NBA 2017 Draft thread. 5th pick and 10th pick.

[jeffjtk1234]

I am all in for DSJ, but I am probably the only one with you City of Trees

I've been pushing for him too, I just want a pg at 5


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[SacKingZZZ]

Here's an example of a play off of pick and roll that I'm talking about. Smith seems to be able to go left, left, left, and left as well. That by itself doesn't bother me much, plenty of really good players go left and make a darn good living at it, but it's the hesitation and inability to maneuver in space with a showing or switching big that should bother scouts. He kind of reminds me a bit of Bibby at the top of the key. He should look at tape and learn how to split the double like Bibby used too. I don't think getting around bigs into the gap is going to be consistent unless he has another gear nobody saw at the college level last year.

https://youtu.be/Itu0KtV5Chg?t=1919

[City of Trees]

Link provided to me by BroncoBuck on T&T. Compares the last four one-and-done Duke SF's Parker, Winslow, Ingram, and Tatum. Check it out.

Long-range Shooting
.

Playmaking
.

Shot creation
.

Rebounding
.

Post game
.



Link
https://accsports.com/acc-analytics/jayson-tatum-duke-stats-profile/

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[City of Trees]

I am all in for DSJ, but I am probably the only one with you City of Trees

I've been pushing for him too, I just want a pg at 5


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By my count that's 3 and a P. KF10 you in on this? Haha

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[SacKingZZZ]

Link provided to me by BroncoBuck on T&T. Compares the last four one-and-done Duke SF's Parker, Winslow, Ingram, and Tatum. Check it out.

Long-range Shooting
.

Playmaking
.

Shot creation
.

Rebounding
.

Post game
.



Link
https://accsports.com/acc-analytics/jayson-tatum-duke-stats-profile/

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Informative article. Pretty much lines up the way it looked with how each played at Duke. Winslow = playmaker. Ingram = star F. Parker = Melo light. Tatum = somewhere in between all of them. The only stat that is somewhat skewed is the 3 point one. Different line in the NBA and Winslow clearly doesn't have NBA range at this point.

[Sacramento_King]

Informative article. Pretty much lines up the way it looked with how each played at Duke. Winslow = playmaker. Ingram = star F. Parker = Melo light. Tatum = somewhere in between all of them. The only stat that is somewhat skewed is the 3 point one. Different line in the NBA and Winslow clearly doesn't have NBA range at this point.

That's why I always thought Rudy Gay. He is an iso, back to the basket small forward. I like Tatum but he may not be the best fit in this type of NBA.

[SactownHrtBrks8]

I am also pretty excited about the possibility of Jonathan Isaac. I have watched more and more of him lately. It will be prettying interesting. He could end up being the best player in the draft if he reaches his full potential

[KF10]

I am all in for DSJ, but I am probably the only one with you City of Trees

I've been pushing for him too, I just want a pg at 5


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By my count that's 3 and a P. KF10 you in on this? Haha

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Yeah, I've been pushing DSJ at #5 if Fox is gone for a while now.

Here is my post about a month ago:

If we Fox is gone by the time the Kings pick, who would we take? I still think we need a young PG in the worst way.

I nab DSJ at #5 and BPA at #10 or trade down.

Re-looking at DSJ's numbers and footage, I can't believe he isn't as talked about in the 4-6 ranges. I wouldn't be surprised if DSJ has a similar Lillard-like trajectory.

Gotta be DSJ or Tatum at 5

That's a reach for Isaac. Isaac needs some development time. I'm a Tatum "alarmist" though about that iso ball. Think Kings fans worry about it more than other fans however, but we just went through the Rudy years.

Isaac is too "role player-y" for my likings to be drafted at #5, imo. It would be a fine choice if the Kings still have their #8 pick but at #5? Nah. I don't like that.

I'm liking Tatum more and more when I look into his profile but he's still a couple of spots below in my draft board on who to pick at #5. Fox is still my number 1 and after that is somewhat of a medium drop in term of fit.

DSJ has all the offensive move-set to become an outstanding scorer at the PG spot -- and in these days, you need a great PG to compete. My concerns for DSJ is his knee history and his defensive effort. I kind of think the defensive effort stuff can be corrected once he plays for an NBA team (Joerger will be on his butt all the way), so I'm not too worried about that. He has all the tools to be a plus defender, imo.

[PetrieUnderstudy]

I'm also good with Smith at #5 but I'd take Fox over him if he's there. I like both guys but Fox's intangibles, energy, personality, defense, height, and health win out for me. If Fox gets drafted in top 4 then Smith is nice option to have. There are some things about Smith's game I like better than Fox and if the coaching staff can push the right buttons with him I think he has star potential. I said a couple months back I like him but his motor, attitude, and knee are the things that worry me.

I'd just love to see high energy and character guys drafted. Fox, Mitchell, and Bell would make us a lot better defensive team.

I really don't want to target a PG in free agency (a Teague type) and would rather us draft our PG at #5. So Fox then Smith. At 10 draft Mitchell. I think we can get a place holder SF via trade (Harkless or Carroll) or FA agency (Ingles) and get our SF of the future in the 2018 draft.

[PetrieUnderstudy]

With that being said we need Tatum, Isaac, and Smith in for workouts. Smith as mentioned worked out for Lakers and Fox worked out for Lakers today. Links to their interviews:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[City of Trees]

I'm also good with Smith at #5 but I'd take Fox over him if he's there. I like both guys but Fox's intangibles, energy, personality, defense, height, and health win out for me. If Fox gets drafted in top 4 then Smith is nice option to have. There are some things about Smith's game I like better than Fox and if the coaching staff can push the right buttons with him I think he has star potential. I said a couple months back I like him but his motor, attitude, and knee are the things that worry me.

I'd just love to see high energy and character guys drafted. Fox, Mitchell, and Bell would make us a lot better defensive team.

I really don't want to target a PG in free agency (a Teague type) and would rather us draft our PG at #5. So Fox then Smith. At 10 draft Mitchell. I think we can get a place holder SF via trade (Harkless or Carroll) or FA agency (Ingles) and get our SF of the future in the 2018 draft.

I agree with everything you said. My thing between Fox and Smith is I believe Smith has the higher ceiling, but I really like both of then. I'm cool with Fox at 5 obviously.

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[SacKingZZZ]

I have no idea what the deal is with Tatum. I haven't really heard much about him in the workout cycle.

I did see some rumors on SB, or hoopshype, I can't remember where, that Isaac has worked out more than once for the Suns and there are rumors they might be taking him at 4.

Some mocks are starting to have Ball falling all the way down to near 6-8 range. Smokescreen?

I'm starting to jump aboard trading 5 and 10 to get Fox at 3 if the Suns are still a threat to take him and the Sixers aren't in love with him after their workout. I just can't see him and Simmons being a good combo. I think they are making the smart play giving Simmons the ball and letting him run their offense. It's starting to look like it might be slim pickings at 10 and I think the Kings can jump back into the 1st round if they want and maybe get someone the like anyway.

[dozencousins]

via MY SOURCE :

To add to my post the other day .

From what I am told if the Celtics pick 1st they will draft Fultz ( no surprise ) however the basis for the Celtics considering trading us the #1 pick for our 5 & 10 + is because the Celtics are very high on Tatum and they also like J.Jackson & they feel 1 of the 2 are likely to be available at 5 & if not Fox and they would be happy with him as well .
There is a lot of talks going on
I am hearing that the Suns as well as Detroit might be trading their 1st round picks as well .

If the Kings do trade for the 1st pick or the 3rd pick and trade our 5th & 10th I believe it becomes even more likely the Kings and Blazers pull off a trade for the Blazers 15th or 20th pick as Kings really want to have 2 x 1st round picks in this draft .

Should the Kings keep the # 5 & 10 . Kings are hoping for Fox at 5 and Isaac at 10 if he slips a bit Monk and Markkanen would be possibilities .
Again if we keep the 5 & 10 and Fox is gone , We would take homever is available at 5 between Ball , Jackson & Tatum
from their the #10 depends on which of the 3 at 5 are gone but then we are targeting 1 of Smith ,Ntilikina , Monk or Markkanen .

We do have callers for our #10 pick so it is hard to say for 100% certainty from what I here as concrete .

There is a good possibility that Koufas gets dealt between the draft & there after but before the next season.

Our 2nd round pick if available would highly likely be Bell , F.Jackson , Swanigan or Rabb if he slips further . Again our pick here would be determined based on positions of players we took in the earlier part of the draft .

Should we trade for the 20th pick we would be likely to select 1 of Ojeleye , Leaf or Giles however we also could take Bell if we think at the time of our 2nd rounder he would be gone .

I saw someone say something about trading Temple . That is possible but very unlikely . We consider him not only a great defender , person & teammate but he is a great teacher for our younger players and all of this is invaluable . Temple will likely be a coach after his playing days are over .

I do not expect us to trade for any vets right now unless it is to absorb a bad contract from teams to gain future picks , assets .
We have a lot of cap space we must spend with only so many roster spots available . It would be best served for our future 2 years from now and there after to take on this course of action . Plus when any player or players we get expire we may gain more assets as they become expiring .

Some players we are working out that are 2nd round possibilities are not even players we are considering drafting . The basis for doing so is to keep and have good relationships with agents and also incase any go undrafted we can invite them to be a summer invite . I would not read to much into any one player we are bringing in protected as being a 2nd rounder or non selected .

[benchmobbin02]

via MY SOURCE :

To add to my post the other day .

From what I am told if the Celtics pick 1st they will draft Fultz ( no surprise ) however the basis for the Celtics considering trading us the #1 pick for our 5 & 10 + is because the Celtics are very high on Tatum and they also like J.Jackson & they feel 1 of the 2 are likely to be available at 5 & if not Fox and they would be happy with him as well .
There is a lot of talks going on
I am hearing that the Suns as well as Detroit might be trading their 1st round picks as well .

If the Kings do trade for the 1st pick or the 3rd pick and trade our 5th & 10th I believe it becomes even more likely the Kings and Blazers pull off a trade for the Blazers 15th or 20th pick as Kings really want to have 2 x 1st round picks in this draft .

Should the Kings keep the # 5 & 10 . Kings are hoping for Fox at 5 and Isaac at 10 if he slips a bit Monk and Markkanen would be possibilities .
Again if we keep the 5 & 10 and Fox is gone , We would take homever is available at 5 between Ball , Jackson & Tatum
from their the #10 depends on which of the 3 at 5 are gone but then we are targeting 1 of Smith ,Ntilikina , Monk or Markkanen .

We do have callers for our #10 pick so it is hard to say for 100% certainty from what I here as concrete .

There is a good possibility that Koufas gets dealt between the draft & there after but before the next season.

Our 2nd round pick if available would highly likely be Bell , F.Jackson , Swanigan or Rabb if he slips further . Again our pick here would be determined based on positions of players we took in the earlier part of the draft .

Should we trade for the 20th pick we would be likely to select 1 of Ojeleye , Leaf or Giles however we also could take Bell if we think at the time of our 2nd rounder he would be gone .

I saw someone say something about trading Temple . That is possible but very unlikely . We consider him not only a great defender , person & teammate but he is a great teacher for our younger players and all of this is invaluable . Temple will likely be a coach after his playing days are over .

I do not expect us to trade for any vets right now unless it is to absorb a bad contract from teams to gain future picks , assets .
We have a lot of cap space we must spend with only so many roster spots available . It would be best served for our future 2 years from now and there after to take on this course of action . Plus when any player or players we get expire we may gain more assets as they become expiring .

Some players we are working out that are 2nd round possibilities are not even players we are considering drafting . The basis for doing so is to keep and have good relationships with agents and also incase any go undrafted we can invite them to be a summer invite . I would not read to much into any one player we are bringing in protected as being a 2nd rounder or non selected .

A few questions you may or may not have answered already...I just don't remember

Does your source know you are posting this info on message boards and is that the reason they are giving it to you(to be posted for fans and whoever else to see)?

Do they tell you all this over the phone or email or in person?

[City of Trees]

Here's an example of a play off of pick and roll that I'm talking about. Smith seems to be able to go left, left, left, and left as well. That by itself doesn't bother me much, plenty of really good players go left and make a darn good living at it, but it's the hesitation and inability to maneuver in space with a showing or switching big that should bother scouts. He kind of reminds me a bit of Bibby at the top of the key. He should look at tape and learn how to split the double like Bibby used too. I don't think getting around bigs into the gap is going to be consistent unless he has another gear nobody saw at the college level last year.

https://youtu.be/Itu0KtV5Chg?t=1919

In this video I see what you're saying but I don't agree it's a physical limitation. I think it's NC State coaching. I'm In final minute of that game Smith blows right past his defender, and again out of a pick n roll (going left) to hit a tough jump shot. Smith just needs to play with other NBA talent players and get coached up. I dont see your concerns as permanent limitations.

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[City of Trees]

Justin Jackson after his work out with the Knicks:

“I’m hearing my range is 10 to 20,’’ Jackson said. “I’ll let the people who make the big decisions see where I am. My agent has heard the rumors of the Knicks trading down but who knows.’’

So the Knicks could be a potential trading partner if interest in Jackson is real. I also heard J. Jackson aced Phil's triangle quiz.

What would be a fair trade with NY to move up to 8?

http://nypost.com/2017/06/13/the-knicks-draft-workouts-are-different-than-the-rest-of-nbas/

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[Eisenheart]

Justin Jackson after his work out with the Knicks:

“I’m hearing my range is 10 to 20,’’ Jackson said. “I’ll let the people who make the big decisions see where I am. My agent has heard the rumors of the Knicks trading down but who knows.’’

So the Knicks could be a potential trading partner if interest in Jackson is real. I also heard J. Jackson aced Phil's triangle quiz.

What would be a fair trade with NY to move up to 8?

http://nypost.com/2017/06/13/the-knicks-draft-workouts-are-different-than-the-rest-of-nbas/

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taking Noahs contract? if they want, they can also get our 34th, i don't care. trading up from 10 is for me the best case scenario, i would love this move

[SacKingZZZ]

Here's an example of a play off of pick and roll that I'm talking about. Smith seems to be able to go left, left, left, and left as well. That by itself doesn't bother me much, plenty of really good players go left and make a darn good living at it, but it's the hesitation and inability to maneuver in space with a showing or switching big that should bother scouts. He kind of reminds me a bit of Bibby at the top of the key. He should look at tape and learn how to split the double like Bibby used too. I don't think getting around bigs into the gap is going to be consistent unless he has another gear nobody saw at the college level last year.

https://youtu.be/Itu0KtV5Chg?t=1919

In this video I see what you're saying but I don't agree it's a physical limitation. I think it's NC State coaching. I'm In final minute of that game Smith blows right past his defender, and again out of a pick n roll (going left) to hit a tough jump shot. Smith just needs to play with other NBA talent players and get coached up. I dont see your concerns as permanent limitations.

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Yeah, part of it at NC State was certainly style. I can agree with that for sure. But I'm watching these games and I'm seeing this fairly consistently. There are times where he gets a defender on his back and gets to rack no question, but I've seen this reset way more often than that.

They might not be permanent limitations but it still comes back to whether the player we saw at NC State is the player you'll see in the NBA. I'm not sold on his pick and roll game with a team like Sacramento, who honestly will probably run something similar to what they did at NC State minus the walking the ball up. I think on a team that looks to create as much space for him as possible it would be a better fit. That's why I think the Isaiah comparison as to the the importance of "fit" is at play here. I think you're looking at the makings of a volume guy that isn't a guarantee on defense, that will probably pull up off pick and roll quite a bit, and will look like a million bucks on the right squad, not just any squad.

[SacKingZZZ]

I was looking up some Tatum news and I saw this article that states he's already worked out for the Suns. It talks about Isaac as well.

In addition to Collins, the Suns recently worked out Duke small forward Jayson Tatum and met with Florida State forward Jonathan Isaac. Both players are candidates for their No. 4 slot. Connelly’s impressions:

On Isaac: “He’s a good player. He’s long, he’s skilled. He’s multidimensional. He’s a really good kid. The Florida State guys did a good job with him. He’s another guy that can kind of really mix it up and doesn’t have really one specific skill that you can kind of say he relies on. He can do a whole of things really well.”

On Tatum: “He’s really skilled. He’s a really good shooter. As he came back from his (foot) injury at Duke, he showed he was one of the better players in the nation down the stretch. The whole season he played really well, but he really kind of found his feet later in the season. Really skilled. Good size and he can do a bunch of different things.”

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2017/06/14/gonzagas-zach-collins-shows-off-intensity-workout-suns/394638001/

[SacKingZZZ]

Justin Jackson after his work out with the Knicks:

“I’m hearing my range is 10 to 20,’’ Jackson said. “I’ll let the people who make the big decisions see where I am. My agent has heard the rumors of the Knicks trading down but who knows.’’

So the Knicks could be a potential trading partner if interest in Jackson is real. I also heard J. Jackson aced Phil's triangle quiz.

What would be a fair trade with NY to move up to 8?

http://nypost.com/2017/06/13/the-knicks-draft-workouts-are-different-than-the-rest-of-nbas/

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And the smoke is pumping.