2017 Draft

[MHZ]

I think high IQ is more important than "rim protector". Teams force switches to get players out of position. IQ can adjust easier than athletic ability.

Not at this level. I'm not advocating drafting the next Javale McGee, so I agree there's a middle ground, but I am advocating drafting somebody who has the athleticism and length to potentially be a high end plus defender, given that we have none of those guys, and with Jokic, those guys are critical.

[NuggetsWY]

I think high IQ is more important than "rim protector". Teams force switches to get players out of position. IQ can adjust easier than athletic ability.

Not at this level. I'm not advocating drafting the next Javale McGee, so I agree there's a middle ground, but I am advocating drafting somebody who has the athleticism and length to potentially be a high end plus defender, given that we have none of those guys, and with Jokic, those guys are critical.

and thus my preference for Anunoby, or someone of similar type - defense, quickness, length ; or gamble on Giles or ... ... just someone who already is oriented towards defense (usually takes high IQ to be any good at defense) - I also think the Nuggets should be looking not for best player available but the best athletic individual with the best IQ

[The Rebel]

I think high IQ is more important than "rim protector". Teams force switches to get players out of position. IQ can adjust easier than athletic ability.

So, with this thought process, let me ask you a question. There's a thread in the T&T section where we facilitate a Paul George to Cleveland trade and get Kevin Love. Love has been really good switching onto GS guards the last 2 finals, but he offers zero rim protection. Are you in favor of a love/Jokic pairing?

Love is an IQ player. He has some athletic ability, no doubt. However, no one is going to call him the strongest big and yet consider his Minnesota days regarding his rebounding and low post offense. He looked like a muscle man, even against bigger players. He still plays that role part of every game for Cleveland. No one is going to claim Love is the quickest of players and yet he even played against Durant on some switches in this year's finals and he did fairly well - as well as anyone does against Durant.

He's an IQ player - he knows how to use his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. He has adapted his Minnesota style to fit in fairly well in Cleveland, even if lots of fans don't like him. He's effective, just consider his stats.

So yes, I would accept a Jokic/Love pairing. I do not think it's ideal simply because Love would be wasting his peak years with a team that is not ready to compete. Jokic would learn a lot from Love. Love would make a good backup center. Love would make a good starting PF. Jokic at the high-post with Love hanging out for the corner three and he is deadly there. Then imagine Love flashing across the paint with Jokic giving him a Jokic-classic pass - BOOM! Hmm, maybe I'd like this a lot for Denver.

While I agree with you in a vacuum high bbiq is more important than shot blocking (I still think blocked shots is the most overrated stat in basketball), with malone's defensive system we have to have a shotblocker. The whole system is predicated on protecting against 3 point shooting, and opening up the lane for ball handlers and bigs in a pick and roll. You have to have someone that can help prevent those guys from finishing. We desperatly need a help defender from one of the forward positions if Malone is going to insist on sticking to his system.

[The Rebel]

I think high IQ is more important than "rim protector". Teams force switches to get players out of position. IQ can adjust easier than athletic ability.

Not at this level. I'm not advocating drafting the next Javale McGee, so I agree there's a middle ground, but I am advocating drafting somebody who has the athleticism and length to potentially be a high end plus defender, given that we have none of those guys, and with Jokic, those guys are critical.

and thus my preference for Anunoby, or someone of similar type - defense, quickness, length ; or gamble on Giles or ... ... just someone who already is oriented towards defense (usually takes high IQ to be any good at defense) - I also think the Nuggets should be looking not for best player available but the best athletic individual with the best IQ

Anunoby is as much or more of a gamble than Giles is, they both have major injury issues, but Anunoby is not recovered from his injuries. Giles has had a full season to fully recover, so you can get an idea if he retained/regained his athleticism or not in a workout and review of medical records now, Anunoby is likely not available to play for training camp and the 1st half of the season.

The thing is super athletic high BBiq players go early in the draft, or they have big issues. Most guys at the tail end of the lottery through the 20th pick or so you are usually getting high IQ guys with limited athleticism or very athletic guys with limited BBiq.

[MHZ]

Not at this level. I'm not advocating drafting the next Javale McGee, so I agree there's a middle ground, but I am advocating drafting somebody who has the athleticism and length to potentially be a high end plus defender, given that we have none of those guys, and with Jokic, those guys are critical.

and thus my preference for Anunoby, or someone of similar type - defense, quickness, length ; or gamble on Giles or ... ... just someone who already is oriented towards defense (usually takes high IQ to be any good at defense) - I also think the Nuggets should be looking not for best player available but the best athletic individual with the best IQ

Anunoby is as much or more of a gamble than Giles is, they both have major injury issues, but Anunoby is not recovered from his injuries. Giles has had a full season to fully recover, so you can get an idea if he retained/regained his athleticism or not in a workout and review of medical records now, Anunoby is likely not available to play for training camp and the 1st half of the season.

The thing is super athletic high BBiq players go early in the draft, or they have big issues. Most guys at the tail end of the lottery through the 20th pick or so you are usually getting high IQ guys with limited athleticism or very athletic guys with limited BBiq.

I don't agree that Anunoby has more injury concern than Giles. Yes, he's still recovering at this moment (and into the start of the season), but Giles is likely permanently a different player. OG has had one knee repair. Giles has had three - including at least one on both knees.

History tells us you can come back fine from one, but three, and both knees, is absolutely brutal.

[NuggetsWY]

So, with this thought process, let me ask you a question. There's a thread in the T&T section where we facilitate a Paul George to Cleveland trade and get Kevin Love. Love has been really good switching onto GS guards the last 2 finals, but he offers zero rim protection. Are you in favor of a love/Jokic pairing?

Love is an IQ player. He has some athletic ability, no doubt. However, no one is going to call him the strongest big and yet consider his Minnesota days regarding his rebounding and low post offense. He looked like a muscle man, even against bigger players. He still plays that role part of every game for Cleveland. No one is going to claim Love is the quickest of players and yet he even played against Durant on some switches in this year's finals and he did fairly well - as well as anyone does against Durant.

He's an IQ player - he knows how to use his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. He has adapted his Minnesota style to fit in fairly well in Cleveland, even if lots of fans don't like him. He's effective, just consider his stats.

So yes, I would accept a Jokic/Love pairing. I do not think it's ideal simply because Love would be wasting his peak years with a team that is not ready to compete. Jokic would learn a lot from Love. Love would make a good backup center. Love would make a good starting PF. Jokic at the high-post with Love hanging out for the corner three and he is deadly there. Then imagine Love flashing across the paint with Jokic giving him a Jokic-classic pass - BOOM! Hmm, maybe I'd like this a lot for Denver.

While I agree with you in a vacuum high bbiq is more important than shot blocking (I still think blocked shots is the most overrated stat in basketball), with malone's defensive system we have to have a shotblocker. The whole system is predicated on protecting against 3 point shooting, and opening up the lane for ball handlers and bigs in a pick and roll. You have to have someone that can help prevent those guys from finishing. We desperatly need a help defender from one of the forward positions if Malone is going to insist on sticking to his system.

I understand what you are saying, but that only works if you can play a zone with your rim protector in the paint - always.
In this era of stretch-4s and even stretch-5s; if I'm playing Whiteside or Gobert, I'd run a pick and get them switched onto an outsider shooter and then keep everyone else away from there so they can't switch back. If they tried to cheat down, a quick pass to a good 3pt shooter who is now open, bang!

The Nuggets were giving up a lot of open 3s, so Malone changed his defense to protect against 3s. It worked ;;; but only for the 3s. It left the Nuggets as the 2nd worst defense in the league. In the modern NBA, a team needs to protect against 3s and against drives and against low-post - all while dealing with lots of mismatches. To be a good defensive team, it must be a team defense, not 5 guys playing good man-on-man defense. Help defense is the most important aspect of any good NBA defense at this time.

[skywalker33]

If Giles does cone back to his true form, he'd be a steal at 13. However, I'm guessing he hasn't show that return in any of his workouts as of yet, otherwise he'd be rocketing up the draft boards by now. That being said, it does seem to take at least 18month to return to full recovery strength from an ACL, meaning Giles should be showing signs of where he's going to be while OG will be there around start of training camp.

[The Rebel]

and thus my preference for Anunoby, or someone of similar type - defense, quickness, length ; or gamble on Giles or ... ... just someone who already is oriented towards defense (usually takes high IQ to be any good at defense) - I also think the Nuggets should be looking not for best player available but the best athletic individual with the best IQ

Anunoby is as much or more of a gamble than Giles is, they both have major injury issues, but Anunoby is not recovered from his injuries. Giles has had a full season to fully recover, so you can get an idea if he retained/regained his athleticism or not in a workout and review of medical records now, Anunoby is likely not available to play for training camp and the 1st half of the season.

The thing is super athletic high BBiq players go early in the draft, or they have big issues. Most guys at the tail end of the lottery through the 20th pick or so you are usually getting high IQ guys with limited athleticism or very athletic guys with limited BBiq.

I don't agree that Anunoby has more injury concern than Giles. Yes, he's still recovering at this moment (and into the start of the season), but Giles is likely permanently a different player. OG has had one knee repair. Giles has had three - including at least one on both knees.

History tells us you can come back fine from one, but three, and both knees, is absolutely brutal.

I understand what you are saying, but what I am saying is that Giles has recovered enough from his injuries to get a good idea of where he will be even next season, OG is still probably at least a year from being able to see where he is going to end up after the damage from his knee injury.

[MHZ]

I guess you can get a better read on Giles recovery now than OG's, but you said bigger gamble. The bigger gamble to me is clearly the guy with some question about whether he's going to physically be able to handle being an NBA player. I think the potential downside for Giles is that his knee issues are recurring and we never really see him play, akin to a Greg Oden. I don't think it's fair to assume that same level of downside for OG because of one knee repair.

Obviously this is where your medical staff may have flags neither of us have any clue about.

[skywalker33]

Saw in latest DX mock that OG has dropped down to the 22nd pick which could be exactly what the Rebel is speaking about.

[bwgood77]

13. Denver — Zach Collins, C, Gonzaga. Collins played only 17.3 minutes per game for Gonzaga, but his per-40-minute stats are the reason teams have such interest: 23.2 points, 13.6 rebounds, 4.1 blocked shots and 65.2 percent shooting. He has shown flashes of range out to the 3-point line, and has potential as a high-post playmaker. Collins’ limited playing time means there are questions about his defense and conditioning, but his potential is obvious.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2017-rumors-order-projections-rankings-celtics-lakers-sixers-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-josh-jackson/1gaqcubaannj415d36bax2zpmt

[skywalker33]

13. Denver — Zach Collins, C, Gonzaga. Collins played only 17.3 minutes per game for Gonzaga, but his per-40-minute stats are the reason teams have such interest: 23.2 points, 13.6 rebounds, 4.1 blocked shots and 65.2 percent shooting. He has shown flashes of range out to the 3-point line, and has potential as a high-post playmaker. Collins’ limited playing time means there are questions about his defense and conditioning, but his potential is obvious.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2017-rumors-order-projections-rankings-celtics-lakers-sixers-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-josh-jackson/1gaqcubaannj415d36bax2zpmt

Makes me want to root for TSN !!

[proscout]

I'm still hoping the Nuggets can work out a trade to move up and snag Isaac. I'd much rather give up some assets to get that guy rather than stand pat and "hope a guy falls" or "draft an injury risk guy who hopefully turns out to come back to live up to his potential."

Isaac seems like a good fit with the core young guys on this team, and two year down the road with a starting lineup of:

Murray, Harris, ?, Isaac, Jokic

..... seems like it could compete pretty well.

[Riko]

I'm still hoping the Nuggets can work out a trade to move up and snag Isaac. I'd much rather give up some assets to get that guy rather than stand pat and "hope a guy falls" or "draft an injury risk guy who hopefully turns out to come back to live up to his potential."

Isaac seems like a good fit with the core young guys on this team, and two year down the road with a starting lineup of:

Murray, Harris, ?, Isaac, Jokic

..... seems like it could compete pretty well.

Agree, but I don't think that the top 6 team are willing to trade down.
Maybe the first team to trade down is Minnesota (and I think they would agree in a trade like 13th and Chandler for their 7th) but I'm pretty sure that Isaac won't fall to 7th pick...

[pickIBL]

Historically i think the nuggets would be looking to move up a few for dennis smith. If tatum or isaac is there at 5 id say the best bet is to make an offer to the kings.

13 is not a good spot. I'd either trade up or down.

[skywalker33]

Historically i think the nuggets would be looking to move up a few for dennis smith. If tatum or isaac is there at 5 id say the best bet is to make an offer to the kings.

13 is not a good spot. I'd either trade up or down.

Interesting name you mentioned, as I hear Smith's stock has been falling. Also Denver has Murray to fill the PG position so again you really show you know very little about the Nuggets. I would consider trading up to the Kings 5th spot but seriously doubt DEN would pay what the Kings would ask to move up that high.

[MidMountain]

Historically i think the nuggets would be looking to move up a few for dennis smith. If tatum or isaac is there at 5 id say the best bet is to make an offer to the kings.

13 is not a good spot. I'd either trade up or down.

Why Dennis Smith? I don't know that he has the off-ball skills to really excel next to Jokic.

I can't think of any reasonable way the Nuggets could entice the Kings to move down from #5 to #13, especially since the Kings already have the #10.

[pickIBL]

Historically i think the nuggets would be looking to move up a few for dennis smith. If tatum or isaac is there at 5 id say the best bet is to make an offer to the kings.

13 is not a good spot. I'd either trade up or down.

Why Dennis Smith? I don't know that he has the off-ball skills to really excel next to Jokic.

I can't think of any reasonable way the Nuggets could entice the Kings to move down from #5 to #13, especially since the Kings already have the #10.

Hard to say what the kings covet. I can't figure them out.

And Smith only fits if denver wants to push again. With what they are doing now i can't say he does fit.

Considering their style they might just trade down or out.

If already explained how jokic could be used uptempo. La lakers style in the 80s plus he can trail with the deep ball. But i doubt that happens

[skywalker33]

Historically i think the nuggets would be looking to move up a few for dennis smith. If tatum or isaac is there at 5 id say the best bet is to make an offer to the kings.

13 is not a good spot. I'd either trade up or down.

Why Dennis Smith? I don't know that he has the off-ball skills to really excel next to Jokic.

I can't think of any reasonable way the Nuggets could entice the Kings to move down from #5 to #13, especially since the Kings already have the #10.

Hard to say what the kings covet. I can't figure them out.

And Smith only fits if denver wants to push again. With what they are doing now i can't say he does fit.

Considering their style they might just trade down or out.

If already explained how jokic could be used uptempo. La lakers style in the 80s plus he can trail with the deep ball. But i doubt that happens

Do you ever do any research ? Denver was running at the 7th fastest pace in the NBA last year, tempo isn't a real issue for us.

The only way they'll trade out is if they get an offer they can't refuse or they feel they already have enough youth on the team with 6 player under the age of 23.

[NuggetsWY]

Why Dennis Smith? I don't know that he has the off-ball skills to really excel next to Jokic.

I can't think of any reasonable way the Nuggets could entice the Kings to move down from #5 to #13, especially since the Kings already have the #10.

Hard to say what the kings covet. I can't figure them out.

And Smith only fits if denver wants to push again. With what they are doing now i can't say he does fit.

Considering their style they might just trade down or out.

If already explained how jokic could be used uptempo. La lakers style in the 80s plus he can trail with the deep ball. But i doubt that happens

Do you ever do any research ? Denver was running at the 7th fastest pace in the NBA last year, tempo isn't a real issue for us.

The only way they'll trade out is if they get an offer they can't refuse or they feel they already have enough youth on the team with 6 player under the age of 23.

Now, now, Skywalker LOL Doing research isn't required on RealGM and we all have plenty of proof of that.
Not only was Denver "running at the 7th fastest pace in the NBA last year" but I think anyone watching the Kings would guess they probably need absolutely any good player. They have some nice prospective players, a couple pretty nice ones, but I'm not convinced any are proven yet.