We're Not Beating the Warriors or Even the Cavs. The 20's Are Our Decade!

[Greenie]

Minnesota finally has Towns, though. Watch how quickly they turn into a playoff team.

All you need is that one guy. Not to win a title, but to make your team relevant. Some teams are really unlucky or just make poor decisions in the draft, and it takes them many years to move the needle. The Knicks/Phil, on the the other hand, got lucky/scouted well and made the right choice to land Porzingis their first time in the lottery.

So I don't like hearing that tanking/drafting is proven to not work and that the Knicks should steer away from it. Because it's already working for them, and now they just have to add complimentary pieces and develop. If and when they add that second young star, they can have a realistic path to contention.

well, it's more the conversation becomes pro-tank in a way where nothing else can work. and that we now play a game of losing.

you nailed it. the draft IS an inexact science. think of what we are suggesting.

draft your own big three... or four... or five, given how this arms race is going. this entails being bad on purpose for like half a decade and hoping you get your picks right and hoping you have some kind of leg to stand on to encourage winning, when it's time.

or... you always play to win, strive to win, and try to hit on the picks. if the key to the rebuild is hitting on the picks, then we should augment that with incremental improvement year over year. people like to cite the warriors. they got better every year and hit on their picks. then kept on the upward trajectory.

the reason why we keep bringing up minnesota, philly, phoenix is because they don't win. the only one to do anything recently was phoenix. we have the coach they did when they popped off a bit. the situation kind of fell through on some personal schidt and the bottom fell right back out. maybe jeff knows a thing or two about incremental improvement and leading young men? i am confident our current FO knows a thing or two about selecting talent.

the part i can't reconcile is how setting the team up to lose leads to the promised land. thus, i can't reconcile rooting for losses piling up from onset. last year, when it was clear we weren't going to pull back up, i rooted for the L column like everyone else, but i didn't root for the players to be bum asses, if that makes sense.

and you can't have it both ways. they can't be bums who get you top 3 AND be championship pieces.

THIS

If we still suck 2/3 years from now are the players that we think are these amazing prospects really that damn great? Nope.

That's how you become stuck in the lotto.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Minnesota finally has Towns, though. Watch how quickly they turn into a playoff team.

All you need is that one guy. Not to win a title, but to make your team relevant. Some teams are really unlucky or just make poor decisions in the draft, and it takes them many years to move the needle. The Knicks/Phil, on the the other hand, got lucky/scouted well and made the right choice to land Porzingis their first time in the lottery.

So I don't like hearing that tanking/drafting is proven to not work and that the Knicks should steer away from it. Because it's already working for them, and now they just have to add complimentary pieces and develop. If and when they add that second young star, they can have a realistic path to contention.

well, it's more the conversation becomes pro-tank in a way where nothing else can work. and that we now play a game of losing.

you nailed it. the draft IS an inexact science. think of what we are suggesting.

draft your own big three... or four... or five, given how this arms race is going. this entails being bad on purpose for like half a decade and hoping you get your picks right and hoping you have some kind of leg to stand on to encourage winning, when it's time.

or... you always play to win, strive to win, and try to hit on the picks. if the key to the rebuild is hitting on the picks, then we should augment that with incremental improvement year over year. people like to cite the warriors. they got better every year and hit on their picks. then kept on the upward trajectory.

the reason why we keep bringing up minnesota, philly, phoenix is because they don't win. the only one to do anything recently was phoenix. we have the coach they did when they popped off a bit. the situation kind of fell through on some personal schidt and the bottom fell right back out. maybe jeff knows a thing or two about incremental improvement and leading young men? i am confident our current FO knows a thing or two about selecting talent.

the part i can't reconcile is how setting the team up to lose leads to the promised land. thus, i can't reconcile rooting for losses piling up from onset. last year, when it was clear we weren't going to pull back up, i rooted for the L column like everyone else, but i didn't root for the players to be bum asses, if that makes sense.

and you can't have it both ways. they can't be bums who get you top 3 AND be championship pieces.

THIS

If we still suck 2/3 years from now are the players that we think are these amazing prospects really that damn great? Nope.

That's how you become stuck in the lotto.

It's insane circular logic.

Go ahead and tell KP, or ANY young player:

"We gonna be trash for your whole rookie contract. Like, a total joke and laughingstock for your entire rookie deal. But wink wink, we gonna draft a litter of universal soldiers who can't get better, but we'll magically start winning when there are 6 of you."

Nobody wants to spend their careers as bums. They all rich. Most of them want to compete.

[Jeff Van Gully]

KP isn't busting his ass in the gym and frying his little chicken legs to Hot 97 because he wants to play like garbage on a garbage team.

He want it.

[dakomish23]

If the Knicks rolled it over they could of given CLE a run for their money by signing CP3 & Millsap.

CP3
Monk or Frank
Melo
Millsap
WHG

Not bad

[Jeff Van Gully]

If the Knicks rolled it over they could of given CLE a run for their money by signing CP3 & Millsap.

CP3
Monk or Frank
Melo
Millsap
WHG

Not bad

KP not on this team any longer?

[Jeff Van Gully]

Minnesota finally has Towns, though. Watch how quickly they turn into a playoff team.

All you need is that one guy. Not to win a title, but to make your team relevant. Some teams are really unlucky or just make poor decisions in the draft, and it takes them many years to move the needle. The Knicks/Phil, on the the other hand, got lucky/scouted well and made the right choice to land Porzingis their first time in the lottery.

So I don't like hearing that tanking/drafting is proven to not work and that the Knicks should steer away from it. Because it's already working for them, and now they just have to add complimentary pieces and develop. If and when they add that second young star, they can have a realistic path to contention.

well, it's more the conversation becomes pro-tank in a way where nothing else can work. and that we now play a game of losing.

you nailed it. the draft IS an inexact science. think of what we are suggesting.

draft your own big three... or four... or five, given how this arms race is going. this entails being bad on purpose for like half a decade and hoping you get your picks right and hoping you have some kind of leg to stand on to encourage winning, when it's time.

or... you always play to win, strive to win, and try to hit on the picks. if the key to the rebuild is hitting on the picks, then we should augment that with incremental improvement year over year. people like to cite the warriors. they got better every year and hit on their picks. then kept on the upward trajectory.

the reason why we keep bringing up minnesota, philly, phoenix is because they don't win. the only one to do anything recently was phoenix. we have the coach they did when they popped off a bit. the situation kind of fell through on some personal schidt and the bottom fell right back out. maybe jeff knows a thing or two about incremental improvement and leading young men? i am confident our current FO knows a thing or two about selecting talent.

the part i can't reconcile is how setting the team up to lose leads to the promised land. thus, i can't reconcile rooting for losses piling up from onset. last year, when it was clear we weren't going to pull back up, i rooted for the L column like everyone else, but i didn't root for the players to be bum asses, if that makes sense.

and you can't have it both ways. they can't be bums who get you top 3 AND be championship pieces.

THIS

If we still suck 2/3 years from now are the players that we think are these amazing prospects really that damn great? Nope.

That's how you become stuck in the lotto.

[NY2TheBay]

KP isn't busting his ass in the gym and frying his little chicken legs to Hot 97 because he wants to play like garbage on a garbage team.

He want it.

[dakomish23]

If the Knicks rolled it over they could of given CLE a run for their money by signing CP3 & Millsap.

CP3
Monk or Frank
Melo
Millsap
WHG

Not bad

KP not on this team any longer?

Oops! Of course yes KP on the team. Even better

[Jeff Van Gully]

If the Knicks rolled it over they could of given CLE a run for their money by signing CP3 & Millsap.

CP3
Monk or Frank
Melo
Millsap
WHG

Not bad

KP not on this team any longer?

Oops! Of course yes KP on the team. Even better

honesly, millsap is the perfect PF to play next to KP at C. paul millsap has no problem gooning out. and as he ages, that's only going to be more the case. he mitigates KP's physical liabilities there.

melo is still a major defensive liability at 3.

[Jeff Van Gully]

KP not on this team any longer?

Oops! Of course yes KP on the team. Even better

honesly, millsap is the perfect PF to play next to KP at C. paul millsap has no problem gooning out. and as he ages, that's only going to be more the case. he mitigates KP's physical liabilities there.

melo is still a major defensive liability at 3.

signing both of these guys to long-term max deals on the tail end of their careers would be the most knicksian thing we could do.

[dakomish23]

Oops! Of course yes KP on the team. Even better

honesly, millsap is the perfect PF to play next to KP at C. paul millsap has no problem gooning out. and as he ages, that's only going to be more the case. he mitigates KP's physical liabilities there.

melo is still a major defensive liability at 3.

signing both of these guys to long-term max deals on the tail end of their careers would be the most knicksian thing we could do.

Signing two

- top 25 players
- who are not coming off injury concerns
- who excel at both sides
- who seamlessly fit the current roster

Is about as anti-Knicksian a thing I can think of.

Not all veteran contracts are the same.

[Jeff Van Gully]

honesly, millsap is the perfect PF to play next to KP at C. paul millsap has no problem gooning out. and as he ages, that's only going to be more the case. he mitigates KP's physical liabilities there.

melo is still a major defensive liability at 3.

signing both of these guys to long-term max deals on the tail end of their careers would be the most knicksian thing we could do.

Signing two

- top 25 players
- who are not coming off injury concerns
- who excel at both sides
- who seamlessly fit the current roster

Is about as anti-Knicksian a thing I can think of.

Not all veteran contracts are the same.

no, but how many years of max productivity are you getting out of those guys? you think chris paul got 4 more seasons of CP3 in him? by year 2 he'd be the same pariah every other savior became.

then we'd be talking about how we're too cash-strapped to rebuild and how we're the clippers while everyone else around us is rebuilding, and so forth.

[DLTGWH]

signing both of these guys to long-term max deals on the tail end of their careers would be the most knicksian thing we could do.

Signing two

- top 25 players
- who are not coming off injury concerns
- who excel at both sides
- who seamlessly fit the current roster

Is about as anti-Knicksian a thing I can think of.

Not all veteran contracts are the same.

no, but how many years of max productivity are you getting out of those guys? you think chris paul got 4 more seasons of CP3 in him? by year 2 he'd be the same pariah every other savior became.

then we'd be talking about how we're too cash-strapped to rebuild and how we're the clippers while everyone else around us is rebuilding, and so forth.

Treadmill teams gonna treadmill

Blow it up. Build through draft. Pray for good fortune. Unfortunately thats too hard for people to accept

[Jeff Van Gully]

Signing two

- top 25 players
- who are not coming off injury concerns
- who excel at both sides
- who seamlessly fit the current roster

Is about as anti-Knicksian a thing I can think of.

Not all veteran contracts are the same.

no, but how many years of max productivity are you getting out of those guys? you think chris paul got 4 more seasons of CP3 in him? by year 2 he'd be the same pariah every other savior became.

then we'd be talking about how we're too cash-strapped to rebuild and how we're the clippers while everyone else around us is rebuilding, and so forth.

Treadmill teams gonna treadmill

Blow it up. Build through draft. Pray for good fortune. Unfortunately thats too hard for people to accept

i'm not against trying to win and be as good as possible at all times. i just don't think chris paul and paul millsap are smart investments at this time.

it's blown up, pretty much. we have draft picks. we need to only add the right pieces. dakomish's mantra is "roll that schidt over." so it is surprising for me to hear him lament an inability to sign two past-prime players to max deals as they decline.

roll it over if you can't find an impact player who has long-term implications. anyone looking to sign chris paul and paul millsap is thinking about today.

[Sprewell4Three]

The Knicks won't have a good team anytime soon. Building teams in the NBA is not easy. You have to have a transcending star that other players want to play with. Unfortunately the Knicks don't have that player at this moment.

[Capn'O]

well, it's more the conversation becomes pro-tank in a way where nothing else can work. and that we now play a game of losing.

you nailed it. the draft IS an inexact science. think of what we are suggesting.

draft your own big three... or four... or five, given how this arms race is going. this entails being bad on purpose for like half a decade and hoping you get your picks right and hoping you have some kind of leg to stand on to encourage winning, when it's time.

or... you always play to win, strive to win, and try to hit on the picks. if the key to the rebuild is hitting on the picks, then we should augment that with incremental improvement year over year. people like to cite the warriors. they got better every year and hit on their picks. then kept on the upward trajectory.

the reason why we keep bringing up minnesota, philly, phoenix is because they don't win. the only one to do anything recently was phoenix. we have the coach they did when they popped off a bit. the situation kind of fell through on some personal schidt and the bottom fell right back out. maybe jeff knows a thing or two about incremental improvement and leading young men? i am confident our current FO knows a thing or two about selecting talent.

the part i can't reconcile is how setting the team up to lose leads to the promised land. thus, i can't reconcile rooting for losses piling up from onset. last year, when it was clear we weren't going to pull back up, i rooted for the L column like everyone else, but i didn't root for the players to be bum asses, if that makes sense.

and you can't have it both ways. they can't be bums who get you top 3 AND be championship pieces.

THIS

If we still suck 2/3 years from now are the players that we think are these amazing prospects really that damn great? Nope.

That's how you become stuck in the lotto.

It's insane circular logic.

Go ahead and tell KP, or ANY young player:

"We gonna be trash for your whole rookie contract. Like, a total joke and laughingstock for your entire rookie deal. But wink wink, we gonna draft a litter of universal soldiers who can't get better, but we'll magically start winning when there are 6 of you."

Nobody wants to spend their careers as bums. They all rich. Most of them want to compete.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. Where I do want to get clarification is your suggested managerial method behind this approach. If it's building through the draft, getting mentors as you can, and improving incrementally then I agree. If it's pulling out all the stops to try and maximize wins in a given year by signing/trading for the Zach Randolphs, Derrick Roses, Rudy Gays, and yes even Amar'es and Carmelo Anthonys of the world than I couldn't disagree more.

Where the Knicks have to stop the bleeding is going all in on quick fixes that they can't get out of if they don't lead to improvements. They need to get those guys the way the Spurs and Warriors did, start moving forward, and then look to add additional pieces around that core.

[Capn'O]

CP3 is circular logic as well. You're not getting him unless you're showing that you're a good destination for him. The Knicks haven't shown enough. Even the pre-'Bron Heat were a .500+ team with a player not too far off a championship with the same Heat. Where have the Knicks been? Nobody's teaming up here.

[god shammgod]

KP isn't busting his ass in the gym and frying his little chicken legs to Hot 97 because he wants to play like garbage on a garbage team.

He want it.

yeah, that's the part that got me.

[dakomish23]

Signing two

- top 25 players
- who are not coming off injury concerns
- who excel at both sides
- who seamlessly fit the current roster

Is about as anti-Knicksian a thing I can think of.

Not all veteran contracts are the same.

no, but how many years of max productivity are you getting out of those guys? you think chris paul got 4 more seasons of CP3 in him? by year 2 he'd be the same pariah every other savior became.

then we'd be talking about how we're too cash-strapped to rebuild and how we're the clippers while everyone else around us is rebuilding, and so forth.

Treadmill teams gonna treadmill

Blow it up. Build through draft. Pray for good fortune. Unfortunately thats too hard for people to accept

Wth are you yapping about

Do you know what a treadmill team is or are you using a term that you heard the media use because it's a buzzword?

CP3 Millsap Melo KP is not treadmill

I want us to pick a direction and stick to it. I don't want us to sign rotation vets to large long deals because that would lead to a treadmill. When did CP3 & Millsap become rotation vets instead of All NBA level talent???

I'm for doing the full rebuild IF you do a true full rebuild. Not this half ass garbage this franchise has shown indications it will continue to do this summer.

What a dumb assertion to assume that I'm not for a true rebuild because I would also be ok with signing All NBA talent to make a push in the upcoming years.

[Knicks Byke]

The Knicks won't have a good team anytime soon. Building teams in the NBA is not easy. You have to have a transcending star that other players want to play with. Unfortunately the Knicks don't have that player at this moment.

and luck. you need luck.