2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread IV

[shawn_hemp]

Malik Monk should hope he gets drafted to Philly. We're one of the few teams that could have him play PG without having to actually be a PG.

I think he can definitely guard 1s in the NBA, and at least be able to switch onto 2s

Starting to think my dream scenario would be trading down to get Tatum and Monk, signing a free agent PG, and going into the season with this rotation

Jrue Holiday / Monk / Bayless
TLC / Stauskas / Korkmaz?
Roco / Tatum / Korkmaz?
Simmons / Saric / Long
Embiid / Holmes / Okafor???

Either way, our bench is going to be solid. Should keep us in a lot of games

[Unbreakable99]

Read on Twitter

[76ciology]

Malik Monk should hope he gets drafted to Philly. We're one of the few teams that could have him play PG without having to actually be a PG.

I think he can definitely guard 1s in the NBA, and at least be able to switch onto 2s

Starting to think my dream scenario would be trading down to get Tatum and Monk, signing a free agent PG, and going into the season with this rotation

Jrue Holiday / Monk / Bayless
TLC / Stauskas / Korkmaz?
Roco / Tatum / Korkmaz?
Simmons / Saric / Long
Embiid / Holmes / Okafor???

Either way, our bench is going to be solid. Should keep us in a lot of games

Me 2. I think he fits well woth us. It's just aside from his scoring, he doesn't provide any high impact on other areas. And one can imagine how his impact is when his shooting is off.

[76ciology]

Read on Twitter

“The NBA is changing so much,” Jackson said when we asked him how he might look alongside another long wing. “You look at two of the best teams in the league: Cavs and Warriors. At the end of the game when it’s winning time, there is no five-man on the court; there is no four-man on the court. There’s pretty much forwards and guards all playing at the same time. So I don’t really think me and Brandon being the same position would cause any problems. I think it would be really special, honestly.”

To offer an oversimplified version of things: the Lakers could target a guard like Lonzo Ball or Markelle Fultz who would immediately help the offense, or a player like Jackson could help more in building a versatile, defensive group.

I asked Jackson where he thinks he fits best on both ends of an NBA floor.

“With the way the game is going today, I think I can guard one through four,” he said. “But back then probably 10 years ago, your four-man probably would have been 6’10” or something like that, so probably not. But the way the game is changing so much today, versatility is pretty important and I think I bring a lot to the table, especially being to switch on any position except the five.”

I've posted this before, how a JJ-Ingram-George would be something I'd drool for. That's the direction/risk they need to take if they are committed in beating the Warriors.

If you backtrack, Lakers is in total submission to the trend. ...except for the Mozgov signing that for me they've gone haywire

I can see them playing with no PG&Center. All very skilled wings who can switch on D, shoot and play warriors style basketball.

BTW, JJ sounds like a mature and smart guy.

[76ciology]

“My strengths: quick, versatile, athletic, a great passer,” he listed. “Weaknesses: probably ball handling a little bit and probably still my shooting stroke. But both of those are coming along.”

- josh jackson

[GabeCerebro]

Jackson with that awful form still shot a better percentage than Fox, Tatum, Smith. That should say as much if not more about those prospects. It tells me at least Jackson has some type of touch and if he corrects his mechanics he could be a league average shooter from distance in the NBA.

However, Fox, Smith, Tatum's forms are pretty good, much better mechanics, but shot worse. That's scary. At least you can look at Jackson and find things to correct. If it's touch, sense of accuracy issues with Fox, Smith, Tatum then that's a bigger issue because that's an innate ability.

If Jackson's shot sucks, at least he'll give you other things. Defense, attack the rim, passing. I think him not shooting impacts his NBA game much less than the others. If Tatum can't shoot in the NBA he's pretty much useless. If Smith can't shoot he'll be a high volume, low efficiency player. If Fox can't shoot, he'll be a quicker faster version of Elfrid Payton.

Exactly. And for this reason he's still my #1 other than Fultz.

[GabeCerebro]

id rather have dsj than lonzo at #3

The odds that he'll ever be an above league average shooter on high volume are very low.

lmao

[Kolkmania]

Jackson with that awful form still shot a better percentage than Fox, Tatum, Smith. That should say as much if not more about those prospects. It tells me at least Jackson has some type of touch and if he corrects his mechanics he could be a league average shooter from distance in the NBA.

However, Fox, Smith, Tatum's forms are pretty good, much better mechanics, but shot worse. That's scary. At least you can look at Jackson and find things to correct. If it's touch, sense of accuracy issues with Fox, Smith, Tatum then that's a bigger issue because that's an innate ability.

Exactly. And for this reason he's still my #1 other than Fultz.

No it does not say more on it's own. Scoring 34 out of 90 attempts is such a small sample size that the percentage isn't conclusive at all. I think that the combination of three point percentage, three point volume, free throw percentage, high school shooting, shooting form, footwork and consistency forms a more educated guess.

Josh Jackson has a terrible form, shooting in two motions, low release point, his footwork (especially off the catch) is atrocious and his volume, FT% and high school history is also really poor.

Fox, has historically bad 3PT% and 3PA and I'm not a fan of his form since he brings it too far back, but I like it better than Jackson's. That said, he's a far better FT shooter, shot nearly 34% out of ~500 attempts at high school from three (just one foot closer to the basket) and his footwork problems are heavily correlated to his lack of lower body strength.

Dennis Smith jr. and Jayson Tatum are overall far better bets on becoming an average three point shooter than Jackson and Fox imo, not even going to discuss their evaluations on the aforementioned points.

Note: I'm not saying that Jackson will become the worst shooter of the four prospects, just that I think the chance(!) him becoming the worst is the most significant.

If Jackson's shot sucks, at least he'll give you other things. Defense, attack the rim, passing. I think him not shooting impacts his NBA game much less than the others. If Tatum can't shoot in the NBA he's pretty much useless. If Smith can't shoot he'll be a high volume, low efficiency player. If Fox can't shoot, he'll be a quicker faster version of Elfrid Payton.

As a prospect on itself I agree with this, but this is the point where fit matters to me. Since Simmons and Embiid are the superior prospects I don't want an inferior one holding them back. With both Simmons and Jackson on the court the spacing will be absolutely horrible, allowing at least one, probably two opponents to help off their man and clog the lanes.

[ET Da Gawd]

Just draft Ball!!!!


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[LloydFree]

josh jackson isn't gonna slow down kevin durant.

That is what worries me about Josh Jackson perimeter shut down defender. No one really shuts down Durant, LBJ, etc, but the guys he is often compared to like Iggy or Pippen at the high end and guys like that had exceptional wingspan length. Jackson has narrow shoulders, not a powerful build (not overly scrawny or anything, just not much room to add muscle) and relatively short arms. He is plenty athletic enough, but I don't see him being a shut down defender, while he may be a better scorer than some expect, not unlike Wiggins to some extent in both aspects.

Other than Fultz I like a lot of players in this draft, but I have no love affair with any. Give me 5 and 10 instead of 3 and Okafor.

I actually agree with you to a certain extent with regards to Josh Jackson's defense. But I also think his Offense will be better than some think. Skills from college don't project one-to-one to the pros. For me defense on the college level is just an indicator that either you have better over-all instincts or better athleticism than your peers. I don't know that he will be a lockdown defender in the NBA, but he is ahead of his draft peers in that regard. With regards to offense, he's going to be much better than some guys think. What gets missed on Jackson is he can get to any spot on the floor to get whatever shot he wants, and if you happen to cut him off, he has the awareness to pass the ball. Some people think offense begins and ends on pull-up jump shooting. The offensive stars of the game in the NBA, can beat their man and get to where they want on the court.

The college game is more congested. The college game is, and always has been a guards game, specifically PGs. Wings are devalued and always have been devalued in the college game. Josh Jackson is more Offensively skilled than Andrew Wiggins. But because he doesn't have the shooting form, people can't see it. Jackson's offensive game will translate to the pros smoother than people think, because there is more room for him to create.

[freshie2]

How is JJ more offensively skilled than Wiggins? In a tight game you're almost forced to take him off the court due to his FT percentage, plus will his quickness actually be true when he is guarded by wing players vs college power forwards?

[Vince5693]

Malik Monk should hope he gets drafted to Philly. We're one of the few teams that could have him play PG without having to actually be a PG.

I think he can definitely guard 1s in the NBA, and at least be able to switch onto 2s

Starting to think my dream scenario would be trading down to get Tatum and Monk, signing a free agent PG, and going into the season with this rotation

Jrue Holiday / Monk / Bayless
TLC / Stauskas / Korkmaz?
Roco / Tatum / Korkmaz?
Simmons / Saric / Long
Embiid / Holmes / Okafor???

Either way, our bench is going to be solid. Should keep us in a lot of games

I wouldn't be mad. But in this scenario, I think roco runs the 2 and Tatum starts at the 3.

[LloydFree]

How is JJ more offensively skilled than Wiggins? In a tight game you're almost forced to take him off the court due to his FT percentage, plus will his quickness actually be true when he is guarded by wing players vs college power forwards?

Andrew Wiggins couldn't and still can't dribble a basketball. He can't beat anybody. He's had to live and die by the step back mid-range jumper.

[SelfishPlayer]

josh jackson isn't gonna slow down kevin durant.

That is what worries me about Josh Jackson perimeter shut down defender. No one really shuts down Durant, LBJ, etc, but the guys he is often compared to like Iggy or Pippen at the high end and guys like that had exceptional wingspan length. Jackson has narrow shoulders, not a powerful build (not overly scrawny or anything, just not much room to add muscle) and relatively short arms. He is plenty athletic enough, but I don't see him being a shut down defender, while he may be a better scorer than some expect, not unlike Wiggins to some extent in both aspects.

Other than Fultz I like a lot of players in this draft, but I have no love affair with any. Give me 5 and 10 instead of 3 and Okafor.

I actually agree with you to a certain extent with regards to Josh Jackson's defense. But I also think his Offense will be better than some think. Skills from college don't project one-to-one to the pros. For me defense on the college level is just an indicator that either you have better over-all instincts or better athleticism than your peers. I don't know that he will be a lockdown defender in the NBA, but he is ahead of his draft peers in that regard. With regards to offense, he's going to be much better than some guys think. What gets missed on Jackson is he can get to any spot on the floor to get whatever shot he wants, and if you happen to cut him off, he has the awareness to pass the ball. The "Buddy Hield think tank" segment on this board thinks offense begins and ends on pull-up jump shooting. The offensive stars of the game in the NBA, can beat their man and get to where they want on the court.

The college game is more congested. The college game is, and always has been a guards game, specifically PGs. Wings are devalued and always have been devalued in the college game. Josh Jackson is more Offensively skilled than Andrew Wiggins. But because he doesn't have the shooting form, people can't see it. Jackson's offensive game will translate to the pros smoother than people think, because there is more room for him to create.

Josh Jackson can not get to wherever he wants on th floor. He's a lessor prospect than Wiggins and Jaylen Brown IMO who both played the true wing position in college displaying wing moves in the halfcourt against set defenses. Josh Jackson is a product of the system they ran that gave him a mismatch every single game placing him at PF against scrubs that were not stronger than him and could never move as well as him. DLo, college SG, people projected him as an NBA PG and he has failed at that position. Evan Turner, college point forward, Sixers inserted him at SG and asked him to play off of the ball like a SG and he failed. Josh Jackson a 20 year old freshman college PF that people are projecting to be an NBA SF/SG, failure is on the horizon...

[51X3RF4N]

Here's what I think happened:

Lakers were debating Fox and Ball, and then someone gave Jackson a promise at 3.

Lakers thought "if it's boston, then Jackson won't work out for us a second time most likely, so let's have him in again to find out if Boston promised him. And if it was philly, then we want to try to trade down 1 spot and get our pick back (even though thats a no), so let's make it look like we might take Jackson since clearly they love him. Also, let's get Ball and Fultz back in here in case Boston does take Jackson."


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[freshie2]

How is JJ more offensively skilled than Wiggins? In a tight game you're almost forced to take him off the court due to his FT percentage, plus will his quickness actually be true when he is guarded by wing players vs college power forwards?

Andrew Wiggins couldn't and still can't dribble a basketball. He can't beat anybody. He's had to live and die by the step back mid-range jumper.

Maybe what you were trying to say he's a better ball handler, but I don't think anyone should shoots in the 50 percent range at the line is a superior offensive talent to many.

[Kobblehead]

In addition to Malik Monk, both Josh Hart and Dillon Brooks are expected to be in for a workout on Thursday.

[freshie2]

I'd like Hart in the second round...solid player who definitely could contribute.

[LloydFree]

How is JJ more offensively skilled than Wiggins? In a tight game you're almost forced to take him off the court due to his FT percentage, plus will his quickness actually be true when he is guarded by wing players vs college power forwards?

Andrew Wiggins couldn't and still can't dribble a basketball. He can't beat anybody. He's had to live and die by the step back mid-range jumper.

Maybe what you were trying to say he's a better ball handler, but I don't think anyone should shoots in the 50 percent range at the line is a superior offensive talent to many.

If free-throw shooting is your measurement of offensive talent, then I don't know what to say you.

Josh Jackson is an infinitely better ballhandler than Wiggins.
Josh Jackson is an infinitely better passer than Wiggins.
Josh Jackson has infinitely better body control than Wiggins
Josh Jackson is a better finisher at the rim than Wiggins.
Josh Jackson shot better on catch and shoot than Wiggins.
Josh Jackson shot better from the 3 point line than Wiggins.
Wiggins has a better vertical and hits Free-throws, so he's better...

[Kobblehead]

Wiggins: 63.6% finisher, 33.8% from midrange, 34.1% from three, 9.2% assist percentage
Jackson: 69% finisher, 38.1% from midrange, 37.8% from three, 18.2% assist percentage

Hmmm.