NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread

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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#861 » by UTJazzFan_Echo1 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:38 am

Catchall wrote:** A strong 2-way wing that can potentially replace Rodney Hood if the Jazz decide not to extend or match on his deal. Donovan Mitchell has the Jazz's attention. I think the Jazz would also draft OG if they could. Both players are probably out of range. Not sure if the Jazz like Justin Jackson or Terrance Ferguson.

Fwiw, the latest DraftExpress mock draft has OG going at 22, so his not entirely out of the realm of possibility for the Jazz. If they wanted him that badly, and he falls that far down the board, I don't think it'd take much to trade up a few spots to get him.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#862 » by stitches » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:09 am

Walt Perrin said after the latest workout that the draft is severely lacking in wings and he also said there are good bigs in the range. He said "you cannot go into the draft thinking I need a wing. It's somewhat dictated by the draft[what we will be looking for]." When asked if he likes what's there that's projected to be at 24 or 30 he pretty quickly said Yes (said "its pretty deep draft, we can find pretty good players both at 24 and 30, we might even find a good player at 42)
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#863 » by stitches » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:40 am

What does a team that plays slow and in the halfcourt need most offensively? Efficient half-court players. Lauri Markkanen lead the entire NCAA in half-court scoring efficiency with 1.25 ppp. Food for thought.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#864 » by stitches » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:51 am

Interesting article about how NBA teams have performed in the draft in the last 40 years:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/nba-draft-data-76ers-bryan-colangelo-win-shares-20170614.html

We are 41% above expected value from the draft and we rank third in the league.

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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#865 » by UTJazzFan_Echo1 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:15 pm

stitches wrote:Interesting article about how NBA teams have performed in the draft in the last 40 years:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/nba-draft-data-76ers-bryan-colangelo-win-shares-20170614.html

We are 41% above expected value from the draft and we rank third in the league.

If we would've picked Giannis instead of Trey Burke, we would've been.... like, %300+
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#866 » by KqWIN » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:33 pm

Expanding my list of guys I like at 24 and/or 30 to

Pasecniks
Lessort
Bolden
Jackson
Giles
Adebayo
Bell
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#867 » by stitches » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:35 pm

What am I missing with Bam, guys? I don't get how low so many draftniks are on him. I truly don't get it? I don't get how they have 7-8-10-15 bigs ahead of him? WTF?
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#868 » by KqWIN » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:50 pm

stitches wrote:What am I missing with Bam, guys? I don't get how low so many draftniks are on him. I truly don't get it? I don't get how they have 7-8-10-15 bigs ahead of him? WTF?


The only thing that bothers me is that he's trying to be a stretch big...but I don't really get that one either. Bad defender/low motor are reasonable concerns as well.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#869 » by stitches » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:53 pm

KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:What am I missing with Bam, guys? I don't get how low so many draftniks are on him. I truly don't get it? I don't get how they have 7-8-10-15 bigs ahead of him? WTF?


The only thing that bothers me is that he's trying to be a stretch big...but I don't really get that one either. Bad defender/low motor are reasonable concerns as well.

But he moves well on the perimeter. He shut down Lonzo 1-on-1 multiple times in their meetings. And his rim protection is not elite, but I think he can be good at it. I think he has better offensive skill than most of the bigs in his range.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#870 » by KqWIN » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:42 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:What am I missing with Bam, guys? I don't get how low so many draftniks are on him. I truly don't get it? I don't get how they have 7-8-10-15 bigs ahead of him? WTF?


The only thing that bothers me is that he's trying to be a stretch big...but I don't really get that one either. Bad defender/low motor are reasonable concerns as well.

But he moves well on the perimeter. He shut down Lonzo 1-on-1 multiple times in their meetings. And his rim protection is not elite, but I think he can be good at it. I think he has better offensive skill than most of the bigs in his range.


That's true, although Lonzo has trouble getting past a lot of guys 1v1. If you were to take the pessimist approach to Bam I think you'd certainly question his awareness/effort on the defensive end. It wouldn't surprise me if he was another JJ Hickson. Puts up numbers, but might not help you win.

With that said, I'd probably rank him 10-14 before putting too much thought into it.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#871 » by UTJazzFan_Echo1 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:29 am

stitches wrote:What am I missing with Bam, guys? I don't get how low so many draftniks are on him. I truly don't get it? I don't get how they have 7-8-10-15 bigs ahead of him? WTF?

He's solid. I think a lot of people are getting caught up on what he can't do, rather than what he can do. The biggest hang up for people/teams is his shooting. EVERYONE wants shooters at every position right now, so a guys like Bam, Hartenstein, Lessort & Rabb are being underrated.

I think the same thing is happening with guys like Swanigan and Jawun Evans. They're a lot better than people realize, but because people are getting fixated on one weakness of theirs (Swanigan can't defend and Evans is undersized) they're starting to slip on peoples boards.

Meanwhile, guys like Kennard, who have zero business being in the discussion for a lottery pick, are being projected to go as high as 11. All because he can shoot. It's probably why Lydon and Kuzma will be 1st round picks when it's all said and done.

I honestly believe that people are just too caught up in the "everyone has to be able to shoot at a high level" craze that they're going to miss out on some talented guys that will have long, productive careers in the league.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#872 » by Catchall » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:32 am

stitches wrote:What am I missing with Bam, guys? I don't get how low so many draftniks are on him. I truly don't get it? I don't get how they have 7-8-10-15 bigs ahead of him? WTF?


It's just a question of where the league is headed. There's no question to me that Bam can do what Derrick Favors gave us last year, or that he can be a more explosive Taj Gibson. Honestly, he should be better than both those guys. He can finish pick and rolls, guard out to 20+ feet on the floor, help-defend with quick reactions, make 17-foot jumpers, hit his free-throws, run the floor. He's an amazing athlete. Amazing. His hands are good. His feet are great. He has 9-ft standing reach and a 38.5" max vertical. His freshman year at UK is comparable to Blake Griffin's freshman year for crying out loud, his measurables are at least as good, and he's only 19. It's just that the league now is obsessed with bigs who shoot 3s, handle the ball and initiate the pick-and-roll.

I've also talked about this before on Jazzfanz, but I believe there exists a bias whereby people overreact and misjudge prospects based on their initial expectations for the player. Bam came into UK with very high expectations. He was pretty much their only low-post presence, rebounder and rim protector. He was put under a microscope. He put up 13/8 for the year and had some 20/14 games as well. He was great, but because the expectations were so high for him, some people think he underdelivered. That then becomes a bias where people are now down on him for some reason. But then you see a guy like Anigbogu who didn't have those expectations, and who produced very little as a back-up at UCLA. Everything Ike did was a pleasant surprise, and now people really like him as a prospect. I would take Bam over Ike Anigbogu every day of the week because Bam is basically the same size, was 8 or 10x as productive and is 3x as quick. Want someone to battle with Draymond Green in the paint and also switch onto Klay Thompson? Bam can do it.

The year prior, Skal Labissiere badly underperformed relative to high expectations. He slid all the way to #28. Even with his poor freshman year at UK, he was still a top-10 or so prospect in that draft. I mean -- Henry Ellenson? C'mon. By mid-season, Skal started looking really good. Now in a re-draft he'd go top 5.

People are evaluating prospects with inconsistent expectations. They're seeing what they want to see instead of seeing what's there.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#873 » by stitches » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:39 am

I think the conversation has swung way too much the other way when talking about the league's need for wings and shooting. I think a ton of them are going to get overdrafted based on it(Kennard and OG being the main culprits I'm thinking about). And they will turn out like Jimmer or Stauskas or McLemore or (OK, i'm gonna leave it at just Sacramento wing busts).
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#874 » by sipclip » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:51 am

I have been doing more research on DJ Wilson and I'm starting to really like him at 24. He was extremely inconsistent as a scorer and rebounder but his defense always seemed to be solid. I also think he can play minutes at the 3 spot.

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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#875 » by KqWIN » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:18 am

stitches wrote:I think the conversation has swung way too much the other way when talking about the league's need for wings and shooting. I think a ton of them are going to get overdrafted based on it(Kennard and OG being the main culprits I'm thinking about). And they will turn out like Jimmer or Stauskas or McLemore or (OK, i'm gonna leave it at just Sacramento wing busts).


Not saying he'll bust, but no one has risen more than Mitchell...Kennard maybe.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#876 » by babyjax13 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:31 am

I don't understand why Semih Ojeleye isn't much higher on draft boards. If Kennard is in discussion for the lottery, Ojeleye should be, too.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#877 » by UTJazzFan_Echo1 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:22 am

babyjax13 wrote:I don't understand why Semih Ojeleye isn't much higher on draft boards. If Kennard is in discussion for the lottery, Ojeleye should be, too.

I agree with this, although I will say that Ojeleye has some legitimate concerns about his game. He can be a ball stopper at times, doesn't create well off the dribble, and posted really weak steal and block averages. He's also too short to play the 4, which is his most natural position.

That being said, I would pick him before Kennard. I'm not a fan of Kennard at all.

stitches wrote:I think the conversation has swung way too much the other way when talking about the league's need for wings and shooting. I think a ton of them are going to get overdrafted based on it(Kennard and OG being the main culprits I'm thinking about). And they will turn out like Jimmer or Stauskas or McLemore or (OK, i'm gonna leave it at just Sacramento wing busts).

And I'm with you on this Stitches. I really don't see it with OG outside of his physical tools and athleticism.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#878 » by stitches » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:54 am

babyjax13 wrote:I don't understand why Semih Ojeleye isn't much higher on draft boards. If Kennard is in discussion for the lottery, Ojeleye should be, too.

Ojeleye is another one I'm not high on.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#879 » by UTJazzFan_Echo1 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:15 pm

On Lockes podcast today, he said that he called around the league, and said that the Jazz top priorities are to...
1: Secure our point guard position
2: Trade up to get someone they really like

He talked about the Jazz desire to draft Kristaps when he came out, and said that the Jazz have identified other guys that they really like in the same kind of way and will explore options to trade up for them.

He also said that DJ Wilson has a promise from someone, but it's not the Jazz.
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Re: NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#880 » by pickIBL » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:28 pm

Idk if it's all smoke, but a month after my big board it seems like my guy could go number one.. which seemed unrealistic at the time.
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