Holiday Leaving?!- Mavs Become Frontrunners To Sign BOTH Holidays!

[Sark]

Meh. He's a backup on a 31 win team. Won't lose one bit of sleep over him leaving. If someone wants to overpay him, then let him go get his money. We certainly aren't in a position to overpay for him.

[Greenie]

He’s a plus contributor on both ends of the floor. One of the more efficient scorers on the team last year, could get out in transition and was actually part of the few net positive lineups we had last year. He’s the definition of a role player that you want on your team as you build a foundation.

And he’s 27, not 32 so he’ll productive throughout that contract. We have to forget about star FAs and build within, acquiring assets along the way. That cap space can also be used to take on bad contracts with picks attached to them. Continuity matters and he’s a guy you want to bring back.

Yeah I don't consider him an efficient scorer and with him being 27 there's really not that much more upside we're going to see from him. I dont think he's a scrub, he seeems like a good guy, I just not desperate to bring him back. Continuity matters once there's success to build on. Being that we haven't had success with the players on our team it only makes sense that we make moves. I guess it boils down to the fact that you and I disagree as to how good holiday is. I don't think it's imperative to sign that I think has very little impact on the fortunes of a team. You probably think he's more of an impact player.

Just take a look at available free agents at SG/SF:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/shooting-guard/

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/small-forward/

The pickings are slim. I don't think rolling the dice with someone else over him makes sense.

He essentially scored at league average efficiency on a team that had few playmakers looking to get others open looks. Some lineup data:

Holiday / KOQ / KP, 241 min, +7.9 points per 100 possessions

Holiday / Jennings / KP, 386 min, +6.3 per 100

Holiday / Willy / Jennings, 301 min, +4.5 per 100

etc. etc. these net positive lineups with significant minutes are few and far between. This also extends to 4 man lineups which were all over 100 minutes. Holiday is a constant in them as i’ve said. That’s visible impact.

You still have Baker and Lee and the draft and sleepers.

[Jeff Van Gully]

lol dirk should just retire and stop forcing cuban to do win now moves

they need a good ole proper tear down

dirk is a basketball player, not an executive.

and what win-now moves you talking about? both holidays are young. harrison barnes is young. wes matthews is the next significant contract, from two years ago. and he's in his prime now.

[Clyde Frazier]

Meh. He's a backup on a 31 win team. Won't lose one bit of sleep over him leaving. If someone wants to overpay him, then let him go get his money. We certainly aren't in a position to overpay for him.

This seems like a default answer because we sucked as a team. There's more to player evaluation than that.

[Greenie]

Yeah, I was counting on him being a core piece. This sucks.

A core piece, on a rebuilding team, at age 28?

You can't have a team entirely of players with little to no NBA experience. There's a reason lee was actually a reasonable signing for us. Think of holiday as a younger version of that who will still be in his prime 3 seasons from now.

No thanks. I rather let Ron Baker start at SG and Kuz start at SF before I hand out long term contracts to bench players.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Meh. He's a backup on a 31 win team. Won't lose one bit of sleep over him leaving. If someone wants to overpay him, then let him go get his money. We certainly aren't in a position to overpay for him.

This seems like a default answer because we sucked as a team. There's more to player evaluation than that.

the other side of it is... justin holiday does exactly what he did on the knicks for another team with more minutes and we talk about how stupid this franchise is for not locking him up.

[Clyde Frazier]

Yeah I don't consider him an efficient scorer and with him being 27 there's really not that much more upside we're going to see from him. I dont think he's a scrub, he seeems like a good guy, I just not desperate to bring him back. Continuity matters once there's success to build on. Being that we haven't had success with the players on our team it only makes sense that we make moves. I guess it boils down to the fact that you and I disagree as to how good holiday is. I don't think it's imperative to sign that I think has very little impact on the fortunes of a team. You probably think he's more of an impact player.

Just take a look at available free agents at SG/SF:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/shooting-guard/

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/small-forward/

The pickings are slim. I don't think rolling the dice with someone else over him makes sense.

He essentially scored at league average efficiency on a team that had few playmakers looking to get others open looks. Some lineup data:

Holiday / KOQ / KP, 241 min, +7.9 points per 100 possessions

Holiday / Jennings / KP, 386 min, +6.3 per 100

Holiday / Willy / Jennings, 301 min, +4.5 per 100

etc. etc. these net positive lineups with significant minutes are few and far between. This also extends to 4 man lineups which were all over 100 minutes. Holiday is a constant in them as i’ve said. That’s visible impact.

You still have Baker and Lee and the draft and sleepers.

Phil lacks the capacity to understand that having a deep guard rotation is important in today's game. Bringing a productive guard back is important because he isn't going to bring a ton of other guards in. It's been consistent every season he's been here.

[Sark]

Meh. He's a backup on a 31 win team. Won't lose one bit of sleep over him leaving. If someone wants to overpay him, then let him go get his money. We certainly aren't in a position to overpay for him.

This seems like a default answer because we sucked as a team. There's more to player evaluation than that.

Overpaying for players like Holiday is how you end up in the Blazers situation where you have tons of role players making exorbitant amounts of money, and then having to move draft picks to shed salary.

Basically the Knicks history for the past 2 decades.

He's worth keeping at the right very low price. If I were him I would be looking to get paid.

[Clyde Frazier]

Meh. He's a backup on a 31 win team. Won't lose one bit of sleep over him leaving. If someone wants to overpay him, then let him go get his money. We certainly aren't in a position to overpay for him.

This seems like a default answer because we sucked as a team. There's more to player evaluation than that.

Overpaying for players like Holiday is how you end up in the Blazers situation where you have tons of role players making exorbitant amounts of money, and then having to move draft picks to shed salary.

Basically the Knicks history for the past 2 decades.

He's worth keeping at the right very low price. If I were him I would be looking to get paid.

To be clear, not looking to give him a blazers size contract. $8-10 mil is reasonable to me.

[Greenie]

Meh. He's a backup on a 31 win team. Won't lose one bit of sleep over him leaving. If someone wants to overpay him, then let him go get his money. We certainly aren't in a position to overpay for him.

This seems like a default answer because we sucked as a team. There's more to player evaluation than that.

the other side of it is... justin holiday does exactly what he did on the knicks for another team with more minutes and we talk about how stupid this franchise is for not locking him up.

Not if we commit to full rebuild. Holiday isn't a bum, but he's not a forward moving piece. I'm down to sign and trade him for a little something back for him. That's about it. I rather bring back Baker and draft Josh Hart.

[Greenie]

Meh. He's a backup on a 31 win team. Won't lose one bit of sleep over him leaving. If someone wants to overpay him, then let him go get his money. We certainly aren't in a position to overpay for him.

This seems like a default answer because we sucked as a team. There's more to player evaluation than that.

Overpaying for players like Holiday is how you end up in the Blazers situation where you have tons of role players making exorbitant amounts of money, and then having to move draft picks to shed salary.

Basically the Knicks history for the past 2 decades.

He's worth keeping at the right very low price. If I were him I would be looking to get paid.

Oh ****.
We agree.

[Sark]

This seems like a default answer because we sucked as a team. There's more to player evaluation than that.

Overpaying for players like Holiday is how you end up in the Blazers situation where you have tons of role players making exorbitant amounts of money, and then having to move draft picks to shed salary.

Basically the Knicks history for the past 2 decades.

He's worth keeping at the right very low price. If I were him I would be looking to get paid.

To be clear, not looking to give him a blazers size contract. $8-10 mil is reasonable to me.

That would make him the 4th highest paid player, if we don't resign Rose. It wouldn't be a crippling contract, but it certainly could be something you regret eventually. I just don't think the Knicks are in a position to pay back ups $10m.

If I were him I would go get my money. If I were the Knicks, I would let him leave at that price.

[Jeff Van Gully]

This seems like a default answer because we sucked as a team. There's more to player evaluation than that.

the other side of it is... justin holiday does exactly what he did on the knicks for another team with more minutes and we talk about how stupid this franchise is for not locking him up.

Not if we commit to full rebuild. Holiday isn't a bum, but he's not a forward moving piece. I'm down to sign and trade him for a little something back for him. That's about it. I rather bring back Baker and draft Josh Hart.

i'm not arguing for signing him. but, i mean... we should sign some people. are we going to let every young player walk at contract time?

depending on who we get in the draft, we might need him.

say we don't get an SG, which is highly likely, and maybe we move lee in a deal for another pick... maybe holiday is not the worst stopgap. he was here already. he is young. he is a pro's pro.

might all be moot if the brothers are keen on playing together. though, i'm also sure they'll be fine both maximizing paydays.

[Greenie]

Just take a look at available free agents at SG/SF:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/shooting-guard/

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/small-forward/

The pickings are slim. I don't think rolling the dice with someone else over him makes sense.

He essentially scored at league average efficiency on a team that had few playmakers looking to get others open looks. Some lineup data:

Holiday / KOQ / KP, 241 min, +7.9 points per 100 possessions

Holiday / Jennings / KP, 386 min, +6.3 per 100

Holiday / Willy / Jennings, 301 min, +4.5 per 100

etc. etc. these net positive lineups with significant minutes are few and far between. This also extends to 4 man lineups which were all over 100 minutes. Holiday is a constant in them as i’ve said. That’s visible impact.

You still have Baker and Lee and the draft and sleepers.

Phil lacks the capacity to understand that having a deep guard rotation is important in today's game. Bringing a productive guard back is important because he isn't going to bring a ton of other guards in. It's been consistent every season he's been here.

Well Phil needs to get his **** together.

[Sark]

This seems like a default answer because we sucked as a team. There's more to player evaluation than that.

Overpaying for players like Holiday is how you end up in the Blazers situation where you have tons of role players making exorbitant amounts of money, and then having to move draft picks to shed salary.

Basically the Knicks history for the past 2 decades.

He's worth keeping at the right very low price. If I were him I would be looking to get paid.

Oh ****.
We agree.

[Greenie]

the other side of it is... justin holiday does exactly what he did on the knicks for another team with more minutes and we talk about how stupid this franchise is for not locking him up.

Not if we commit to full rebuild. Holiday isn't a bum, but he's not a forward moving piece. I'm down to sign and trade him for a little something back for him. That's about it. I rather bring back Baker and draft Josh Hart.

i'm not arguing for signing him. but, i mean... we should sign some people. are we going to let every young player walk at contract time?

depending on who we get in the draft, we might need him.

say we don't get an SG, which is highly likely, and maybe we move lee in a deal for another pick... maybe holiday is not the worst stopgap. he was here already. he is young. he is a pro's pro.

might all be moot if the brothers are keen on playing together. though, i'm also sure they'll be fine both maximizing paydays.

28 isn't young
Let Ron start.

[dakomish23]

the other side of it is... justin holiday does exactly what he did on the knicks for another team with more minutes and we talk about how stupid this franchise is for not locking him up.

Not if we commit to full rebuild. Holiday isn't a bum, but he's not a forward moving piece. I'm down to sign and trade him for a little something back for him. That's about it. I rather bring back Baker and draft Josh Hart.

i'm not arguing for signing him. but, i mean... we should sign some people. are we going to let every young player walk at contract time?

depending on who we get in the draft, we might need him.

say we don't get an SG, which is highly likely, and maybe we move lee in a deal for another pick... maybe holiday is not the worst stopgap. he was here already. he is young. he is a pro's pro.

might all be moot if the brothers are keen on playing together. though, i'm also sure they'll be fine both maximizing paydays.

He's 28 so not exactly a spring chicken.

[Jeff Van Gully]

i would think under 30 is young. he's not a spring chicken, but you don't want all spring chicken roster, do you? he's a young vet. that's a good kind of player to have.

[dakomish23]

i would think under 30 is young. he's not a spring chicken, but you don't want all spring chicken roster, do you? he's a young vet. that's a good kind of player to have.

I'll fine with bringing him back at the Early Bird rate since I'm a 100% certain this dumb franchise will waste their cap space on mediocre vets.

But I would gladly take an all spring chicken roster with some vets signed to extremely small deals instead of the garbage overpaid veteran rosters PJax has produced 3 years in a row.

[King of Canada]

GTFO Justin with your pick position killing ass!