All things Draft Pick. #3

[Cornbread]

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Just as I was warming up to the trade I see this. That can't be true.

Now this, would be bad.

Not sure we're keeping this pick.

Could be reverse protections.
I'm actually cautiously optimistic that this could mean all the terms weren't released and were actually getting another pick too.

[BRUNiNHO91]

The beautiful thing about this development is that the Lakers will not be able to sign decent vet free agents to multi-year deals because they need to clear cap to sign PG13. We really do want the Lakers to be lousy again.

yep

So the good thing about the best vet that we could have brought to Boston saying he is going to the Lakers is that it might make a pick better.

Wow. You guys will look at this trade as a win no matter what.

We've spent pages upon pages talking about the other shoe dropping and from where I'm sitting it just just dropped right on our head.

We wanted George to come here. Saying he's going to the Lakers is not good news. That now means that best case scenario is Tatum and Butler....neither of which do I want.

Lakers will suck this year in order to keep capspace to sign George the year after. Even if we took a chance and traded for him..they would still suck to try and get him in free agency by not adding major salary..we are trying to maximize the deal that we just made by getting a top 3 or so pick from them. How is this hard to get?

Plus if we really want to trade for the guy, dude's price just officially fell of a friggin cliff. Win, win, win, wins all over the place IMO.

[Almeida]

Better hope those "parameters" are good for us, otherwise this trade is just terrible.

[Red2]

This may turn out to be a great trade but just once I wanted the number one pick in the draft ! And I'm tired of waiting for us to use our "assets" . It finally looked like all of that patience was going to be rewarded with the number one pick and then Danny trades it. Talk about taking the air out of the balloon. Drafting another guard was always going to be tough and not too long ago Danny said he needed to balance out the roster so I can understand wanting to do that . I assumed that once we got Fultz that bradley or smart or Rozier were gone .But something happened when they brought Fultz in. When Danny didn't immediately gush about him I thought something was up.if Danny thought Fultz was the next kyrie or harden he would have taken him regardless of roster imbalance . I think Bryan colangelo is a good evaluator of talent so either he's wrong or Danny's wrong . And since I haven't been enamored of Danny's drafting , the possibility that he got this wrong is very frightening. But if he got it right and picks the right guy at 3 and gets another 1st in the process - well then Danny will be regarded as one of the best gms ever

[Double Helix]

Sort of OT but since the Woj bomb about George officially declaring he wants out and isn't interested in the extra money Indiana can offer...
http://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Aaron-Mintz/58

Two of the Lakers prospects are represented by the same agent as George himself.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Still hoping we can go from 3 to 4 or 5/10 and still get Jackson/Tatum. Lot of teams love Fox. With the Sixers openly committing to Fultz, we can still control the early lottery from here.

[fallguy]

Now this, would be bad.

Not sure we're keeping this pick.

Could be reverse protections.
I'm actually cautiously optimistic that this could mean all the terms weren't released and were actually getting another pick too.

There has definitely been some muddled reporting on the exact terms.

[Fencer reregistered]

Nah, this doesn't feel like the rumors that Westbrook and Love liked LA. This sounds different. I'd be very cautious about trading for George. And if Butler is really off the market, we're either going to overpay for him, cue Ainge, "It's hard to get stars in this league", or we're going to do something else. If we max Hayward or Griffin and add Jackson or Tatum, and Zizic, to the mix, it's not a home run given what the potential scenarios are, but it's a bases-clearing double.

There's also a possibility we trade down again, or trade in with different assets to get another pick. But we're still going to be trending upward.

I'm with you on George. I'd give up serious value for him only if he signed an extension as part of the deal.

My point is that you won't have to give up serious value for him. No team is going to offer much based on his decision to want to go to LA. Then it becomes what is the best offer out of the lowball offers for Indy. They will have to take something or risk getting zero in return. If we can lowball it enough to the point we don't lose much if it does become a 1 year rental, you have to chance it. I'd offer Crowder, a non BKN 1st rounder and a filler player.

Good point.

My bid for him would certainly be a lot lower than what it was a few pages ago in this thread, before the latest news came out.

[greenroom31]

I'm not sure how anyone can be celebrating or trashing this trade yet. We don't even know what the exact deal is, or if another trade is coming before/at the draft.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

Indy needs to save face. If johnson is stupid enough to give them the #2 pick, good lord please let him.

[BRUNiNHO91]

So protection on the Kings pick also? If the protection saves both picks for Philly wtf do we get then? Just the 3? Has to be like top 1 protection..

This is starting to get super silly now. Don't even feel like commenting anymore until it's in stone.

[The Corey's]

For The love of god Ainge back the **** out.

[Fencer reregistered]

I'm not sure how anyone can be celebrating or trashing this trade yet. We don't even know what the exact deal is, or if another trade is coming before/at the draft.

Well, one can comment on the presumed terms. But celebrating or trashing Ainge is certainly premature.

Meanwhile, I think it would be hilarious if Philly wound up taking Jackson or Ball #1.

[Bill Lumbergh]

So, any chance we trade down to 5 and 10? Trade the 5 and other picks for Butler and then drafting DSJ at 10 maybe? We've brought him in for 2 workouts now.

Seeing as I don't want to trade 3, or BKN 18, LAL 18, or Brown for Butler, I'd be good with your scenario. Give them 5 and probably Avery and Crowder, we keep 10. Those other high end assets are an overpay for Butler.

[ViperGTS]

What are you even talking about?

We were a 25-win team that gave up jack and squat, lol.

NONSENSE.

I'm not a sugar high kinda person. Did that back in '08 and got bailed out by Brooklyn and the basketball gods saying here's your chance at long term success.

Cut it whichever way you want, when a any team wins a title it's nice but it's only one. So talk to me when you win multiples. I want multiples. I don't want one. Maybe I'm spoiled, or maybe it's the level of excellence that has been created in Boston over the past 15 years.

I hold every Boston team to the same standard. The Bs are lagging as have the Cs. But in the NBA it's hard and I get that. But this is a golden opportunity that doesn't involve trading picks for older vets.

You are a bad thinker, bro.

Keep thinking that. This team is in its infancy right now. Make smart draft choices and grow that baby. I want a powerhouse for the next decade plus. Not just 2-3 years.

[Slartibartfast]

We'd care, because that's 2 Nets picks for the price of 1 by just drafting Fultz. So if Fultz does become a Harden, this trade is awful. I just think that's a pretty nutty/unrealistic goal for Fultz. He can't even drive and create contact against NCAA caliber athletes at the level Harden is able to against NBA athletes. Harden's driving game is at a level that Fultz is unlikely to ever come to close reaching, if you ask me. Harden is like 20+ pounds heavier and probably even still quicker too. Some have argued they are concerned about his shot due to his low FT%, but it's fact that he wasn't just destroying NCAA defenders off the dribble that concerned me. Guys like Kris Dunn laughably get compared to John Wall based on facing weaker NCAA athletes and then can't drive anywhere near the same once they move up to next level. Marcus Smart another guy who was an elite driver in college but can't do it in pros. Now the difference there is that i do believe Fultz can/will be a high level shooter so I'd be real surprised if he were ever an offensive bust like those guys are currently, but I also can't see the James Harden comparisons for a guy who doesn't get to the rim at will against even NCAA caliber athletes. Not to mention his FT rate is far worse because he favors acrobatic finishes that shy away from contact (think Kyrie, D-Rose) rather than Harden's full speed/try and go through the defender and create contact approach. That's just a less efficient style because FT's are the most efficient shot in basketball.

Now hey, crazy development can happen for any prospect so never say never. Who thought Curry and Kawhi would be this level of players? But I don't see much reasonable evidence suggesting that Fultz ever becomes a Harden like talent. It'd take an outlier developmental curve to reach that kind of level.

I think this is logical. The only counter would be that Harden, Curry, Dunn, Lillard weren't as good as Fultz at age 19. All of those guys had to go back to school at least one more year to reach the next level of development that made them clear cut high lotto picks. Some of them played 4 years of college ball.

Fultz entered college as a very high recruit and performed even better than expected, besting another teen PG who just so happens to be 6'6 and often compared to Jason Kidd. So, it's probably less about looking at how Fultz compared to those guys when they were drafted and more about how they looked at age 18/19 as well.

I'm not sure how good he will be though in his prime. It's a good time for PGs in this league who can shoot the 3 but there's also a lot of them out there. What makes him truly special? I'm not sure and it sounds like Ainge wasn't either.

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One thing worth considering, so many of Fultz games were under the radar and his team losing, opponents didn't have a huge incentive to try to stop him like a KD at Texas. KD was receiving lots of hype and his team was pretty good so defenders were awfully aggressive. Fultz may have been well known to folks following the draft but wasn't receiving that much national hype because his team was bad and he isn't really a spectacular player to watch in terms of athleticism.

One way I look at it...if Fultz for his career is 90-100% as good as the average of Rose/Iverson/Kyrie/Wall/Harden, I am actually not upset Ainge gambled and traded him to get that 2nd pick and a chance at a higher upside player/major trade chip. Now I will be the first to admit, I am worried about what Ainge does next but I think this was a gamble worth taking in isolation.

If one is really playing chess and not checkers, a reason to take Jackson or some other player over Fultz is it better maintains IT trade value and Boston can perhaps ship him out at the deadline....

If Fultz is Wade in terms of impact as a 2 way player, the deal will probably haunt Ainge but I can see it being reasonable for Ainge to gamble that he is not.

I'd go further than you and say can't say Fultz bested Ball at all at the college level in anything other than convincing most pro scouts he had more potential. And sometimes those scouts get things really wrong. UCLA hammered Fultz's team and Ball outplayed Fultz in that game as far as I am concerned. It was just one game but given fairly similar stats as measured by PER, have to give the edge to Ball at the college level. One can certainly argue that Fultz better NBA prospect but its hard to argue Fultz actually had the better college season when UCLA outperformed decent expectations and Fultz's team underperformed lower expectations. People were expecting UCLA to be better but nowhere near that much better than Washington.

Curry I'd bet for winning games was better as a freshman than Fultz. Shot 85.5% from the line. His team went 29-5 and he scored nearly as many points as Fultz and I suspect gave greater effort on D.

Frosh Curry's Davidson team beasted against an obscure conference. They got destroyed by good NCAA teams - think they lost to Duke by 30+.

Anyways, I disagree with these takes on Fultz. His teammates really were that bad and you have to watch the Washington games to appreciate this. No other quality playmaking outside of Fultz. Only 2 other shooters. Bigs that were slow, undersized and underskilled (no range). A dreadful bench.

Put Ball on that team and he would massively struggle. No way he could do as much off-ball with Crisp and Thybulle making plays. No way would he have those straight line drives with Washington's spacing. No way would he get as many transition opps with that awful D.

As for Rondo Show's Harden/Fultz comp, there are other ways to score than Harden 3/speed/power approach. Sure Fultz doesn't have Harden's frame, but let's not pretend he didn't get to the line. You can't hold his FTr against him when his volume was considerable.

Nor did he shy away from contact - guy went right into people's bodies.

And while he doesn't have all of Harden's slashing toolkit, Harden doesn't have his either. Harden has more burst, but Fultz has a lot more wiggle. Indeed this is one of Harden's problems - he is prone to awful shooting/turnover nights at bad times because he depends so much on the whistle and hammering the same play over and over again. Fultz many counter-options (spins, pull-ups, floaters, up and unders).

So while Fultz may never have the sheer speed/power combo that allows him to put up ridiculous seasons like Westbrook and Harden, I think his supreme versatility as a scorer will allow him to take what the defense gives him even more effectively. Sort of like Brandon Roy or Ginobili or Pierce. And he's young enough and athletic enough and big enough relative to his position to maybe break through to an even higher threshold.

[fallguy]

I'm not a sugar high kinda person. Did that back in '08 and got bailed out by Brooklyn and the basketball gods saying here's your chance at long term success.

Cut it whichever way you want, when a any team wins a title it's nice but it's only one. So talk to me when you win multiples. I want multiples. I don't want one. Maybe I'm spoiled, or maybe it's the level of excellence that has been created in Boston over the past 15 years.

I hold every Boston team to the same standard. The Bs are lagging as have the Cs. But in the NBA it's hard and I get that. But this is a golden opportunity that doesn't involve trading picks for older vets.

You are a bad thinker, bro.

Keep thinking that. This team is in its infancy right now. Make smart draft choices and grow that baby. I want a powerhouse for the next decade plus. Not just 2-3 years.

How old are you?

[ViperGTS]

Indy needs to save face. If johnson is stupid enough to give them the #2 pick, good lord please let him.

So I take it the 3rd for George plus Jaylen etc is to much as well, correct?

[ViperGTS]

You are a bad thinker, bro.

Keep thinking that. This team is in its infancy right now. Make smart draft choices and grow that baby. I want a powerhouse for the next decade plus. Not just 2-3 years.

How old are you?

What does it matter? Wanting sustained success is age dependent?

[LarryBirdsFingr]

Viper, this deal makes that more of a reality.