me rank him third here - reasonably close but still solidly behind the two other guys.

In terms of postseason MVP, Curry has overtaken Green's place he earned against Portland with the series against the Spurs - especially considering he, and Durant, showed up big time in the one game that was very close. Green, just like the team, increased his defensive intensity and was important to win that game but Curry gets the nod here for me and solidified his first spot in the 'MVP of the team'-ranking in the following games. Green is second with a chance to re-claim the first spot in case the Warriors win the series on the back of his defense. Durant has arrived in the playoffs and improved his play with each series. Still, he is a distant third at this point in my eyes and it will take an incredible series - especially on defense - to make up for the gap he still has due to the two missed games and the first two series in which Curry and Green dominated. If he can play close to the level he did against SA offensively with better defense then he might be able to make the jump, though.
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#929 » by The-Power » Tue May 23, 2017 7:58 pm

eminence wrote:Blazers: Dray
Jazz: Dray
Spurs: Curry

Surprised to see that. I'm almost positive you had Curry and Green neck-and-neck towards the end of the RS and recently I remember seeing a post in which you had Curry a tier ahead of Green (with Green still in your top 4, though). So I figured you probably ranked Curry ahead of Green against your Jazz. Since this doesn't seem to be the case, I'm even more curious now to read your take on Curry and Green. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts, so if you can find the time at any point over the summer I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on Curry vs. Green in 2017 (of course the Finals can shake things up quite a bit when players are already reasonably close).
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#930 » by eminence » Tue May 23, 2017 8:08 pm

The-Power wrote:
eminence wrote:Blazers: Dray
Jazz: Dray
Spurs: Curry

Surprised to see that. I'm almost positive you had Curry and Green neck-and-neck towards the end of the RS and recently I remember seeing a post in which you had Curry a tier ahead of Green (with Green still in your top 4, though). So I figured you probably ranked Curry ahead of Green against your Jazz. Since this doesn't seem to be the case, I'm even more curious now to read your take on Curry and Green. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts, so if you can find the time at any point over the summer I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on Curry vs. Green in 2017 (of course the Finals can shake things up quite a bit when players are already reasonably close).


Would love to expand sometime, for now though I will say the Jazz series was the only one I had any doubts over, Curry was certainly right there, and if I watched it again I might go his way. From your earlier post it looks like I'm a bit higher on Dray's defense in that series, as I generally felt it was about equal to his Portland series defensively (with fewer 4th quarter heroics).
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#931 » by The-Power » Tue May 23, 2017 8:14 pm

eminence wrote:Would love to expand sometime, for now though I will say the Jazz series was the only one I had any doubts over, Curry was certainly right there, and if I watched it again I might go his way. From your earlier post it looks like I'm a bit higher on Dray's defense in that series, as I generally felt it was about equal to his Portland series defensively (with fewer 4th quarter heroics).

Fair enough either way, I can see Green's argument over Curry against Utah - these two are fairly close regardless, imo. And to be sure, I definitely rate Green's defense against Utah highly. But, at least from the rudimentary impression you have when you only get to see each game once, I thought his defense against Portland was at an ATG level while his defense against Utah was 'merely' DPOY level; i.e. still very much comparable to other elite defensive big men of the past but not quite as good as against Portland when even the best defenders of all-time didn't reach that level of defensive impact consistently during the playoffs.
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#932 » by ceiling raiser » Thu May 25, 2017 8:49 pm

Just saw in the wiretap that Kerr still is unable to coach. I know a lot of the motion offense is ingrained into the players, but in the Finals, if he still is unavailable, wondering how much this could present an issue.

Brown seems more willing to attack mismatches (and that recent Lowe article discussed that the 3-1 PnR with KD/Curry might be something they're saving, presumably for the Finals), so in theory as long as he doesn't get too far away from the team offense (as long as it's not failing) he shouldn't be a problem. But I wonder if a poor decision to abandon motion early could cost them a game somewhere (or maybe the series if CLE gets hot?).
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#933 » by Statlanta » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:21 am

GOAT Team who knows?

But thanks to a Phoenix fan in the Warriors board we have this

Los Soles wrote:Final Results (unofficial — partial estimates)

'96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors — Elo Ratings

1) Peak Elo

  • Bulls: 1853
  • Warriors: 1865
2) End Elo

  • Bulls: 1823
  • Warriors: 1846
3) Average Elo

  • Bulls: 1770
  • Warriors: 1772
FINAL — Composite Elo

  • Bulls: 1815
  • Warriors: 1828 — average: (1865 + 1846 + 1772)/3


Objective stat for the argument that this team is the G.O.A.T.

The Greatest of All Time debate in basketball is essentially who has the greatest basketball resume of the player who has the best highlights instead of who is the best player
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#934 » by kayess » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:05 am

They're the GOAT team.
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#935 » by GSP » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:20 am

Iggy was absolutely incredible this game. Just near impossible to fathom to have a guy like that as ur 5th best player coming off the bench

West was also underrated all year. He is such a complete and skilled player even at this stage of his career gives them a good dimension. Zaza was terrible for the most part but when Kerr finally stopped giving him so many minutes Cavs didnt have much of a shot
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#936 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:35 pm

For me I see the Warriors as having revolutionary levels of off-ball impact. The vast majority of the league has been geared towards what a player can create with the ball in his hands, then having to share that ball between them. Hence on a team like the Big 3 Heat there were diminishing returns. With the Warriors it's crazy how all of their top 5 can impact the game without the ball in their hands. Curry's gravity has the greatest offensive impact when the ball isn't in his hands, of just about anyone to play. Draymond is the best defensive player in the league, a decent floor spacer and averages a lot of assists without ever seeming like he's holding it. Thompson when locked in on D like the Finals is one of the best 3 and D players in history because his floor spacing value is a lot higher than some other just good shooters like Danny Green or Jae Crowder, while still having strong defense. Durant is an elite floor spacer as one of the best shooting wings and overall perimeter threat level, while he played elite defense this year. Iguodala is a great defender and great off ball mover offensively and like Draymond passes without stopping the ball. The combination maximizes utility because even though there's only 1 ball the other 4 Warriors impact the game on each play both offensively and defensively.
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#937 » by clyde21 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:46 pm

Curry might be the GOAT off-ball player. His ability to play both on and off at such high levels enables so many different line ups and looks for us. He truly is the engine of this team and one of the greatest offensive generators of all time. I can only think of about a dozen or so players I'd rather start a team from scratch with.
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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#938 » by KD35Brah » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:27 am

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Re: 2017 Golden State Warriors Thread 

Post#939 » by GSP » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:43 am

KD35Brah wrote:
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early in the season they had struggles defensively with that lineup but Kd improved in that role much more as the season went

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