All things Draft Pick. #3

[Captain_Caveman]

They are so wrong. Cleveland just got its sh*t pushed in by GS. Cleveland. Who pushed the Cs sh*t in. They aren't an All Star forward away from anything.

Clear delusion and possible proof the Cs need new stewards.

so awful, lol.

In what ways? Butler and or a George don't get the Cs past Cleveland..let alone GS. IT gets exposed against elite teams. They have no guards that can stress a team consistently offensively. If IT had some knockdown shooters he could kick it out to that would help for sure but neither Butler nor George are those. They are guys who work best on the ball.

Again. Every anyalst says the Cavs and Warriors are at the top, and a steel decline to the next teams. I'd argue it's GS at the top, a decline to Cleveland and then the massive drop to the Cs for instance. So, to have owners and GMs that are willing to tilt at windmills...yeah it's a bit worrisome.

I'm not even a big IT guy, but do I even have to mention that he essentially missed the Cavs series?

Or that we would add two All-Stars before we play them again next year?

[Squigglepuffin]

If the trade it firmed up several days before the Lakers commit to their choice at #2, Ainge surely thinks there's a serious chance of trading the #3 onward. That's the only good reason not to delay the deal until draft night. (The other kind of reason would be if there were a danger of Philly pulling out of the deal, but I don't see a likely scenario for that.)

I'm guessing that Ainge is looking to trade the #3 for Paul George. The idea would be that he thinks the chance of Paul George turning into a Celtics player as good as Paul George over the next 5 or so years exceeds the chance of Markelle Fultz doing so, all concerns about the 2018 offseason notwithstanding.

I also suspect that Ainge loves at least 2 guys in the current backcourt (perhaps including Jaylen) more than many posters on this board do.

He wouldn't trade for PG without him signing an extension beforehand and that's not happening. People need to give up the Butler and George talks. That ship has sailed

[Captain_Caveman]

If the trade it firmed up several days before the Lakers commit to their choice at #2, Ainge surely thinks there's a serious chance of trading the #3 onward. That's the only good reason not to delay the deal until draft night. (The other kind of reason would be if there were a danger of Philly pulling out of the deal, but I don't see a likely scenario for that.)

I'm guessing that Ainge is looking to trade the #3 for Paul George. The idea would be that he thinks the chance of Paul George turning into a Celtics player as good as Paul George over the next 5 or so years exceeds the chance of Markelle Fultz doing so, all concerns about the 2018 offseason notwithstanding.

I also suspect that Ainge loves at least 2 guys in the current backcourt (perhaps including Jaylen) more than many posters on this board do.

He wouldn't trade for PG without him signing an extension beforehand and that's not happening. People need to give up the Butler and George talks. That ship has sailed

Why Butler?

[ViperGTS]

so awful, lol.

In what ways? Butler and or a George don't get the Cs past Cleveland..let alone GS. IT gets exposed against elite teams. They have no guards that can stress a team consistently offensively. If IT had some knockdown shooters he could kick it out to that would help for sure but neither Butler nor George are those. They are guys who work best on the ball.

Again. Every anyalst says the Cavs and Warriors are at the top, and a steel decline to the next teams. I'd argue it's GS at the top, a decline to Cleveland and then the massive drop to the Cs for instance. So, to have owners and GMs that are willing to tilt at windmills...yeah it's a bit worrisome.

I'm not even a big IT guy, but do I even have to mention that he essentially missed the Cavs series?

Or that we would add two All-Stars before we play them again next year?

IT gets bottled up by the trap and the big guys in the paint once they adjust to him AND he doesn't get the calls he expects. He's a great regular season and early playoff round player. That and his size means he will wear down sooner and we saw this this year. Dude is a warrior and has massive heart but that only goes so far.

Yeah two All Stars who still aren't the best players on the court against Cleveland or GS. Any combo (that's realistic) you come up with isn't better than the other teams' best players. Kyrie and Lebron..still better. Durant, Thompson and Curry...yeah..still better.

You've gone absolutely nowhere and if you sacrificed high draft picks/players (Jaylen) for that...you are certifiable.

[reload141]

If the trade it firmed up several days before the Lakers commit to their choice at #2, Ainge surely thinks there's a serious chance of trading the #3 onward. That's the only good reason not to delay the deal until draft night. (The other kind of reason would be if there were a danger of Philly pulling out of the deal, but I don't see a likely scenario for that.)

I'm guessing that Ainge is looking to trade the #3 for Paul George. The idea would be that he thinks the chance of Paul George turning into a Celtics player as good as Paul George over the next 5 or so years exceeds the chance of Markelle Fultz doing so, all concerns about the 2018 offseason notwithstanding.

I also suspect that Ainge loves at least 2 guys in the current backcourt (perhaps including Jaylen) more than many posters on this board do.

He wouldn't trade for PG without him signing an extension beforehand and that's not happening. People need to give up the Butler and George talks. That ship has sailed

Why Butler?

Who do you prefer out of the 2? I would've thought George as he doesn't need the ball in his hands as much, especially with bringing Hayward onboard... can stroke the 3 better too

[Squigglepuffin]

If Embiid's health comes together, and Simmons lives up to his potential as well, of course one should be worried about Philly.

It may be incorrect, but it's not ridiculous.

If Ainge thinks he can get a player as good as Fultz at 3 then he just won the trade by getting almost certainly another lottery pick out of it. On top of that Ainge is a superior GM to Philly's. You are building on "if" this or "if" that happens. It reminds me of some poster on here a few years ago saying that he would rather have Minny's team rather than the Celtics because Minny had a brighter future than Boston.

It all hinges on the draft picks now. Evertrhing Ainge has done is an if that or if this move. By getting protections and only giving up 1 extra pick, I'd say Colangelo was superior to Ainge in this specific deal. He got exactly what he needed and wanted and doesn't have to hope for the lottery.

Again, had the deal been 3, LAL 18, SAC '19 unprotected this would have been much, much easier to swallow. Those pesky () around after the pick description is brutal. Danny should have pushed away and said "You need Fultz. I know it. Your fans know it. The league knows it. Both...no protections or you get to keep searching and praying."

Instead he capitulated.

That makes no sense.

If Danny thinks player 1 is a B+ and player 3 is a B+
And he gets to take player 3 paying them less money and getting another lottery pick - that is a win.

The problem is you think there is no player on Fultz's level in this draft and if that were true then yes maybe Danny lost the trade but only if the future picks don't pan out. However if Danny is correct in that he can get a player of the same quality at 3, then he 100% won. But it is way too early to tell. In 4 years we'll be able to look back and know

[Captain_Caveman]

In what ways? Butler and or a George don't get the Cs past Cleveland..let alone GS. IT gets exposed against elite teams. They have no guards that can stress a team consistently offensively. If IT had some knockdown shooters he could kick it out to that would help for sure but neither Butler nor George are those. They are guys who work best on the ball.

Again. Every anyalst says the Cavs and Warriors are at the top, and a steel decline to the next teams. I'd argue it's GS at the top, a decline to Cleveland and then the massive drop to the Cs for instance. So, to have owners and GMs that are willing to tilt at windmills...yeah it's a bit worrisome.

I'm not even a big IT guy, but do I even have to mention that he essentially missed the Cavs series?

Or that we would add two All-Stars before we play them again next year?

IT gets bottled up by the trap and the big guys in the paint once they adjust to him AND he doesn't get the calls he expects. He's a great regular season and early playoff round player. That and his size means he will wear down sooner and we saw this this year. Dude is a warrior and has massive heart but that only goes so far.

Yeah two All Stars who still aren't the best players on the court against Cleveland or GS. Any combo (that's realistic) you come up with isn't better than the other teams' best players. Kyrie and Lebron..still better. Durant, Thompson and Curry...yeah..still better.

You've gone absolutely nowhere and if you sacrificed high draft picks/players (Jaylen) for that...you are certifiable.

I think we can land Butler and Hayward without doing anything painful, while also retaining Jaylen and at least 1 top 5 pick next year, if not two.

[Fencer reregistered]

He wouldn't trade for PG without him signing an extension beforehand and that's not happening.

Supposedly, he has said the exact opposite.

[Captain_Caveman]

He wouldn't trade for PG without him signing an extension beforehand and that's not happening. People need to give up the Butler and George talks. That ship has sailed

Why Butler?

Who do you prefer out of the 2? I would've thought George as he doesn't need the ball in his hands as much, especially with bringing Hayward onboard... can stroke the 3 better too

I'd go Butler.

[ViperGTS]

If Ainge thinks he can get a player as good as Fultz at 3 then he just won the trade by getting almost certainly another lottery pick out of it. On top of that Ainge is a superior GM to Philly's. You are building on "if" this or "if" that happens. It reminds me of some poster on here a few years ago saying that he would rather have Minny's team rather than the Celtics because Minny had a brighter future than Boston.

It all hinges on the draft picks now. Evertrhing Ainge has done is an if that or if this move. By getting protections and only giving up 1 extra pick, I'd say Colangelo was superior to Ainge in this specific deal. He got exactly what he needed and wanted and doesn't have to hope for the lottery.

Again, had the deal been 3, LAL 18, SAC '19 unprotected this would have been much, much easier to swallow. Those pesky () around after the pick description is brutal. Danny should have pushed away and said "You need Fultz. I know it. Your fans know it. The league knows it. Both...no protections or you get to keep searching and praying."

Instead he capitulated.

That makes no sense.

If Danny thinks player 1 is a B+ and player 3 is a B+
And he gets to take player 3 paying them less money and getting another lottery pick - that is a win.

The problem is you think there is no player on Fultz's level in this draft and if that were true then yes maybe Danny lost the trade but only if the future picks don't pan out. However if Danny is correct in that he can get a player of the same quality at 3, then he 100% won. But it is way too early to tell. In 4 years we'll be able to look back and know

Again. That's fine. Fultz, no Fultz. Sucks, but is what it is. It's the return and the protections and getting only 1 pick. The #3 doesn't count it's a swap. Should have been both and no protections. Danny seemed so desperate to get the 3 and whatever else he could he swallowed the worst of the best deals he could get.

That's my issue.

[Jakeopp]

I think we pick DSJ. The kid is Westbrookian.

I'd be happy with him at this point. Jumper isn't a big concern(why i'm against Jackson), best athlete in the draft, strikes me as more of a competitor than Fultz. At this point i'm afraid to pick a favorite player again...probably will just get let down again

[Wes-J]

I swear if we're trading a chest of picks for Butler..

[Fencer reregistered]

IT gets bottled up by the trap and the big guys in the paint once they adjust to him AND he doesn't get the calls he expects. He's a great regular season and early playoff round player.

I take it you feel he will not in the future learn to adapt well to these challenges.

On what body of evidence are you relying regarding IT's play in later playoff rounds?

[reload141]

IT gets bottled up by the trap and the big guys in the paint once they adjust to him AND he doesn't get the calls he expects. He's a great regular season and early playoff round player.

I take it you feel he will not in the future learn to adapt well to these challenges.

On what body of evidence are you relying regarding IT's play in later playoff rounds?

And isn't this the whole point of acquiring other stars? So they don't double and trap him because we have no one else competent enough to score?

[Fencer reregistered]

I swear if we're trading a chest of picks for Butler.

What if the only premium pick is this year's #3?

[ViperGTS]

I'm not even a big IT guy, but do I even have to mention that he essentially missed the Cavs series?

Or that we would add two All-Stars before we play them again next year?

IT gets bottled up by the trap and the big guys in the paint once they adjust to him AND he doesn't get the calls he expects. He's a great regular season and early playoff round player. That and his size means he will wear down sooner and we saw this this year. Dude is a warrior and has massive heart but that only goes so far.

Yeah two All Stars who still aren't the best players on the court against Cleveland or GS. Any combo (that's realistic) you come up with isn't better than the other teams' best players. Kyrie and Lebron..still better. Durant, Thompson and Curry...yeah..still better.

You've gone absolutely nowhere and if you sacrificed high draft picks/players (Jaylen) for that...you are certifiable.

I think we can land Butler and Hayward without doing anything painful, while also retaining Jaylen and at least 1 top 5 pick next year, if not two.

Giving up the #3 this year IS painful. And no guarantees the pick next year is going to be that high. In all reality, best way to approach It is it will be in the 20s, or even dead last. You cannot approach this offseason with next offseason factored in. This way, you don't make moves now that doesn't mesh with next year. What if they have pick 10 (BKN) and the LAL pick is 6. Doesn't look so good does it?

That's why you can't count on next years picks.

[ViperGTS]

I swear if we're trading a chest of picks for Butler.

What if the only premium pick is this year's #3?

Not worth it. Same as last year. I didn't think trading 3 was worth it for Butler. Waaay to rich of a price for him.

[Captain_Caveman]

IT gets bottled up by the trap and the big guys in the paint once they adjust to him AND he doesn't get the calls he expects. He's a great regular season and early playoff round player. That and his size means he will wear down sooner and we saw this this year. Dude is a warrior and has massive heart but that only goes so far.

Yeah two All Stars who still aren't the best players on the court against Cleveland or GS. Any combo (that's realistic) you come up with isn't better than the other teams' best players. Kyrie and Lebron..still better. Durant, Thompson and Curry...yeah..still better.

You've gone absolutely nowhere and if you sacrificed high draft picks/players (Jaylen) for that...you are certifiable.

I think we can land Butler and Hayward without doing anything painful, while also retaining Jaylen and at least 1 top 5 pick next year, if not two.

Giving up the #3 this year IS painful. And no guarantees the pick next year is going to be that high. In all reality, best way to approach It is it will be in the 20s, or even dead last. You cannot approach this offseason with next offseason factored in. This way, you don't make moves now that doesn't mesh with next year. What if they have pick 10 (BKN) and the LAL pick is 6. Doesn't look so good does it?

That's why you can't count on next years picks.

I would loooooove for the Lakers pick to be 6th next year, actually.

The Kings are the new Nets.

[Fencer reregistered]

One thing I don't get: If Ainge is planning to trade the #3, when is the trade?

-- Finalizing the deal Monday makes little sense (assuming that actually happens) unless he's planning to trade the pick further.
-- Trading the pick for an established star might make more sense in July (greater maneuvering flexibility despite losing Zeller's contract) than it does now.

Of course, neither of those objections applies if he trades the pick down further.

[pfm]

The prophecy is upon us. This is indeed where the plastic people have come to melt.