All things Draft Pick. #3

[jfs1000d]

One item that seems to have gotten lost a bit in the fray of trading the #1 pick is this:

Why the **** are we working out DSJ and Markannen? Those are guys expected to go in the 7-10 range on most mock sites. I don't buy that we're just doing thorough due diligence for the #3 pick and that someone like Markannen would even be in consideration there.

Combine that data point with the Celtics decision to agree to this deal on Monday rather than letting it ride up until the draft in hopes of getting a better offer from the 76ers, and give me 1 second so I can get out my jump to conclusions mat:



I believe the Celtics are looking at getting back at pick in the mid-to-late lottery as part of whatever bigger move they might be making. That means Sacramento, Orlando, Minnesota, NYK, Dallas, Charlotte, and Detroit are all teams we might look to trade with to get one of their veteran stars (or the closest thing they have to one) while doing a pick swap and throwing in salaries to make the deal work. Or you could imagine a 3 way deal where one of the young talented pieces from a team like Minnesota or Orlando (for example) goes to Chicago or Indiana, in exchange for the #3 pick while we take back the MIN/ORL pick and get Butler... in addition to sending out other players, picks etc. as appropriate.

Anyway, I know I'm connecting some loosely grouped dots here, but I think this makes sense.

I think Ainge wants back in in mid lottery. I get doing due diligence, but Ainge has had too many 7-10 pick range guys in.


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[Fencer reregistered]

I would rather have Ball/Brown or Jackson/Brown than Simmons.

BTW ..... Jackson Brown...... I already like where that is going....

Indeed!

Watch on YouTube

[3D Chess]

In light of this trade and the fact that I accidentally stole an established posters username, could I please request a name change to Degenerate Danny?

Mods?

[galipeautim]

One item that seems to have gotten lost a bit in the fray of trading the #1 pick is this:

Why the **** are we working out DSJ and Markannen? Those are guys expected to go in the 7-10 range on most mock sites. I don't buy that we're just doing thorough due diligence for the #3 pick and that someone like Markannen would even be in consideration there.

Combine that data point with the Celtics decision to agree to this deal on Monday rather than letting it ride up until the draft in hopes of getting a better offer from the 76ers, and give me 1 second so I can get out my jump to conclusions mat:



I believe the Celtics are looking at getting back at pick in the mid-to-late lottery as part of whatever bigger move they might be making. That means Sacramento, Orlando, Minnesota, NYK, Dallas, Charlotte, and Detroit are all teams we might look to trade with to get one of their veteran stars (or the closest thing they have to one) while doing a pick swap and throwing in salaries to make the deal work. Or you could imagine a 3 way deal where one of the young talented pieces from a team like Minnesota or Orlando (for example) goes to Chicago or Indiana, in exchange for the #3 pick while we take back the MIN/ORL pick and get Butler... in addition to sending out other players, picks etc. as appropriate.

Anyway, I know I'm connecting some loosely grouped dots here, but I think this makes sense.

I think Ainge wants back in in mid lottery. I get doing due diligence, but Ainge has had too many 7-10 pick range guys in.


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Why wouldn't he bring them in regardless. He gets an extra opportunity to workout guys that he may be want to sign and/or trade for in the future. When else would he get that chance?

[return2glory]

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Yes this is the plan. Ainge and Wyc have said this recently.

Think about it for a second. We were one of only 3 teams still standing in the playoffs. We had one all star. The Cavs had 3, Warriors had 4.

Hayward has been rumored to come to Boston for months. So has Butler. If Ainge gets those two, that's now a team of 3 all-stars plus Horford. The plan is to keep getting better than closer to the Warriors. Hopefully when we add those players, we are still able to keep Jaylen and the Nets 2018 and watch Jaylen, Zizic and Yabs develop and help our 3 all-stars and Horford.

[Smog]

One item that seems to have gotten lost a bit in the fray of trading the #1 pick is this:

Why the **** are we working out DSJ and Markannen? Those are guys expected to go in the 7-10 range on most mock sites. I don't buy that we're just doing thorough due diligence for the #3 pick and that someone like Markannen would even be in consideration there.

Combine that data point with the Celtics decision to agree to this deal on Monday rather than letting it ride up until the draft in hopes of getting a better offer from the 76ers, and give me 1 second so I can get out my jump to conclusions mat:



I believe the Celtics are looking at getting back at pick in the mid-to-late lottery as part of whatever bigger move they might be making. That means Sacramento, Orlando, Minnesota, NYK, Dallas, Charlotte, and Detroit are all teams we might look to trade with to get one of their veteran stars (or the closest thing they have to one) while doing a pick swap and throwing in salaries to make the deal work. Or you could imagine a 3 way deal where one of the young talented pieces from a team like Minnesota or Orlando (for example) goes to Chicago or Indiana, in exchange for the #3 pick while we take back the MIN/ORL pick and get Butler... in addition to sending out other players, picks etc. as appropriate.

Anyway, I know I'm connecting some loosely grouped dots here, but I think this makes sense.

It could also be they're looking at a scenario where Fultz-Ball go 1-2 and Sacramento trades up for a guard.

Cs would select someone like Fox, then trade him back for Jackson or Tatum.

[Froob]

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Yes this is the plan. Ainge and Wyc have said this recently.

Think about it for a second. We were one of only 3 teams still standing in the playoffs. We had one all star. The Cavs had 3, Warriors had 4.

Hayward has been rumored to come to Boston for months. So has Butler. If Ainge gets those two, that's now a team of 3 all-stars plus Horford. The plan is to keep getting better than closer to the Warriors. Hopefully when we add those players, we are still able to keep Jaylen and the Nets 2018 and watch Jaylen, Zizic and Yabs develop and help our 3 all-stars and Horford.

Those two were still much better than us though.

[winsomme2]

Danny just traded the next Kyrie Irving for Nicolas Batum.

This is funny to me because one of my concerns about Fultz was that he'd be a Kyrie. An outstanding offensive player, but his defense is bad enough so that he never sniffs top 10 player.

Well I'd certainly take kyrie over jimmy butler

[DK-All Day]

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Yes this is the plan. Ainge and Wyc have said this recently.

Think about it for a second. We were one of only 3 teams still standing in the playoffs. We had one all star. The Cavs had 3, Warriors had 4.

Hayward has been rumored to come to Boston for months. So has Butler. If Ainge gets those two, that's now a team of 3 all-stars plus Horford. The plan is to keep getting better than closer to the Warriors. Hopefully when we add those players, we are still able to keep Jaylen and the Nets 2018 and watch Jaylen, Zizic and Yabs develop and help our 3 all-stars and Horford.

We need a top 5 player like Durant, LeBron , or Curry to compete with those guys. They are all time greats. We don't have one.

People are in for a rude awakening

[Smitty731]

The scale amount for #3 is $4,704,500.00

The cap hold for that pick is 120% of that or $5,645,400.00

The cap hold changes to 120% with the new CBA because 99.9% of all draft picks signed for the max they were allowed which was 120% of the scale amount.

Question 1: When can rookies be signed? Can they be signed as soon they're drafted or does the team have to wait until July 1?
Question 2: If a team wants to trade its player for another player (both non-FAs), which salaries are used for matching if it's executed before July 1? Is there a cutoff date when new salaries are used for salary matching?

The reason I asked is AB + #3 doesn't seem enough for a hypothetical trade for Paul George if salaries for 2017-18 are used but it's enough if salaries for 2016-17 are used. It appears if a trade for a star happens, it would have to come after a hypothetical max FA signing, is that correct? In that case, additional salary would be needed in my made-up trade (probably a signed 2nd rounder?).

Thanks in advance for the help!

Rookie can be signed as soon as the day after the draft. It used to be that you signed your rookies last, because of the extra 20% bump in pay. Everyone would conserve that last little bit of cap space. But that loophole was eliminated. The idea behind that was to get more players signed and protected for Summer League and offseason workouts.

As for trading, pre 7/1, the 2016-17 (or this year's) salaries are what is used. After 7/1, the 2017-19 (or next year's) salaries are what is used. For Draft picks, they count as $0.00 in trade until they are signed. Pre-signing they are just draft rights, no salary attached.

If you sign a rookie, you have to wait 30 days before you can trade. This is what happened with Andrew Wiggins in the Kevin Love trade. But you then have the advantage of having his salary count as matching in trade.

[greenroom31]

Why wouldn't he bring them in regardless. He gets an extra opportunity to workout guys that he may be want to sign and/or trade for in the future. When else would he get that chance?

2 points -- 1, why not focus your time and effort on guys available where you have other picks? And 2, why would the agents for these players agree to send their guy for a workout if they know the Celtics aren't taking their guys there. I mean, no way does Markannen go at 3 regardless of how optimistic his agent is. So he's going to send his guy out there to do a workout, medicals etc. just as a favor to Ainge? Hard to believe when you consider how few players even go to the freaking combine anymore.

[galipeautim]

I believe the Celtics are looking at getting back at pick in the mid-to-late lottery as part of whatever bigger move they might be making. That means Sacramento, Orlando, Minnesota, NYK, Dallas, Charlotte, and Detroit are all teams we might look to trade with to get one of their veteran stars (or the closest thing they have to one) while doing a pick swap and throwing in salaries to make the deal work. Or you could imagine a 3 way deal where one of the young talented pieces from a team like Minnesota or Orlando (for example) goes to Chicago or Indiana, in exchange for the #3 pick while we take back the MIN/ORL pick and get Butler... in addition to sending out other players, picks etc. as appropriate.

Keeping with this vein, targets could include:

Detroit: Drummond
Orlando: Gordon (or Gordon goes to 3rd team in exchange for George/Butler and we get #6 while sending out other players/assets)
Charlotte: MKG (see Gordon comments above, although this seems less plausible)
Minnesota: Wiggins or LaVine? Or if Chicago still holds a flame for Dunn maybe Dunn goes to Chicago as part of a Butler deal?
NYK: Wishful thinking: Porzingis, more likely, **** Carmelo
Sacramento: Skal or WCS?
Dallas: ummm.... Harrison Barnes? (<ducks>)

We are not doing a deal for any of those targets. If DA is accumulating more high value draft pick it means he is looking for a really big fish (maybe AD). He already had the bait to get these other guys.

[Fencer reregistered]

I haven't slept yet but it feels like Danny is boutta dunk on the league

I tried to find a video of Danny Ainge dunking. I failed.

But guess who his career game was against?

Watch on YouTube

[galipeautim]

Why wouldn't he bring them in regardless. He gets an extra opportunity to workout guys that he may be want to sign and/or trade for in the future. When else would he get that chance?

2 points -- 1, why not focus your time and effort on guys available where you have other picks? And 2, why would the agents for these players agree to send their guy for a workout if they know the Celtics aren't taking their guys there. I mean, no way does Markannen go at 3 regardless of how optimistic his agent is. So he's going to send his guy out there to do a workout, medicals etc. just as a favor to Ainge? Hard to believe when you consider how few players even go to the freaking combine anymore.

because none of those players' agents know if the Celtics are going to trade back or not. I'm not saying DA won't trade back. I think the only chance that happens though is if the Lakers pick Josh Jackson.

[winsomme2]

After getting a little sleep and logically thinking about it, this is pretty simple and people are overthinking it way too much. Bottom line is Ainge wasn't in love with Fultz at #1. He knew he could get "the guy" he wants at #3. And why not get an additional asset in the meantime. I don't see him trading it for PG or Butler. Not happening. If he would, he would have done it at the trade deadline. As for why did he do it now? Perhaps the Sixers put a deadline on it? Maybe he's gonna make other moves involving players. Who knows? But this is clear cut, IMO. He likes someone he can get at #3, add an asset and create some cap space for FA.

Let me put this in perspective from where I'm sitting:

Danny just traded the next Kyrie Irving for Nicolas Batum. Batum is a really nice player. Athletic, skilled defensively, good in transition, and can score at times, but never will be an elite player.

For me, Fultz is going to tear it up and Jackson is going to be a solid starter. That is not prospects that are close in ability like Danny apparently is saying.

If you disagree with my evaluation, fine, but if you agree, you'd be flipping out too because a Kyrie Irving type on this team would help this team take a huge leap forward.

But that's the thing. Logic ssys to trust the pro scouts over the evaluation of me or you. Danny knows ball better thwn of us. Thats a fact.

But the pro scouts are saying Fultz far and above the best prospect in this draft including the Sixers who just traded for him.

Danny right now is the outlier

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

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Yes this is the plan. Ainge and Wyc have said this recently.

Think about it for a second. We were one of only 3 teams still standing in the playoffs. We had one all star. The Cavs had 3, Warriors had 4.

Hayward has been rumored to come to Boston for months. So has Butler. If Ainge gets those two, that's now a team of 3 all-stars plus Horford. The plan is to keep getting better than closer to the Warriors. Hopefully when we add those players, we are still able to keep Jaylen and the Nets 2018 and watch Jaylen, Zizic and Yabs develop and help our 3 all-stars and Horford.

So I'm still confused because i'm not diving in on that type of math for one. 2, I dont understand the cap either. But is he saying that we can afford a butler level contract (17.5mil) or a PG13 level contract (19.5mil) plus 1 qty 30mil max contract like Hawyard or Griffin? Or is he saying that we can acquire 2 qty 30mil contracts this offseason. One via sign and trade and the other via free agency?

Basically are we going to look like Hayward/Griffin best case scenario next season or a comobo of Butler/Hayward or PG13/Hayward?

[Celtics_Champs]

Bout to dunk on the league or about to turn this team into Lob City east coast version? Drafts Jackson and signs Blake that is exactly what you'll get.

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[Jaqua92]

Now that the initial shock has worn off, I suppose my reactions were a bit melodramatic. Perhaps Lonzo is Jason Kidd, Jackson becomes a Paul George-type two-way star, and Tatum is Carmelo with a better attitude. Any one could end up being the best player in the draft.

But I'm still disappointed because Fultz seems like such a sure thing. We need another guy who can create his own shot so desperately. He has a good chance to be a Durant level scorer.

Still, Danny and his team deserve to be trusted. Here's hoping Lonzo agrees to work out with us now.

Danny did think so, apparently.

And Durant level? Come on man

[Froob]

Think it'll be

Fultz (duh)
Jackson
Tatum
Ball

[SmartWentCrazy]

Let me put this in perspective from where I'm sitting:

Danny just traded the next Kyrie Irving for Nicolas Batum. Batum is a really nice player. Athletic, skilled defensively, good in transition, and can score at times, but never will be an elite player.

For me, Fultz is going to tear it up and Jackson is going to be a solid starter. That is not prospects that are close in ability like Danny apparently is saying.

If you disagree with my evaluation, fine, but if you agree, you'd be flipping out too because a Kyrie Irving type on this team would help this team take a huge leap forward.

But that's the thing. Logic ssys to trust the pro scouts over the evaluation of me or you. Danny knows ball better thwn of us. Thats a fact.

But the pro scouts are saying Fultz far and above the best prospect in this draft including the Sixers who just traded for him.

Danny right now is the outlier

Danny was the outlier on Oden vs Durant, too.

He may be wrong, he may be right. But I'd rather have the guy that has the balls to trust his gut than the weenie who only drafts consensus BPA.