Kevin Love Containment Thread -- All Deals Here

[R-DAWG]

Kevin Love is younger, but I certainly don't think he's better. He's certainly the better rebounder, but if you play Horford at the 4 which he should be playing, that isn't as big of a concern. Horford has rated out much better according RPM and VORP the last 3 years, and he is FAR better suited to play alongside Lebron and Kyrie than Love is. If Love isn't your primary or secondary scorer giving you 24+ PPG, his defensive limitations offset his value tremendously. On the other hand, Horford thrives as a 3rd or 4th option who spreads the floor, is elite in the pick and roll/pop, offers defensively versatility and rim protection at the 4, and offers elite passing from several positions.

I would much rather Kyrie and Lebron taking shots than Love, so adding a guy who takes fewer shots but provides similar floor spacing and much better ability in every other aspect of the game outside of rebounding (where Tristan and Lebron are both great regardless) would be an upgrade for the Cavs in my opinion. The fact that we add in Smart, Rozier, and a 1st would make it an absolute no brainer for the Cavs. Smart is already one of the best and most versatile perimeter defenders in the NBA. He's also an incredible playmaker to have off the bench who impacts the game in every way (is a good rebounder, passer, defender, ball handler, etc.) other than shooting the ball well. He's precisely the type of player who helps the Cavs match up with the Warriors.

Rozier is another 2 way guard who is extremely underrated. You are massively underselling those 2 by calling them backup guards. Smart plays starter minutes for the 2nd best team in the East and is essentially a 6th starter on a team that is deep in the backcourt. The fact that Rozier carved out a role at all with Jaylen playing a lot at the 2 was impressive to me, and just like last year, he shined big time in the playoffs. Just because we have the luxury of having the #1 overall pick doesn't mean those 2 have less value to a team like the Cavs.

I don't see how this isn't a no brainer for the Cavs, but I'm not a Cavs fan. Sure they get older, but their window is NOW. Replacing almost all of what Love gives you with Melo and replacing Shumpert (also a poor shooter, but not a great playmaker and he's far more expensive while providing a lesser impact) with Smart, but then drastically upgrading from Rjeff/Frye to Horford would be an amazing offseason for the Cavs. They add 3 players that are better suited to match up against the Warriors (one of which still has a lot of untapped upside), and they also upgrade at several spots across the board.

Love would become Boston's secondary scorer, a role at which he is far superior than Horford at. Additionally, in Cleveland, Horford becomes the 3rd option/stretch 5 that is a more ideal fit.

In a lot of ways a straight Horford for Love swap makes sense. Boston might need to add a little value since Love is younger and the back end of Horford's deal could be scary. But in terms of basketball fit, the trade makes a lot of sense.

Does Love play center for us? OMG...a Love/Olynyk frontcourt would be hilarious given their history!!!

No, you use your resources to acquire a center as you continue to build your team. This trade actually opens up additional cap space for your team.

[spree8]

I don't think Iman would want to come back to NY or would be welcome after saying he basically hated the fans. Also, Knicks could get more for Melo than this.

[jbk1234]

Call it as I see it. If they don't want that designation, don't be one. This particular individual likes to constantly devalue other players in order to appease his own lack of value in the world. I was merely providing a service that the comment can be ignored and passed over, deservingly so. If you got a problem with me calling a spade a spade, ban me. Sick and tired of some of these users pretending like there is no value to a star player, even under certain circumstances. You're not trading trash for a top 15 player, period. Cut that **** out. (My contribution, you're welcome.)

I've been around these forums longer than this person, and I usually choose to make my contributions actual contributions to discussions. This individual has over 20,000 posts, many with nothing put trolling qualities. Lets not ignore quality over quantity here. My post was in direct response to what his content usually is.

I may be totally wrong, but I read his post as saying that Denver should be adding more or the Suns would certainly beat the offer of the 13th pick for Love. I'm not exactly sure he was saying that Love for PG is bad value for Cleveland. The 13th pick for Love is certainly terrible value (I see no value in the S&T of Gallo here).

I personally disagree that Cleveland wouldn't add a first (unclear from the OP if it's unprotected, which they wouldn't do likely), but there's something to the idea that they have no real reason to add much value with where they are at right now.

That's exactly what I was saying.

[loserX]

I feel like Phoenix definitely has to add something if they want Love, probably to the Knicks.

If I were the Suns however I would also want a good chat with Love's agent. Last time he was on a lottery team he didn't like it very much and had no problems vocalizing that. (The fact that he's being traded by a contender to a bottom-5 team isn't going to make him any happier about it either.)

[jbk1234]

The trade checker must be broken because the Cavs can't take on $40 million in salary while sending out just over $30 million.

[Andre Roberstan]

The trade checker must be broken because the Cavs can't take on $40 million in salary while sending out just over $30 million.

2 trades. KOQ goes in the Dunleavy trade exception.

[SideSwipe]

The basic premise is interesting. Cavs do too well in this. PHX won't add much more to get Love, maybe a 2nd. Not sure they would do this as is. Right now, though, Love does not fully address what PHX needs. There would need to be more moves. There is general discord on the fit of Love in PHX now due to age, especially if Bledsoe is going out for him.

For the Cavs Melo and Oquinn equal Love, and Bledsoe>>>Jefferson and Frye

All told, this deal is pretty good though. It could use some tweaking all around, but it's pretty good in terms of values. Fit maybe not so much.

[brackdan70]

I hate this for Boston. The Value isn't far off all around, but I think this makes Boston worse and Cleveland Better and doesn't help Boston with the future.

I think the Value for Melo is actually pretty fair though.

[hcsilla]

Interesting, balanced deal, good job.

[nykballa2k4]

Lmao at knick fans supposedly overrating Melo.

Majority of the Melo trades proposed are for a non lotto pick with bad money in return for a guy who was an all star this year (on the basis that he was next in line on coaches voting, you know, guys who may know a bit about ball). There's a great argument that most of these offers are way undervalue for Melo.

It's true but Melos value is extremely low because of his no trade clause and Phils bashing in the media.

Basically what his NTC does is it allows Melo to choose the team he's traded to and that team basically gets to choose what they would give up for Melo since there's so few suitors. The Knicks can choose to keep him too but I don't think they want to do that. Obviously I'm not an insider but hypothetically why would the Cavs give up a ton of value if they know the only other team in the bidding war is the clippers with their Rivers+ Crawford + 2021 protected 1st package?

The same reason they Maxed Triston Thompson when literally no other team could nor would come close to that figure...

Also, I think the least it would take for Melo would be Frye, Shumpert and 2 unprotected 1sts (or perhaps top 3). So 2018 and 2020. 2018 will presumably be a pick in the 27-30 range. 2020 is the only asset... This frees up the Cavs to trade Love for a rental star in Butler or George.

Phil has to be given incentive to do the trade, I don't feel Melo's personality constitutes that level of incentive where taking on trash is a reasonable choice.

[lakerhater]

Said it in a few other threads, guess I have to say it again, Love is a poor fit alongside Jokic. Nikola needs a defensive PF who can shoot a little from the perimeter on offense but more importantly is a good cutter and finisher at the basket catching Jokic's pinpoint passes.

The ball goes through Jokic in Denver's half court offense in both the high and low post most of the time which turns Love into a stand on the perimeter catch and shoot player.

Denver passes.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Lmao at knick fans supposedly overrating Melo.

Majority of the Melo trades proposed are for a non lotto pick with bad money in return for a guy who was an all star this year (on the basis that he was next in line on coaches voting, you know, guys who may know a bit about ball). There's a great argument that most of these offers are way undervalue for Melo.

It's true but Melos value is extremely low because of his no trade clause and Phils bashing in the media.

Basically what his NTC does is it allows Melo to choose the team he's traded to and that team basically gets to choose what they would give up for Melo since there's so few suitors. The Knicks can choose to keep him too but I don't think they want to do that. Obviously I'm not an insider but hypothetically why would the Cavs give up a ton of value if they know the only other team in the bidding war is the clippers with their Rivers+ Crawford + 2021 protected 1st package?

The same reason they Maxed Triston Thompson when literally no other team could nor would come close to that figure...

Also, I think the least it would take for Melo would be Frye, Shumpert and 2 unprotected 1sts (or perhaps top 3). So 2018 and 2020. 2018 will presumably be a pick in the 27-30 range. 2020 is the only asset... This frees up the Cavs to trade Love for a rental star in Butler or George.

Phil has to be given incentive to do the trade, I don't feel Melo's personality constitutes that level of incentive where taking on trash is a reasonable choice.

No other team that Melo would play on is going to offer anything close to 2 1sts for Melo, let alone unprotected. So why would the Cavs offer it? Melo just isn't worth that much after what Phil has done to Melos value and the Knicks leverage in discussions. Plus if they wanted Paul George they would need those picks to attach to Love. Carmelo is either staying on the Knicks or being traded for middling assets I'm sorry to say it, but it's Phils fault.

Idk why Knicks fans don't understand that even though Phil is the GM he has the least amount of power in Melo trade talks. Melo chooses what team he goes to and that team chooses what they're willing to give up. Or Phil can just keep his disgruntled star and continue to say disrespectful things about him in the media and passive aggressively share negative articles about him while Melo collects his paycheck and the Knicks devote half of their cap to him and Noah.

Also they can't trade the 2020 pick. It would have to be 2021 and no way it isn't lottery protected atthat point.

[SportsFan215]

I could actually see this happening.

[Rockazoids]

Interesting, balanced deal, good job.

Good deal for everyone but the Knicks. They giveup a asset (KOQ) to trade Melo for the right to have TJ Warren, Frye & Jefferson
No picks or player dump for the Knicks. They are taking it in the backside.

[nykballa2k4]

It's true but Melos value is extremely low because of his no trade clause and Phils bashing in the media.

Basically what his NTC does is it allows Melo to choose the team he's traded to and that team basically gets to choose what they would give up for Melo since there's so few suitors. The Knicks can choose to keep him too but I don't think they want to do that. Obviously I'm not an insider but hypothetically why would the Cavs give up a ton of value if they know the only other team in the bidding war is the clippers with their Rivers+ Crawford + 2021 protected 1st package?

The same reason they Maxed Triston Thompson when literally no other team could nor would come close to that figure...

Also, I think the least it would take for Melo would be Frye, Shumpert and 2 unprotected 1sts (or perhaps top 3). So 2018 and 2020. 2018 will presumably be a pick in the 27-30 range. 2020 is the only asset... This frees up the Cavs to trade Love for a rental star in Butler or George.

Phil has to be given incentive to do the trade, I don't feel Melo's personality constitutes that level of incentive where taking on trash is a reasonable choice.

No other team that Melo would play on is going to offer anything close to 2 1sts for Melo, let alone unprotected. So why would the Cavs offer it? Melo just isn't worth that much after what Phil has done to Melos value and the Knicks leverage in discussions. Plus if they wanted Paul George they would need those picks to attach to Love. Carmelo is either staying on the Knicks or being traded for middling assets I'm sorry to say it, but it's Phils fault.

Idk why Knicks fans don't understand that even though Phil is the GM he has the least amount of power in Melo trade talks. Melo chooses what team he goes to and that team chooses what they're willing to give up. Or Phil can just keep his disgruntled star and continue to say disrespectful things about him in the media and passive aggressively share negative articles about him while Melo collects his paycheck and the Knicks devote half of their cap to him and Noah.

Also they can't trade the 2020 pick. It would have to be 2021 and no way it isn't lottery protected atthat point.

Why can't they trade 2020?
And the thing is Phil has NO OBLIGATION TO TRADE MELO. Phil is done with charity work after the Tyson Chandler debacle. So either Melo stays and "boy are we lucky" or the Cavs send an offer Phil can't refuse and "boy are we lucky" and Melo is probably the cheapest all-star talent to acquire by far. No one is taking Channing Frye and Iman Shumpert is an okay player, but clearly not a difference maker. These are the player under contract the Cavs have to use to make a trade. LeBron and JR are friends and JR just balled out for 3 out of 5 games. The Cavs are at the least 1.5 pieces away from making it a series with the Warriors. Realistically, they are playing for the finals with the hope that LeBron and Kyrie are healthy and one of Curry and Durant gets hurt. If LeBron wants to stack the deck, he is going to have to find a ring-chasing pg or hope that Chris Smith learned how to play ball. Warriors got good play out of the M's MacAdoo, McCaw and McGee.

Ultimately the teams that Melo would go to, the teams that need Melo need him more than the Knicks need to trade him. Thus leverage is on the Knicks side more than you(and whoever agrees with you) think. I am not saying Melo will get the #1 pick or some premium all-star asset. He will surely get back something of value. If you don't believe me PLEASE PLEASE find me an example of an all-star player who brought back less in a trade...

[snowman]

Anthony to Clev
Love to Bos
Bradley, Smart and Zeller to NY

Clev gets another strong scorer to go with Lebron, Smith and Irving.

Bos get a rebounding big that is a 3 point threat to go with Horford.

NY gets younger and better defensively and has better cap control.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

The same reason they Maxed Triston Thompson when literally no other team could nor would come close to that figure...

Also, I think the least it would take for Melo would be Frye, Shumpert and 2 unprotected 1sts (or perhaps top 3). So 2018 and 2020. 2018 will presumably be a pick in the 27-30 range. 2020 is the only asset... This frees up the Cavs to trade Love for a rental star in Butler or George.

Phil has to be given incentive to do the trade, I don't feel Melo's personality constitutes that level of incentive where taking on trash is a reasonable choice.

No other team that Melo would play on is going to offer anything close to 2 1sts for Melo, let alone unprotected. So why would the Cavs offer it? Melo just isn't worth that much after what Phil has done to Melos value and the Knicks leverage in discussions. Plus if they wanted Paul George they would need those picks to attach to Love. Carmelo is either staying on the Knicks or being traded for middling assets I'm sorry to say it, but it's Phils fault.

Idk why Knicks fans don't understand that even though Phil is the GM he has the least amount of power in Melo trade talks. Melo chooses what team he goes to and that team chooses what they're willing to give up. Or Phil can just keep his disgruntled star and continue to say disrespectful things about him in the media and passive aggressively share negative articles about him while Melo collects his paycheck and the Knicks devote half of their cap to him and Noah.

Also they can't trade the 2020 pick. It would have to be 2021 and no way it isn't lottery protected atthat point.

Why can't they trade 2020?
And the thing is Phil has NO OBLIGATION TO TRADE MELO. Phil is done with charity work after the Tyson Chandler debacle. So either Melo stays and "boy are we lucky" or the Cavs send an offer Phil can't refuse and "boy are we lucky" and Melo is probably the cheapest all-star talent to acquire by far. No one is taking Channing Frye and Iman Shumpert is an okay player, but clearly not a difference maker. These are the player under contract the Cavs have to use to make a trade. LeBron and JR are friends and JR just balled out for 3 out of 5 games. The Cavs are at the least 1.5 pieces away from making it a series with the Warriors. Realistically, they are playing for the finals with the hope that LeBron and Kyrie are healthy and one of Curry and Durant gets hurt. If LeBron wants to stack the deck, he is going to have to find a ring-chasing pg or hope that Chris Smith learned how to play ball. Warriors got good play out of the M's MacAdoo, McCaw and McGee.

Ultimately the teams that Melo would go to, the teams that need Melo need him more than the Knicks need to trade him. Thus leverage is on the Knicks side more than you(and whoever agrees with you) think. I am not saying Melo will get the #1 pick or some premium all-star asset. He will surely get back something of value. If you don't believe me PLEASE PLEASE find me an example of an all-star player who brought back less in a trade...

They traded 2019 pick for Kyle Korver.

Youre right they have no obligation to trade Melo. However, the Cavs are better off combining the assets they would use for Melo with Love to acquire a real star that isnt 33 years old and one dimensional. And the Clippers can only offer a 2021 1st. Can you think of another contending team with players that Melo likes in a city he's willing to play in?

Like I said he would get a Lottery protected 2021 1st and thats it, Cousins couldnt even get 2 1sts this year, neither could Serge Ibaka or Nerlens Noel. All of whom are younger, cheaper and arguably or definitely worth more than Melo at this point.

Also when was the last time an unprotected 1st got traded? None were traded this year. Everyone learned from the Nets mistakes in 2013 youre never gonna see a pick that far in the future get traded without protections ever again.

Melo is an incredibly unique scenario. The only reason Melo was even an all star this season was because of injuries and this will most likely be the last one he ever makes considering hes 33 and theres lots of young up and comers in the east. Can you please find me an example of a time where a GM gave a player all the power with a NTC and then turned around to disrespect him, highlighted his flaws in the media, said he would be better off somewhere else which drove down his value and caused so much disfunction for his franchise that their young star skipped an exit meeting and is apparently angry with the way the team has been managed.

[snowman]

This is the base to start with. What would have to go where to push it through?

[bigg mike]

I think Cavs fans made it pretty clear they don't want to move Love for Melo & that they don't want to move Love to the only other team in the conference that can give them a run for their money.

[jayjaysee]

Some don't remember Noah, Cleveland, and Lebron..



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