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Draft Discussion Part 3

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Who would you rather have, Jackson or Tatum?

Jackson
44
80%
Tatum
11
20%
 
Total votes: 55

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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#961 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:37 pm

JMac1 wrote:
Sunzgunz wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Fox is gonna workout for the Sixers.

It is really strange, but Monk is the only other high prospect that they have seen.

No Fultz, No Ball, No Jackson, No Tatum, No Isaac.


L.A. RUMOR:
*Lakers select...
#2 - Josh Jackson
#3 - Lonzo Ball (l.a. trades D Russ for the 3 spot)

*Philly is hell bent on getting back in the draft....ideally 4 spot as they have a fox to Sacramento for 5 and 10, provided fox is available. Someone on the 76er board posted like an okafor and dario sarcic for the number 4 spot....i think they wanted to swap 2 of their later 2nd rounders for are 32 spot.

If Ball and Jackson are gone, as much as I like fox, id be down for giv8ng the 4 for 5 and 10 spot. We can grab isaac or Tatum with the 5 and hope monk or dsj falls....if not, markkanen, Collins, even allen would work.


Buckle up....could be busiest draft in quite some time.


Man....I would Love Tatum/ Monk draft or Lauri.

Side note: on the shooting of Tatum; you guys have to remember that he is doing a lot of his shooting in ISO, so his numbers won't look as good as a shooter who is taking wide-open shots.

Would you not take Kobe or Harden or Westbrookbecause their shooting numbers aren't great either.


If you are playing a lot of iso and not shooting well, then no, I wouldn't take him. I've seen enough of Brandon Knight. I don't really get the "guy not shooting well playing iso" = "he might be Kobe, Harden or Westbrook"....those guys, at least Westbrook and Kobe are super athletes, the guy most like them, but a better passer is Smith, Jr....who can score fairly effectively playing iso.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#962 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:43 pm

carey wrote:
Sreister wrote:Man, I do like Isaac a lot. I'm just nervous he'll be taking away from our huge investment in PF/C from last years draft. That's 3 guys that will roughly play the same position. But, I still think Isaac is the way to go, regardless.


It doesn't matter. Anyone but Collins necessitates a move has to be made to clear up a logjam. My problem with Isaac is that everything about him seems to be an unknown. We're banking on his measurables and the idea that his defense can translate. I said several months ago the thought of Isaac and Bender switching together on the perimeter to the interior seamlessly would be very interesting. That said there's little to no chance Watson would play them together. Also if you select Isaac you have to play Bender at C or you have to trade him.

I do think Isaac has the biggest bust potential of the top 10. This would be a swing for the fences type pick that you desperately hope pans out 3 years from now.


You don't have to trade anyone. These guys are all young and raw and chances are, all of our prospects might not pan out. You don't trade one until you know which ones will. If they all do, great. Depth isn't bad. You need 8-10 guys in the rotation. There are always injuries.

This "we have to move someone if we draft player X" is kind of a ridiculous notion for a team that won 24 games.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#963 » by Saberestar » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:43 pm

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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#964 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:58 pm

Isaac not working out for anyone outside the top 4... that's interesting.

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/14/15800740/jonathan-isaac-nba-draft-workout-rumor-suns-celtics-magic
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#965 » by Jdiddy701 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:12 pm

I'm confused why everyone wants Isaac. I don't know a lick of college ball so please help me understand. The Suns drafted Chriss and Bender last season.

Tatum is the most obvious pick.


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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#966 » by Zelaznyrules » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:13 pm

I'm hoping that, after we do all our work, we decide that Jackson and Isaac are the two really special players in this class. I don't know that they are, I just like the idea of getting a good two way player that can defend multiple positions (assuming they are as advertised). That way we hopefully won't feel the need to pursue a defense only free agent this summer.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#967 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:21 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:I'm confused why everyone wants Isaac. I don't know a lick of college ball so please help me understand. The Suns drafted Chriss and Bender last season.

Tatum is the most obvious pick.


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Isaac is probably the best defensive player in the draft. Booker needs defensive help. Isaac also spreads the floor.

I get it.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#968 » by Sreister » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:23 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:I'm confused why everyone wants Isaac. I don't know a lick of college ball so please help me understand. The Suns drafted Chriss and Bender last season.

Tatum is the most obvious pick.


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Isaac is probably the best defensive player in the draft. Booker needs defensive help. Isaac also spreads the floor.

I get it.


This, and scoring doesn't always translate well to the NBA. A good defender typically does.

Now, those are generalizations and Isaac is a bust prospect just like the rest of them, if not moreso, but at least he has defense. You can't say the same about most guys.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#969 » by nymets1 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:36 pm

Most of the Orlando Magic fans want us to select Isaac at our 6th pick if he's available. We are nervous now that Isaac doesn't want to workout with any teams below the 4th pick that it could mean Isaac has a promise from the Suns at the 4th pick. Could me and other magic fans have confidence since you guys just drafted Bender and Chriss that it wouldn't make sense for the Suns to pick Isaac? We would like Isaac available at our 6th pick if we could get assured?
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#970 » by Walt_Uoob » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:42 pm

nymets1 wrote:Most of the Orlando Magic fans want us to select Isaac at our 6th pick if he's available. We are nervous now that Isaac doesn't want to workout with any teams below the 4th pick that it could mean Isaac has a promise from the Suns at the 4th pick. Could me and other magic fans have confidence since you guys just drafted Bender and Chriss that it wouldn't make sense for the Suns to pick Isaac? We would like Isaac available at our 6th pick if we could get assured?


Our FO seems very interested in him and a lot around here think he can work with Chriss and Bender, either as additional depth or all together with one of the three ultimately bulking up and playing center and another being more of a sf. So we can't offer any assurance on that front.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#971 » by nymets1 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:48 pm

If Suns draft Isaac, We either taking Tatum or DSJ as these 2 would probably be available at 6th. The top 5 could be in no particular order

1.Fultz
2.Ball
3.Fox
4.Isaac
5.Josh Jackson

Could the Suns be interested in a trade or they just keeping who they draft? If you guys draft Isaac, maybe we try to trade with you and ask for Isaac.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#972 » by Walt_Uoob » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:53 pm

nymets1 wrote:If Suns draft Isaac, We either taking Tatum or DSJ as these 2 would probably be available at 6th. The top 5 could be in no particular order

1.Fultz
2.Ball
3.Fox
4.Isaac
5.Josh Jackson

Could the Suns be interested in a trade or they just keeping who they draft? If you guys draft Isaac, maybe we try to trade with you and ask for Isaac.


Seems possible. Our FO seems to like Tatum too and Orlando has frequently been mentioned as a trade partner on this board, though there's a lot of disagreement over how valuable your guys are and how well they'd fit here.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#973 » by nymets1 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:02 pm

Walt_Uoob wrote:
nymets1 wrote:If Suns draft Isaac, We either taking Tatum or DSJ as these 2 would probably be available at 6th. The top 5 could be in no particular order

1.Fultz
2.Ball
3.Fox
4.Isaac
5.Josh Jackson

Could the Suns be interested in a trade or they just keeping who they draft? If you guys draft Isaac, maybe we try to trade with you and ask for Isaac.


Seems possible. Our FO seems to like Tatum too and Orlando has frequently been mentioned as a trade partner on this board, though there's a lot of disagreement over how valuable your guys are and how well they'd fit here.


Oh wow, We are totally unaware that this board has mentioned us a trade partner. On our board we have a topic of trading with Sixers for their 3rd pick for our 6th pick. It was a 76ers fan saying that the Magic should trade with Philly's 3rd pick and jump the Suns and Kings because the Suns and Kings are looking for a wing. I have no idea where we stand with 76ers and Suns in terms of trying to trade up for the 3rd or 4th overall pick, but we would love to get the 3rd or 4th overall pick than we can really get the guy we want as opposed to staying put in 6th not knowing for sure how the top 5 is going to go.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#974 » by Walt_Uoob » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:02 pm

That rumor about LA trading DLo for #3 and taking both Ball and Jackson makes so much sense. All it really takes is Philly not wanting to draft another forward and preferring Russell over Fox and Monk.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#975 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:03 pm

Needless to say, Isaac's ceiling has NBA scouts drooling. One scout told me Isaac is the one player in this draft he sees as being in the rarefied air of "freak NBA athletes," a term the scout reserves for players like LeBron James and Paul George and just a handful of others. So is this label a blessing? Or is it a curse, the idea that in the future this player could outperform his past?

The answer depends, I believe, on the individual. An arrogant young man who hears this talk about himself can get lazy. He can see himself as The Anointed One and not put in the work. This is the type of player for whom the "high ceiling" label will become a curse.

Luckily, this is not the case with Jonathan Isaac. And because of not only his basketball attributes but also his grounded and humble personality, I earnestly believe that five years from now we could look back at the 2017 NBA Draft and say, "How the hell did a player like Jonathan Isaac last all the way until the seventh pick?!?"

"There's no question about it," Isaac's college coach, Leonard Hamilton, told me the other day, agreeing with me on both Isaac having the highest ceiling in this draft and the constitution to live up to the label. "Jonathan is an extremely humble person, but he's also a very hard worker, extremely focused. Of all the players I've coached, he comes in as a youngster with an extremely high basketball IQ, one of the highest basketball IQs I've seen. He sees the game through a mature set of eyes, almost coach-like. He values all the little things that are important about the game."

That's exactly the type of mentality that turns a high-ceiling player into an NBA All-Star. A nationally respected evaluator of high school basketball talent -- someone who has watched Isaac develop for years -- told me what jumps out to him most about Isaac's game is how unselfish he is (he also referred to Isaac as a "mini Kevin Durant," if that gives you any sense of Isaac's ceiling). He's not the type of player who is so concerned about filling up the box score. He knows that he'll get his. Instead, he's out there to make his team better, not just make himself look good.

In an NBA that spreads the floor like it does, Isaac is the type of player who fits the modern league like a glove. He's a near 7-footer who can put the ball on the floor and knock down 3s, which he did at a 35 percent clip in college at an average of nearly three attempts per game. He rebounds in traffic, he makes free throws, he doesn't pass up open looks, he makes the pass that leads to the pass that gets the assist. He was the most effective shot-blocker and rebounder for one of the tallest teams in college basketball. But what Hamilton believes will make him most valuable in the NBA isn't necessarily just his effectiveness close to the rim. It's that he's as comfortable under the rim as he is out on the perimeter -- on offense, and on defense. There's not a big man in this draft who'll be as effective switching on pick-and-rolls as Isaac is.

"He has the versatility to be whatever a coach wants him to be," Hamilton told me. "He's so rare in terms of having such a talented guy who just really, really gets it. He's a confident person.
He'll respect authority and respect the culture of the team, but he'll speak up when there's something that needs to be talked about. He's not a 'yes' man. He respects right from wrong. He's the kind of young man parents want their kids to grow up to be."

Look, I am well aware that NBA teams won't be making their selections on draft night based on whether a player seems like a nice young man or a guy with a nose for trouble. The fact that Hamilton raves about how enthusiastic of a cheerleader Isaac was for his teammates when he was on the bench won't register with NBA teams. But you better believe that in a draft that's chock-full of players with all the measurable basketball attributes you'd ever want, it'll be those personal intangibles that can turn a player from "high ceiling" into "franchise cornerstone."

When you take the whole package with Jonathan Isaac -- the phenomenal physical profile, the off-the-charts basketball IQ, the humility, the focus -- he strikes me as the rarest of high-ceiling players. He's the high-ceiling prospect who could also be the safest of bets.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-mini-kevin-durant-jonathan-isaac-has-the-nba-drafts-highest-ceiling/
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#976 » by Waylay13 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:04 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:I'm confused why everyone wants Isaac. I don't know a lick of college ball so please help me understand. The Suns drafted Chriss and Bender last season.

Tatum is the most obvious pick.


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Isaac is probably the best defensive player in the draft. Booker needs defensive help. Isaac also spreads the floor.

I get it.


I personally would put Jackson and Bell over Issac in defensive ability and as far as Booker needing help too many people are saying that Issac is doesnt have the ball handling skills and outside shoot to be a small forward. I am higher on Tatum for the reason that he is a small forward then Issac and a proven scorer but I wonder about his ability to match up with most small forward defensively.
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#977 » by Frank Lee » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:04 pm

If the fLakers are offering up DRussell for a top pick... mark me down. I'll go with a DRuss / Booker back court then make a strong play for an eventual FA KAT for the next really big three.

A few more days and the speculation will subside. Hard to imagine McD just sitting tight and not trying to maneuver his 'assets' around, regardless of who he picks
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Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#978 » by itlnsunsfan » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:12 pm

Frank Lee wrote:If the fLakers are offering up DRussell for a top pick... mark me down. I'll go with a DRuss / Booker back court then make a strong play for an eventual FA KAT for the next really big three.

A few more days and the speculation will subside. Hard to imagine McD just sitting tight and not trying to maneuver his 'assets' around, regardless of who he picks


Yuck. DLo does not interest me at all. He's a bonehead. I surely wouldn't trade the #4 pick for him. I wouldn't even trade a late lottery pick for him.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#979 » by carey » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:23 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
carey wrote:
Sreister wrote:Man, I do like Isaac a lot. I'm just nervous he'll be taking away from our huge investment in PF/C from last years draft. That's 3 guys that will roughly play the same position. But, I still think Isaac is the way to go, regardless.


It doesn't matter. Anyone but Collins necessitates a move has to be made to clear up a logjam. My problem with Isaac is that everything about him seems to be an unknown. We're banking on his measurables and the idea that his defense can translate. I said several months ago the thought of Isaac and Bender switching together on the perimeter to the interior seamlessly would be very interesting. That said there's little to no chance Watson would play them together. Also if you select Isaac you have to play Bender at C or you have to trade him.

I do think Isaac has the biggest bust potential of the top 10. This would be a swing for the fences type pick that you desperately hope pans out 3 years from now.


You don't have to trade anyone. These guys are all young and raw and chances are, all of our prospects might not pan out. You don't trade one until you know which ones will. If they all do, great. Depth isn't bad. You need 8-10 guys in the rotation. There are always injuries.

This "we have to move someone if we draft player X" is kind of a ridiculous notion for a team that won 24 games.

I should have said we would need to trade someone only if we want them to get meaningful playing time. Silly me. We can give them the Bender treatment. That worked well last year.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 Draft Discussion Part 3 [New Poll] 

Post#980 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:24 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Needless to say, Isaac's ceiling has NBA scouts drooling. One scout told me Isaac is the one player in this draft he sees as being in the rarefied air of "freak NBA athletes," a term the scout reserves for players like LeBron James and Paul George and just a handful of others. So is this label a blessing? Or is it a curse, the idea that in the future this player could outperform his past?

The answer depends, I believe, on the individual. An arrogant young man who hears this talk about himself can get lazy. He can see himself as The Anointed One and not put in the work. This is the type of player for whom the "high ceiling" label will become a curse.

Luckily, this is not the case with Jonathan Isaac. And because of not only his basketball attributes but also his grounded and humble personality, I earnestly believe that five years from now we could look back at the 2017 NBA Draft and say, "How the hell did a player like Jonathan Isaac last all the way until the seventh pick?!?"

"There's no question about it," Isaac's college coach, Leonard Hamilton, told me the other day, agreeing with me on both Isaac having the highest ceiling in this draft and the constitution to live up to the label. "Jonathan is an extremely humble person, but he's also a very hard worker, extremely focused. Of all the players I've coached, he comes in as a youngster with an extremely high basketball IQ, one of the highest basketball IQs I've seen. He sees the game through a mature set of eyes, almost coach-like. He values all the little things that are important about the game."

That's exactly the type of mentality that turns a high-ceiling player into an NBA All-Star. A nationally respected evaluator of high school basketball talent -- someone who has watched Isaac develop for years -- told me what jumps out to him most about Isaac's game is how unselfish he is (he also referred to Isaac as a "mini Kevin Durant," if that gives you any sense of Isaac's ceiling). He's not the type of player who is so concerned about filling up the box score. He knows that he'll get his. Instead, he's out there to make his team better, not just make himself look good.

In an NBA that spreads the floor like it does, Isaac is the type of player who fits the modern league like a glove. He's a near 7-footer who can put the ball on the floor and knock down 3s, which he did at a 35 percent clip in college at an average of nearly three attempts per game. He rebounds in traffic, he makes free throws, he doesn't pass up open looks, he makes the pass that leads to the pass that gets the assist. He was the most effective shot-blocker and rebounder for one of the tallest teams in college basketball. But what Hamilton believes will make him most valuable in the NBA isn't necessarily just his effectiveness close to the rim. It's that he's as comfortable under the rim as he is out on the perimeter -- on offense, and on defense. There's not a big man in this draft who'll be as effective switching on pick-and-rolls as Isaac is.

"He has the versatility to be whatever a coach wants him to be," Hamilton told me. "He's so rare in terms of having such a talented guy who just really, really gets it. He's a confident person.
He'll respect authority and respect the culture of the team, but he'll speak up when there's something that needs to be talked about. He's not a 'yes' man. He respects right from wrong. He's the kind of young man parents want their kids to grow up to be."

Look, I am well aware that NBA teams won't be making their selections on draft night based on whether a player seems like a nice young man or a guy with a nose for trouble. The fact that Hamilton raves about how enthusiastic of a cheerleader Isaac was for his teammates when he was on the bench won't register with NBA teams. But you better believe that in a draft that's chock-full of players with all the measurable basketball attributes you'd ever want, it'll be those personal intangibles that can turn a player from "high ceiling" into "franchise cornerstone."

When you take the whole package with Jonathan Isaac -- the phenomenal physical profile, the off-the-charts basketball IQ, the humility, the focus -- he strikes me as the rarest of high-ceiling players. He's the high-ceiling prospect who could also be the safest of bets.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-mini-kevin-durant-jonathan-isaac-has-the-nba-drafts-highest-ceiling/

Clapping on the bench.... well we know who earl "were tracking high fives" Watson wants the suns to select :)

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