Draft Discussion Part 3

[darealjuice]

I'd like to see numbers and where you're getting the....where is this nonsense coming from. Collins destroys this kid so hard.

Bookers shot is fine, when you go from number 1 option in HS, to 6th man in college to #1 option on the best basketball platform in the world, yes... It's going to take a year or so to settle in.

Devin is a generational talent. If you can't see that, you are bad at basketball eyes.

What exactly does Collins do to "destroy this kid so hard" ..? I like him, and advanced stats are cool and all, but they shouldn't be taken as gospel when he's playing as a backup center in the WCC.

[LukasBMW]

I want Tatum. Final Choice.

Same. Jackson or Isaac has more potential on defense but they also has some red flags. Tatum is probably the safest choice along with Fultz.

If we don't take Tatum, we will regret it. He and Fultz are the only ones with NBA moves, NBA build, and NBA speed at their position.

No redflags on the shot like Jackson, Fox, and Ball
No character flags like Jackson and Ball
No confidence flags or timidness like Issac
No injury red flags like Smith.

I do worry about his fit with TJ (I'm still VERY high on TJ), but he can start by backing up TJ. If they both play well (which I think is a strong possibility) then I think we can get away with smallball in the future:

PG
Booker
TJ
Tatum
Chriss/Bender

I'm drooling over a Booker/Tatum high screen and roll for isolation mismatches with TJ and Chriss slashing and cleaning up the offensive glass. It could be like having Harden and PG3 on the same team.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'd like to see numbers and where you're getting the....where is this nonsense coming from. Collins destroys this kid so hard.

Bookers shot is fine, when you go from number 1 option in HS, to 6th man in college to #1 option on the best basketball platform in the world, yes... It's going to take a year or so to settle in.

Devin is a generational talent. If you can't see that, you are bad at basketball eyes.

What exactly does Collins do to "destroy this kid so hard" ..? I like him, and advanced stats are cool and all, but they shouldn't be taken as gospel when he's playing as a backup center in the WCC.

I'm with Sunsbum re the Collins love. What really stands out to me are (1) his touch around the rim, (2) his motor, and (3) his willingness to go straight up into contact on both ends. I said this before - Collins reminds me of Steve Nash. I think we'll regret passing on him.

I've also said that I understand why Tatum, Isaac, Fox and maybe some others are ahead of Collins on draft boards in any event. A BWS is no GM's crowning achievement. But in this case, I think it makes sense to exploit the consensus. Trade down for Collins and upgrade the roster in the process.

[Djedefre]

I'm still not on board with Issac. Usually these versatile players grow on me as we get closer to the draft but it hasn't happened with him. I don't like that his most valuable skill (defense) is still in the potential category. Tatum's most valuable skill is actually a skill right now which makes me lean heavily towards his corner.

When comparing the two offensively Tatum shot a worse % from 3 and far worse % from inside the arc. Tatum took more shots and averaged about an assist more a game but it's not like either one are known for their passing.

Tatum's offensive game is far more in the potential category than Isaac's defensive game. Just because Tatum's O looks smooth I think people confuse it with actual production. Kind of like Bookers 3pt shot; it looks nice but so far it hasn't went in enough to actually make him a good 3pt shooter.

Yeah, Tatum's offense is so smooth and advanced, yet you take a look at his shot chart and see only shades of orange and even red. When people talk about his O game they're speculating and projecting but kinda unaware of it. Not knowing how Isaac would fare against NBA competition, with higher usage and more scoring duties is a legit concern, but that doesn't instantly make Tatum an elite scorer. Because he's not. At least not yet. Someone said that Isaac is a project and doesn't excel at any particular aspect of the game. And what about Tatum? What's his forte? 3pt shooting, rebounding, blocking, low-post/high-post game, driving, attacking the rim, perimeter/interior defense? No, he's exactly that mister average, and all this love for him comes from the expectations that he's capable of improving and becoming some kind of Melo 2.0. It could happen eventually, but what actual skill are we talking about?

[Zelaznyrules]

I'm still not on board with Issac. Usually these versatile players grow on me as we get closer to the draft but it hasn't happened with him. I don't like that his most valuable skill (defense) is still in the potential category. Tatum's most valuable skill is actually a skill right now which makes me lean heavily towards his corner.

I'm a little confused by this take. I don't know how Isaac's D can be called "potential" when he put up one of the best combinations of defensive rebounding, steal %, and block % of any player this past decade. That's actual production.

What skill of Tatum's are you referring to? When comparing the two offensively Tatum shot a worse % from 3 and far worse % from inside the arc. Tatum took more shots and averaged about an assist more a game but it's not like either one are known for their passing.

Tatum's offensive game is far more in the potential category than Isaac's defensive game. Just because Tatum's O looks smooth I think people confuse it with actual production. Kind of like Bookers 3pt shot; it looks nice but so far it hasn't went in enough to actually make him a good 3pt shooter.

With all that said I'm starting to like Tatum more than I did a week ago. I went back and watched some more of him and I've talked myself into believing he can be at least be decent defensively and I'll take the optimistic approach that his shot will start going in more.

I still like Isaac a lot and personally would probably take him over Tatum but his hands scare me a little bit and I don't love the asthma thing.

I agree with all of this and I'm especially concerned about the limitations asthma might create.

[starbosa10]

I'm fine with any of Jackson, Ball, Tatum. One of them will be there at 4. Not a huge Ball fan but if he falls to 4 I think we have to take the gamble on him over someone like Isaac

[DirtyDez]

Tatum gets me at the end.

Read on Twitter

[JMac1]

I want Tatum. Final Choice.

Same. Jackson or Isaac has more potential on defense but they also has some red flags. Tatum is probably the safest choice along with Fultz.

If we don't take Tatum, we will regret it. He and Fultz are the only ones with NBA moves, NBA build, and NBA speed at their position.

No redflags on the shot like Jackson, Fox, and Ball
No character flags like Jackson and Ball
No confidence flags or timidness like Issac
No injury red flags like Smith.

I do worry about his fit with TJ (I'm still VERY high on TJ), but he can start by backing up TJ. If they both play well (which I think is a strong possibility) then I think we can get away with smallball in the future:

PG
Booker
TJ
Tatum
Chriss/Bender

I'm drooling over a Booker/Tatum high screen and roll for isolation mismatches with TJ and Chriss slashing and cleaning up the offensive glass. It could be like having Harden and PG3 on the same team.

Solid analysis....

[Sunzgunz]

Fox is gonna workout for the Sixers.

It is really strange, but Monk is the only other high prospect that they have seen.

No Fultz, No Ball, No Jackson, No Tatum, No Isaac.

L.A. RUMOR:
*Lakers select...
#2 - Josh Jackson
#3 - Lonzo Ball (l.a. trades D Russ for the 3 spot)

*Philly is hell bent on getting back in the draft....ideally 4 spot as they have a fox to Sacramento for 5 and 10, provided fox is available. Someone on the 76er board posted like an okafor and dario sarcic for the number 4 spot....i think they wanted to swap 2 of their later 2nd rounders for are 32 spot.

If Ball and Jackson are gone, as much as I like fox, id be down for giv8ng the 4 for 5 and 10 spot. We can grab isaac or Tatum with the 5 and hope monk or dsj falls....if not, markkanen, Collins, even allen would work.


Buckle up....could be busiest draft in quite some time.

[JMac1]

Fox is gonna workout for the Sixers.

It is really strange, but Monk is the only other high prospect that they have seen.

No Fultz, No Ball, No Jackson, No Tatum, No Isaac.

L.A. RUMOR:
*Lakers select...
#2 - Josh Jackson
#3 - Lonzo Ball (l.a. trades D Russ for the 3 spot)

*Philly is hell bent on getting back in the draft....ideally 4 spot as they have a fox to Sacramento for 5 and 10, provided fox is available. Someone on the 76er board posted like an okafor and dario sarcic for the number 4 spot....i think they wanted to swap 2 of their later 2nd rounders for are 32 spot.

If Ball and Jackson are gone, as much as I like fox, id be down for giv8ng the 4 for 5 and 10 spot. We can grab isaac or Tatum with the 5 and hope monk or dsj falls....if not, markkanen, Collins, even allen would work.


Buckle up....could be busiest draft in quite some time.

Man....I would Love Tatum/ Monk draft or Lauri.

Side note: on the shooting of Tatum; you guys have to remember that he is doing a lot of his shooting in ISO, so his numbers won't look as good as a shooter who is taking wide-open shots.

Would you not take Kobe or Harden or Westbrookbecause their shooting numbers aren't great either.

[BobbieL]

Fox is gonna workout for the Sixers.

It is really strange, but Monk is the only other high prospect that they have seen.

No Fultz, No Ball, No Jackson, No Tatum, No Isaac.

L.A. RUMOR:
*Lakers select...
#2 - Josh Jackson
#3 - Lonzo Ball (l.a. trades D Russ for the 3 spot)

*Philly is hell bent on getting back in the draft....ideally 4 spot as they have a fox to Sacramento for 5 and 10, provided fox is available. Someone on the 76er board posted like an okafor and dario sarcic for the number 4 spot....i think they wanted to swap 2 of their later 2nd rounders for are 32 spot.

If Ball and Jackson are gone, as much as I like fox, id be down for giv8ng the 4 for 5 and 10 spot. We can grab isaac or Tatum with the 5 and hope monk or dsj falls....if not, markkanen, Collins, even allen would work.


Buckle up....could be busiest draft in quite some time.

When does LA lose protection on that pick. If they have Ball, Josh Jackson and Ingram - they will be pretty bad next year. That is one young team

I was still hoping for D'angelo Russell using Bledsoe to get a top 10 pick to ship to LA for Russell. Russell Booker and the 4th pick. Part of me - depending on the board - would be okay with Russell and the 9th pick - using the 4 for Russell. But only part of me

[ATTL]

Fox is gonna workout for the Sixers.

It is really strange, but Monk is the only other high prospect that they have seen.

No Fultz, No Ball, No Jackson, No Tatum, No Isaac.

L.A. RUMOR:
*Lakers select...
#2 - Josh Jackson
#3 - Lonzo Ball (l.a. trades D Russ for the 3 spot)

*Philly is hell bent on getting back in the draft....ideally 4 spot as they have a fox to Sacramento for 5 and 10, provided fox is available. Someone on the 76er board posted like an okafor and dario sarcic for the number 4 spot....i think they wanted to swap 2 of their later 2nd rounders for are 32 spot.

If Ball and Jackson are gone, as much as I like fox, id be down for giv8ng the 4 for 5 and 10 spot. We can grab isaac or Tatum with the 5 and hope monk or dsj falls....if not, markkanen, Collins, even allen would work.


Buckle up....could be busiest draft in quite some time.

When does LA lose protection on that pick. If they have Ball, Josh Jackson and Ingram - they will be pretty bad next year. That is one young team

I was still hoping for D'angelo Russell using Bledsoe to get a top 10 pick to ship to LA for Russell. Russell Booker and the 4th pick. Part of me - depending on the board - would be okay with Russell and the 9th pick - using the 4 for Russell. But only part of me

LA pick is unprotected next year

[JMac1]

Man......when I read about and watch Isaac on defense (especially him picking up guards 90ft from the hoop) I do kind of salivate. He could become a taller Draymond....and obviously you need those guys just as much as Klay.

Drain open threes. Rebound. Defend all positions.

Tatum or Issac for me.

Edit: did I just say Isaac?!? Good job Ginobli!

[Sreister]

Man......when I read about and watch Isaac on defense (especially him picking up guards 90ft from the hoop) I do kind of salivate. He could become a taller Draymond....and obviously you need those guys just as much as Klay.

Drain open threes. Rebound. Defend all positions.

Tatum or Issac for me.

Edit: did I just say Isaac?!? Good job Ginobli!

Man, I do like Isaac a lot. I'm just nervous he'll be taking away from our huge investment in PF/C from last years draft. That's 3 guys that will roughly play the same position. But, I still think Isaac is the way to go, regardless.

[carey]

Though not asked specifically about the Suns’ recent weekend trip to L.A. to watch Tatum workout, Connelly was asked what he liked about the Duke freshman, who averaged 16.8 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.1 blocks and 1.3 steals in 29 games.

“He’s really skilled. He’s a really good shooter,” Connelly said. “As he came back from his injury at Duke, he showed that he was one of the better players in the nation down the stretch. Throughout the whole season he played really well, but really kind of found his feet later in the season. Good size; can do a bunch of different things.”

— Twice the Suns have visited with Isaac, once in Las Vegas and then again in Phoenix on Monday.

At 6-foot-11, Isaac offers a lot of potential. In his one season at Florida State, he averaged 12 points, 7.8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks and 1.2 steals.

“He’s long, he’s skilled, he’s multi-dimensional. He’s a really good kid. Obviously, the Florida State guys did a good job with him,” Connelly said. “I think another guy that can kind of really mix it up and doesn’t have really one specific skill that you can kind of say he relies on that. He can do a whole lot of things really well.”

https://arizonasports.com/story/1147637/following-recent-visits-with-tatum-and-isaac-suns-work-out-zach-collins/

Finally found someone that says "really" more than I do. Learn a new adverb, Pat.

[carey]

Man, I do like Isaac a lot. I'm just nervous he'll be taking away from our huge investment in PF/C from last years draft. That's 3 guys that will roughly play the same position. But, I still think Isaac is the way to go, regardless.

It doesn't matter. Anyone but Collins necessitates a move has to be made to clear up a logjam. My problem with Isaac is that everything about him seems to be an unknown. We're banking on his measurables and the idea that his defense can translate. I said several months ago the thought of Isaac and Bender switching together on the perimeter to the interior seamlessly would be very interesting. That said there's little to no chance Watson would play them together. Also if you select Isaac you have to play Bender at C or you have to trade him.

I do think Isaac has the biggest bust potential of the top 10. This would be a swing for the fences type pick that you desperately hope pans out 3 years from now.

[Waylay13]

If the lakers dont take Jackson I am more inclined to trade the 4th and the 2018 Miami pick to move to 3rd and take Jackson. I think if the suns get jackson and dont trade Bledsoe I can see the suns making a run for the 8th spot. If they end up with Issac or Tatum or trade Bledsoe we can look at a repeat of this year followed by another heartbreak as we get kicked out of the selecting the real difference makers at the top of the lottery.

[RaisingArizona]

Man......when I read about and watch Isaac on defense (especially him picking up guards 90ft from the hoop) I do kind of salivate. He could become a taller Draymond....and obviously you need those guys just as much as Klay.

Drain open threes. Rebound. Defend all positions.

Tatum or Issac for me.

Edit: did I just say Isaac?!? Good job Ginobli!

[bwgood77]

I'm still not on board with Issac. Usually these versatile players grow on me as we get closer to the draft but it hasn't happened with him. I don't like that his most valuable skill (defense) is still in the potential category. Tatum's most valuable skill is actually a skill right now which makes me lean heavily towards his corner.

When comparing the two offensively Tatum shot a worse % from 3 and far worse % from inside the arc. Tatum took more shots and averaged about an assist more a game but it's not like either one are known for their passing.

Tatum's offensive game is far more in the potential category than Isaac's defensive game. Just because Tatum's O looks smooth I think people confuse it with actual production. Kind of like Bookers 3pt shot; it looks nice but so far it hasn't went in enough to actually make him a good 3pt shooter.

Yeah, Tatum's offense is so smooth and advanced, yet you take a look at his shot chart and see only shades of orange and even red. When people talk about his O game they're speculating and projecting but kinda unaware of it. Not knowing how Isaac would fare against NBA competition, with higher usage and more scoring duties is a legit concern, but that doesn't instantly make Tatum an elite scorer. Because he's not. At least not yet. Someone said that Isaac is a project and doesn't excel at any particular aspect of the game. And what about Tatum? What's his forte? 3pt shooting, rebounding, blocking, low-post/high-post game, driving, attacking the rim, perimeter/interior defense? No, he's exactly that mister average, and all this love for him comes from the expectations that he's capable of improving and becoming some kind of Melo 2.0. It could happen eventually, but what actual skill are we talking about?

Yeah, this doesn't particularly look smooth and advanced. He's pretty terrible from inside the arc other than right around the rim...definitely not TJ like in there. And then he really only looks advanced from one spot from 3. I mean his #s don't look too much better than JJ's. A bit better from mid range but worse from 3. Now I'm not saying JJ will translate better but it only gets tougher to shoot 3s from nba distance and against nba defenders.

[bwgood77]

Tatum gets me at the end.

Read on Twitter

Ball is hilarious. He's basically mocking and making fun of his dad.