2017 Lakers Draft Pick Discussion

[Leor_77]

Regarding Ball, my concern with him doing a private workout in his location, with his trainer, etc., is that the point isn't for you to be comfortable. The whole point is that the Lakers staff want to put their prospects through grueling, uncomfortable workouts/drills, so they can separate the men from the boys.

[NBAWestFan]

I don't even want LA to trade Russell for the # 3 at all. I'm very intrigued to see how Ball and D'Lo together on the court first. I can also see Russell will have a good year next season. 7 days to go.

The Ceiling for Russell is limited. He is not a Curry. He is not even a JJ Redick.

He is more of a poor man's Jamal Crawford with a lot slower step.

He is not a "Gamer" who you put in during the NBA Finals when it is crunch time.

Maybe he gets some playing time in a finals but because he lacks the defense, quickness,
althleticism and aggressiveness to be a Gamer.

However JJ i see he is a Gamer on the Defensive side and shows potential on the offense. He is still young
and long arms can develop well. He is quick so who does Lonzo pass it too a quick running the break or a spot up
shooter.

I think Ingram is the project still and has potential but JJ has greater defensive potential
and can be a great transistion player.

[Pythagoras]

No. D'lo will never be a good defender. There are plenty of players that came out of college with 0 jumper and developed a very good one.

This feels like you just hand waving away a very serious flaw of JJ's. Who are these players that became "very good" shooters? Way more often than not, if a guy can't shoot in college, the best you can hope for is them becoming a passable shooter in the NBA.

And defensively, you can scheme around a guard who isn't a good defender (see Steph).

Ever heard of Kawhi Leonard? Pau Gasol? Marc Gasol, who made more 3s this year than he had ATTEMPTED his entire career? These guys are off the top of my head. Kawhi shot 44% from 3 last year, 20% his freshman year. You can teach elite shooting, you can't teach what Ball needs to be a high-level defender.

Kawhi, Marc, and Pau were all 70%+ FT shooters at around the same age as JJ, who is a below 60% FT shooter. So try again.

Not attempting a lot of 3s does not mean someone is a bad shooter.

[Pythagoras]

Also defense only gets you so many wins these days in the NBA. The finals were a clear representation of that with the ridiculous numbers that were being put up. Not to mention the refs made sure these teams couldn't play defense.

And guess what it will only get worse. The rules will progress in favoring the offensive players. Why? Because you want to protect your stars and more points always equals higher ratings with the casual fans.

The Warriors played consistently great defense all series long. The Cavs didn't. It's half the game, this argument is beyond flawed.

The Warriors didn't beat the Cavs with great defense, are you kidding me? They gave up a DRTG of over 114 in that series. They won because they kept putting the rock in the bucket.

[Kilroy]

I don't even want LA to trade Russell for the # 3 at all. I'm very intrigued to see how Ball and D'Lo together on the court first. I can also see Russell will have a good year next season. 7 days to go.

Well in a vacuum, I wouldn't either... The only reasons I can think of that the FO would want to make that trade would have to do with fit or health... If they got the impression from Russell that he wasn't going to be happy to give up the ball to Ball when he came in, then you might be inclined to make that trade. Or if you think the fact that Russell has missed significant time with his knees in his first 2 seasons is more of an issue than it seems, you might make the trade too...

So I don't think it's as simple as they think Jackson's better than Russell.

[Pythagoras]

This feels like you just hand waving away a very serious flaw of JJ's. Who are these players that became "very good" shooters? Way more often than not, if a guy can't shoot in college, the best you can hope for is them becoming a passable shooter in the NBA.

And defensively, you can scheme around a guard who isn't a good defender (see Steph).

Free throw shooting in college is a good indicator of shooting in the NBA and Jackson's FT% is comparable to some of the worst FT shooting NBA big men than any guards or forwards.

Obviously it is correlated. But there are dozens of examples of players that have learned to shoot in the NBA that couldn't in college. Where are the examples of garbage college perimeter defenders that became great defenders in the NBA? I can't even think of 1.

Russell Westbrook shot WORSE from the line his freshman year than Jackson. He shot 34% on extremely high volume this year from 3, and probably took more bad 3s than anybody outside of Steph. Demarcus Cousins shot 60% his freshman year. 36% from 3 last year. 78% from the line. Shooting is obviously much easier to improve.

Westbrook is an extremely erratic shooter. He does enough other things great that you're willing to forgive that, but he's a career 31% 3 point shooter. That's crap. He doesn't help your case at all.

Cousins is the first legitimate player you named, and I'm 100% positive if I was so inclined I could find at least one guy who was a poor defender in college that improved in the NBA.

[ozymandias818]

This feels like you just hand waving away a very serious flaw of JJ's. Who are these players that became "very good" shooters? Way more often than not, if a guy can't shoot in college, the best you can hope for is them becoming a passable shooter in the NBA.

And defensively, you can scheme around a guard who isn't a good defender (see Steph).

Ever heard of Kawhi Leonard? Pau Gasol? Marc Gasol, who made more 3s this year than he had ATTEMPTED his entire career? These guys are off the top of my head. Kawhi shot 44% from 3 last year, 20% his freshman year. You can teach elite shooting, you can't teach what Ball needs to be a high-level defender.

Kawhi, Marc, and Pau were all 70%+ FT shooters at around the same age as JJ, who is a below 60% FT shooter. So try again.

Not attempting a lot of 3s does not mean someone is a bad shooter.

Glad to see you adopted somebody else's much better argument.

[TyCobb]

Regarding Ball, my concern with him doing a private workout in his location, with his trainer, etc., is that the point isn't for you to be comfortable. The whole point is that the Lakers staff want to put their prospects through grueling, uncomfortable workouts/drills, so they can separate the men from the boys.

The Lakers have already worked Lonzo out at their place. Doing the 2nd workout at Lonzo's place probably has more to do with Backstage Lakers getting more footage of Ball's draft journey in a new environment.

[ozymandias818]

Also defense only gets you so many wins these days in the NBA. The finals were a clear representation of that with the ridiculous numbers that were being put up. Not to mention the refs made sure these teams couldn't play defense.

And guess what it will only get worse. The rules will progress in favoring the offensive players. Why? Because you want to protect your stars and more points always equals higher ratings with the casual fans.

The Warriors played consistently great defense all series long. The Cavs didn't. It's half the game, this argument is beyond flawed.

The Warriors didn't beat the Cavs with great defense, are you kidding me? They gave up a DRTG of over 114 in that series. They won because they kept putting the rock in the bucket.

You sound like somebody that didn't watch a single game. Cleveland made ridiculous, difficult shots all series long. But they made all of those shots difficult. Cleveland had stretches of every game where they let Golden State get into layup lines against them. It's why they lost Game 5. It's why they lost Game 3. I cannot think of a more foolish argument than concluding that defense is less valuable than offense. Golden State had one of the best defenses the league has ever seen. Cleveland didn't. Defense is half the game. Defense is /half the game/. Do the math or change your username.

[jay51024]

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[Levity]

lol

gonna go into hibernation. wake me in a week.

[jay51024]

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[Pythagoras]

Ever heard of Kawhi Leonard? Pau Gasol? Marc Gasol, who made more 3s this year than he had ATTEMPTED his entire career? These guys are off the top of my head. Kawhi shot 44% from 3 last year, 20% his freshman year. You can teach elite shooting, you can't teach what Ball needs to be a high-level defender.

Kawhi, Marc, and Pau were all 70%+ FT shooters at around the same age as JJ, who is a below 60% FT shooter. So try again.

Not attempting a lot of 3s does not mean someone is a bad shooter.

Glad to see you adopted somebody else's much better argument.

I didn't adopt anything. You apparently don't know the difference between a good shooter and a bad one.

[Pythagoras]

The Warriors played consistently great defense all series long. The Cavs didn't. It's half the game, this argument is beyond flawed.

The Warriors didn't beat the Cavs with great defense, are you kidding me? They gave up a DRTG of over 114 in that series. They won because they kept putting the rock in the bucket.

You sound like somebody that didn't watch a single game. Cleveland made ridiculous, difficult shots all series long. But they made all of those shots difficult. Cleveland had stretches of every game where they let Golden State get into layup lines against them. It's why they lost Game 5. It's why they lost Game 3. I cannot think of a more foolish argument than concluding that defense is less valuable than offense. Golden State had one of the best defenses the league has ever seen. Cleveland didn't. Defense is half the game. Defense is /half the game/. Do the math or change your username.

Know how I know you don't know what you're talking about?

[ozymandias818]

I didn't adopt anything. You apparently don't know the difference between a good shooter and a bad one.

Know how I know you don't know what you're talking about?

When you've calmed down and decided to actually contribute something, you just let us know. I can continue to discuss this with Slava.

[Pythagoras]

I didn't adopt anything. You apparently don't know the difference between a good shooter and a bad one.

Know how I know you don't know what you're talking about?

When you've calmed down and decided to actually contribute something, you just let us know. I can continue to discuss this with Slava.

Tap out acknowledged.

[TyCobb]

Anyways... back to the topic.

[ozymandias818]

Anyways... back to the topic.

How does everyone think we can most effectively play this Fultz workout? In our favor would be nice. I think the most realistic thing is to mess with his and Boston's relationship, though. If they were smart they'd have already told him they were picking him before he got here.

[Kilroy]

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Oh geez...

[Kilroy]

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Sounds like he got the vibe we weren't really that into him...

I gotta say, either our FO is super smart, or they have absolutely no idea what the hell they're doing.