2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread IV

LongLiveHinkie · Post #1201 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:14 am

Jackson with that awful form still shot a better percentage than Fox, Tatum, Smith. That should say as much if not more about those prospects. It tells me at least Jackson has some type of touch and if he corrects his mechanics he could be a league average shooter from distance in the NBA.

However, Fox, Smith, Tatum's forms are pretty good, much better mechanics, but shot worse. That's scary. At least you can look at Jackson and find things to correct. If it's touch, sense of accuracy issues with Fox, Smith, Tatum then that's a bigger issue because that's an innate ability.

If Jackson's shot sucks, at least he'll give you other things. Defense, attack the rim, passing. I think him not shooting impacts his NBA game much less than the others. If Tatum can't shoot in the NBA he's pretty much useless. If Smith can't shoot he'll be a high volume, low efficiency player. If Fox can't shoot, he'll be a quicker faster version of Elfrid Payton.

freshie2 · Post #1202 » by **freshie2** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:16 am

In fairness, give Dunn more than a single season before you label him a bust.

freshie2 · Post #1203 » by **freshie2** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:20 am

Tatum shot around 85% from the line...no worries about his touch, just a matter of reps and extending range.

eagereyez · Post #1204 » by **eagereyez** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:25 am

Jackson shot 56% from the line through 3 years of FIBA tournaments. He is old enough to be a sophomore. He has a giant afro that alters the mechanics of his shot. I tried to argue similar things with regard to Dunn but his college 3P% increased on a small number of attempts and that was enough to end the argument. The same people were convinced that Hield was riding a hot shooting streak his senior year of college ala Jodie Meeks. Jackson does a lot of other things well enough to be worthy of a top 3 pick, but it is tiring hearing the "he'll improve his shot, just watch!" argument for the Nth year in a row.

Mik317 · Post #1205 » by **Mik317** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:26 am

we have always brought in big name guys rather late in the process...I honestly thought that was the rules at one point lol

Chris76 · Post #1206 » by **Chris76** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:30 am

eagereyez wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:id rather have dsj than lonzo at #3

Idk about that, but I would take DSJ over Jackson at 3. Jackson in PHI is a worse player than Jackson in LA. The odds that he'll ever be an above league average shooter on high volume are very low. The fact that the Kris Dunn fanclub is in love with him strengthens that belief of mine. Older players who haven't improved their shooting are en vogue on this board.

Jackson's shot is very concerning. However, if Warriors will be one of the dominant teams for the next several years, you will need a tall, fast defender to try and slow down Durant, if possible. Jackson and Isaac are probably the 2 best prospects for that. If the Lakers take Jackson, who do the sixers take?

Ball-position of need, guard pgs, great in transition
Or
Isaac + Monk-trade back 3+Okafor for 5+ 10, trade 10 + Holmes for 7

cksdayoff · Post #1207 » by **cksdayoff** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:32 am

josh jackson isn't gonna slow down kevin durant.

JoelNoel · Post #1208 » by **JoelNoel** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:39 am

Lakers bringing back Ball for a second visit and Fultz for his first.

Skates · Post #1209 » by **Skates** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:18 am

cksdayoff wrote:josh jackson isn't gonna slow down kevin durant.

That is what worries me about Josh Jackson perimeter shut down defender. No one really shuts down Durant, LBJ, etc, but the guys he is often compared to like Iggy or Pippen at the high end and guys like that had exceptional wingspan length. Jackson has narrow shoulders, not a powerful build (not overly scrawny or anything, just not much room to add muscle) and relatively short arms. He is plenty athletic enough, but I don't see him being a shut down defender, while he may be a better scorer than some expect, not unlike Wiggins to some extent in both aspects.

Other than Fultz I like a lot of players in this draft, but I have no love affair with any. Give me 5 and 10 instead of 3 and Okafor.

76ciology · Post #1210 » by **76ciology** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:31 am

cksdayoff wrote:josh jackson isn't gonna slow down kevin durant.

Then put Ben Simmons or RoCo at KD then let JJ handle Klay or Curry.

It's not straightforward

NBA Moses · Post #1211 » by **NBA Moses** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:33 am

cksdayoff wrote:josh jackson isn't gonna slow down kevin durant.

Durant is 6'11 with a 7'5" wingspan.

Josh Jackson is 6'8 with a 6'8 " wingspan.

I heard Legler compare Josh jackson to Kawai Leonard but doesnt Leonard have a freakish 7'3" wingspan. makes a huge difference.

Arsenal · Post #1212 » by **Arsenal** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:42 am

Exactly. Josh Jackson has a short wingspan. Nowhere close to guys like Pippen, Kawhi, Iggy that he gets compared to. All those guys were way longer. All those guys were way stronger. Jackson has a slight frame and I don't think he'll get much stronger, certainly not like those guys. The wing with a short wingspan who made it is Jimmy Butler, but Butler is also way stronger and has a more stout frame than Jackson.

All in all, I think Jackson's defense is overrated. I don't think he'll be a stopper at all. I think there's virtually no chance he's ever as good of a defender as Robert Covington is.

JojoSlimbiid · Post #1213 » by **JojoSlimbiid** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:46 am

76ciology wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:josh jackson isn't gonna slow down kevin durant.

Then put Ben Simmons or RoCo at KD then let JJ handle Klay or Curry.

It's not straightforward

ROLF

Mik317 · Post #1214 » by **Mik317** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:48 am

Jackson loses inches on his wingspan every day around here

Skates · Post #1215 » by **Skates** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:51 am

Looking at the top 10-12 players:

Jackson, Ball, Smith and Monk are all gator armed for their heights.

Tatum, Isaac, and Fox have decent length for their height.

Makanen plays no D so who cares. Zack Collins isn't uber long, but has nice height for a big.

Fultz, Ntlikina and Mitchell are the only exceptionally long armed guys near the top of the draft.

DX lists Kennard near top ten and short arms again.

Jay Bilas will find little joy in this group.

eagereyez · Post #1216 » by **eagereyez** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:57 am

Mik317 wrote:Jackson loses inches on his wingspan every day around here

http://fansided.com/2015/06/26/average-nba-draft-measurements-by-position-for-2015/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Jackson-7239/

He has a slightly below average wingspan among SFs. Guys like Kawhi, Pippen, Iguodala, Giannis, etc. all have freakishly long wingspans in the top 5%.

76ciology · Post #1217 » by **76ciology** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:57 am

Im probably the first here who raised his wingspan issue.

But why not think of JJ as a SG who has the athleticism to play some SF&PF? Trend is going for positionless anyway while 2 of our top 3 players are big forwards who got the tools to defend guys like KD&LBJ.

With BS&RoCo, you're going to need someone to play D against quicker SGs anyway.

Chris76 · Post #1218 » by **Chris76** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:18 am

76ciology wrote:Im probably the first here who raised his wingspan issue.

But why not think of JJ as a SG who has the athleticism to play some SF&PF? Trend is going for positionless anyway while 2 of our top 3 players are big forwards who got the tools to defend guys like KD&LBJ.

With BS&RoCo, you're going to need someone to play D against quicker SGs anyway.

JJ has fast hands and quick feet. His instincts on defense are elite. What he lacks in wingspan, he gains in speed and quickness. Unfortunately, Lebron struggled at defending Durant, obviously a rookie is gonna do worse. Similarly, Isaac may be the best prospect for perimeter defense. Isaac has the elite wingspan and surprisingly has quick feet and hands.

Negrodamus · Post #1219 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:20 am

eagereyez wrote:
Mik317 wrote:Jackson loses inches on his wingspan every day around here

http://fansided.com/2015/06/26/average-nba-draft-measurements-by-position-for-2015/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Jackson-7239/

He has a slightly below average wingspan among SFs. Guys like Kawhi, Pippen, Iguodala, Giannis, etc. all have freakishly long wingspans in the top 5%.

Apparently small hands too, unlike the aforementioned list. Isaac reportedly has small hands as well

Skates · Post #1220 » by **Skates** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:27 am

Negrodamus wrote:
eagereyez wrote:
Mik317 wrote:Jackson loses inches on his wingspan every day around here

http://fansided.com/2015/06/26/average-nba-draft-measurements-by-position-for-2015/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Jackson-7239/

He has a slightly below average wingspan among SFs. Guys like Kawhi, Pippen, Iguodala, Giannis, etc. all have freakishly long wingspans in the top 5%.

Apparently small hands too, unlike the aforementioned list. Isaac reportedly has small hands as well

Have read some concern about Isaac not having great hands in general, but Jackson seems to catch and grab most things that come his way.

Those guys with freakishly long wing spans are also freakishly good defensive players. If Jackson was longer he would easily be in consideration for the top pick, but he isn't.