ImageImageImage

Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, sixers hoops, Foshan, Sixerscan

Grade the trade

A+
49
26%
A
43
23%
A-
28
15%
B+
24
13%
B
14
8%
B-
2
1%
C+
1
1%
C
6
3%
D
5
3%
F
14
8%
 
Total votes: 186

Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,946
And1: 16,328
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1321 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:46 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:I'm just very nervous about Fultz. I'm in a wait and see mode with him. If he doesn't impress in Summer League that will make me even more nervous. I just don't see why so many think he's head and shoulders better than the rest of the class. I just don't see it. I don't. I don't think he's the best prospect. I just want to be so wrong on him. His gait is weird. He moves a little funny. He doesn't have quick burst or acceleration. The one thing I do love about him is his dedication. He seems very dedicated to improving his game. To go from not being a highly touted recruit as a sophomore in High School to being the top pick in the draft shows hard work.

He has a calm demeanor. I guess that can be viewed as good or bad. On the court I don't see that dog in him like I do with a guy like Josh Jackson. I hope he has a winning mentality on the court and can take over games. Oh another thing I like is his rapid growth from going from 5'9 to 6'4. Hopefully he grows another 2 inches. I just want him to be great.

The more people that outline the reasons they don't like him and all they can say is stuff like "his gait is weird" just makes me more and more confident about this pick lol.
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,330
And1: 20,926
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1322 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:54 am

LongLiveHinkie wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Ben wrote:
Eh, I don't know. Even if it can be done, wouldn't the value decrease so much that it'd just be better to keep it? The chance of it going to Philly or Boston would bring the price down to pennies on the dollar.

There would have to be a backup scenario-- as in, "in exchange for what Team B gives the Sixers, Team B receives the Lakers pick if it's 6-30 or ELSE Team B receives Asset(s) X." Team B would have to be willing to do the trade in question for Asset X. And the Sixers would have to value Asset X almost as much as they value a possible mid to late lottery pick. Who fits the bill? Not Okafor, I assume.

LongLiveHinkie wrote:It can't be done. Picks can't be traded twice. It can only be traded after the lottery next season, should it not convey to Boston.



Picks can be traded repeatedly. The only way they cannot is if a range is to small too count for a trade (you need top 55 protection not top 59), or if it would violate Stepien. The second happens a lot because in a traditional team with only their own pick:

I.e. Clippers owe lotto protected pick in '18 and '19, if not 2 2nds. If Clippers traded '18 1-14 range, they would violate Stepien -- {1-14 in '18 and then 15-30 in '19 means two future years with no picks}


Sixers in 2014 traded a 2nd rounder 4 times... and kept the part that had the pick:

56-60
51-55
46-50
41-45
and the team maintained 31-40

https://web.archive.org/web/20140312160333/http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

2014 second round draft pick to Washington
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to Washington protected for selections 31-45 and 51-60 (if this pick falls within either of its protected ranges and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to Washington will be extinguished) [Philadelphia-Washington, 2/20/2014]

2014 second round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City (via Memphis) protected for selections 31-50 and 56-60 (if this pick falls within either of its protected ranges and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished) [Memphis-Philadelphia, 8/22/2013 and then Boston-Memphis-Oklahoma City, 1/7/2014]

2014 second round draft pick to Houston
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to Houston protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to Houston will be extinguished) [Houston-Philadelphia, 7/13/2013]

2014 second round draft pick to L.A. Clippers
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to the L.A. Clippers protected for selections 31-40 and 46-60 (if this pick falls within either of its protected ranges and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to the L.A. Clippers will be extinguished) [L.A. Clippers-Philadelphia, 2/20/2014]


So right now we could trade the Lakers pick to another team that has the complete inverse protections as the one we traded to Boston? Guess I was wrong. I could have sworn the NBA had a rule against it, even though it makes sense to allow it.


We could. The main reason why it never happens is it almost always triggers Stepien. The only way it doesn't is because this is an extra pick (and before this past year you couldn't add protection on other team's picks).
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,330
And1: 20,926
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1323 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 am

I'm so glad it wasn't Josh Jackson. His shot scares me so much.

I talked myself into Monk. I was open to Tatum. I was Isaac curious. But watching the rims clank for 4 more years was going to hurt.
Unbreakable99
General Manager
Posts: 8,752
And1: 3,993
Joined: Jul 04, 2014

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1324 » by Unbreakable99 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:59 am

Sixerscan wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:I'm just very nervous about Fultz. I'm in a wait and see mode with him. If he doesn't impress in Summer League that will make me even more nervous. I just don't see why so many think he's head and shoulders better than the rest of the class. I just don't see it. I don't. I don't think he's the best prospect. I just want to be so wrong on him. His gait is weird. He moves a little funny. He doesn't have quick burst or acceleration. The one thing I do love about him is his dedication. He seems very dedicated to improving his game. To go from not being a highly touted recruit as a sophomore in High School to being the top pick in the draft shows hard work.

He has a calm demeanor. I guess that can be viewed as good or bad. On the court I don't see that dog in him like I do with a guy like Josh Jackson. I hope he has a winning mentality on the court and can take over games. Oh another thing I like is his rapid growth from going from 5'9 to 6'4. Hopefully he grows another 2 inches. I just want him to be great.

The more people that outline the reasons they don't like him and all they can say is stuff like "his gait is weird" just makes me more and more confident about this pick lol.


I'm not bashing Fultz. He's a Sixer now so I'm not rooting for him to fail so I can be right. I want him to succeed and be great. I'm just giving my opinion and I don't think it's unreasonable. I just hope the 90% of the people who say Fultz is clearly the best prospect and will be great are correct. BC seems to draft well so I trust him.
User avatar
Mik317
RealGM
Posts: 41,443
And1: 20,071
Joined: May 31, 2005
Location: In Spain...without the S
       

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1325 » by Mik317 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:00 am

summer league success is rather meaningless. As long as you guy looks like he belongs, its cool Most guys will shoot like ****, look bad on defense and occasionally "get exposed" but a lot of that is the nature of the helter skelter game and the fact that the large majority of players are fighting for their lives.
#NeverGonnaBeGood
MR28
Starter
Posts: 2,370
And1: 1,553
Joined: Jun 22, 2016
       

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1326 » by MR28 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:00 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:I'm so glad it wasn't Josh Jackson. His shot scares me so much.

I talked myself into Monk. I was open to Tatum. I was Isaac curious. But watching the rims clank for 4 more years was going to hurt.

Gross.
User avatar
Ben
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 26,806
And1: 2,941
Joined: Feb 09, 2006

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1327 » by Ben » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:00 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:I'm so glad it wasn't Josh Jackson. His shot scares me so much.

I talked myself into Monk. I was open to Tatum. I was Isaac curious. But watching the rims clank for 4 more years was going to hurt.


I prefer Ike-curious. ;-)
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,946
And1: 16,328
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1328 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:02 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:I'm just very nervous about Fultz. I'm in a wait and see mode with him. If he doesn't impress in Summer League that will make me even more nervous. I just don't see why so many think he's head and shoulders better than the rest of the class. I just don't see it. I don't. I don't think he's the best prospect. I just want to be so wrong on him. His gait is weird. He moves a little funny. He doesn't have quick burst or acceleration. The one thing I do love about him is his dedication. He seems very dedicated to improving his game. To go from not being a highly touted recruit as a sophomore in High School to being the top pick in the draft shows hard work.

He has a calm demeanor. I guess that can be viewed as good or bad. On the court I don't see that dog in him like I do with a guy like Josh Jackson. I hope he has a winning mentality on the court and can take over games. Oh another thing I like is his rapid growth from going from 5'9 to 6'4. Hopefully he grows another 2 inches. I just want him to be great.

The more people that outline the reasons they don't like him and all they can say is stuff like "his gait is weird" just makes me more and more confident about this pick lol.


I'm not bashing Fultz. He's a Sixer now so I'm not rooting for him to fail so I can be right. I want him to succeed and be great. I'm just giving my opinion and I don't think it's unreasonable. I just hope the 90% of the people who say Fultz is clearly the best prospect and will be great are correct. BC seems to draft well so I trust him.

It's not unreasonable, no one knows for sure about these guys and you could be right. Just seems kind of nitpicky.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 29,455
And1: 10,477
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1329 » by the_process » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:04 am

LongLiveHinkie wrote:
the_process wrote:
LongLiveHinkie wrote:It can't be done. Picks can't be traded twice. It can only be traded after the lottery next season, should it not convey to Boston.


It can be traded as long as the part of the pick that could possibly be conveyed to Boston is protected.


I believe it's against NBA rules to trade any pick that has already been traded even if the protections fit in another deal.


You still control the part of the pick you haven't traded. Which means you can trade it. Hinkie did it with a 2nd a few years ago. He traded it top 55 protected, for Royce White?, and then traded the same pick 31-50 and 56-60 protected for Tony Wroten?. Those names might be wrong, but I am certain the concept is correct and was executed. I will go look on the CBA FAQ for confirmation.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,946
And1: 16,328
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1330 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:12 am

the_process wrote:
LongLiveHinkie wrote:
the_process wrote:
It can be traded as long as the part of the pick that could possibly be conveyed to Boston is protected.


I believe it's against NBA rules to trade any pick that has already been traded even if the protections fit in another deal.


You still control the part of the pick you haven't traded. Which means you can trade it. Hinkie did it with a 2nd a few years ago. He traded it top 55 protected, for Royce White?, and then traded the same pick 31-50 and 56-60 protected for Tony Wroten?. Those names might be wrong, but I am certain the concept is correct and was executed. I will go look on the CBA FAQ for confirmation.

I'm not sure if this is the same thing but in the immortal Jason Thompson/Gerald Henderson Warriors Trade the Sixers got the right to swap the Warriors pick with either the Heat or Thunder picks, both of which were protected that year.
spikeslovechild
RealGM
Posts: 12,843
And1: 6,198
Joined: Dec 16, 2013
Location: Right here waiting for you

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1331 » by spikeslovechild » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:21 am

Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
LongLiveHinkie wrote:
I believe it's against NBA rules to trade any pick that has already been traded even if the protections fit in another deal.


You still control the part of the pick you haven't traded. Which means you can trade it. Hinkie did it with a 2nd a few years ago. He traded it top 55 protected, for Royce White?, and then traded the same pick 31-50 and 56-60 protected for Tony Wroten?. Those names might be wrong, but I am certain the concept is correct and was executed. I will go look on the CBA FAQ for confirmation.

I'm not sure if this is the same thing but in the immortal Jason Thompson/Gerald Henderson Warriors Trade the Sixers got the right to swap the Warriors pick with either the Heat or Thunder picks, both of which were protected that year.


Divac put pick protection on that immortal Sac trade as well. We shared rights with CHI
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,946
And1: 16,328
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1332 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:23 am

Gerald Wallace* not Henderson.
Ericb5
RealGM
Posts: 10,303
And1: 3,377
Joined: Jan 08, 2014
       

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1333 » by Ericb5 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:26 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:I'm just very nervous about Fultz. I'm in a wait and see mode with him. If he doesn't impress in Summer League that will make me even more nervous. I just don't see why so many think he's head and shoulders better than the rest of the class. I just don't see it. I don't. I don't think he's the best prospect. I just want to be so wrong on him. His gait is weird. He moves a little funny. He doesn't have quick burst or acceleration. The one thing I do love about him is his dedication. He seems very dedicated to improving his game. To go from not being a highly touted recruit as a sophomore in High School to being the top pick in the draft shows hard work.

He has a calm demeanor. I guess that can be viewed as good or bad. On the court I don't see that dog in him like I do with a guy like Josh Jackson. I hope he has a winning mentality on the court and can take over games. Oh another thing I like is his rapid growth from going from 5'9 to 6'4. Hopefully he grows another 2 inches. I just want him to be great.


I don't think that he is the best prospect either, but he doesn't have to be for the move to make sense. Since he does have legitimate star upside, as long as he gets there he was worth it.

He isn't can't miss, and I don't see superstar upside with him, but he could definitely be someone like Lilard, who is an allstar. He doesn't have to be Harden.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,330
And1: 20,926
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1334 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:26 am

spikeslovechild wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
You still control the part of the pick you haven't traded. Which means you can trade it. Hinkie did it with a 2nd a few years ago. He traded it top 55 protected, for Royce White?, and then traded the same pick 31-50 and 56-60 protected for Tony Wroten?. Those names might be wrong, but I am certain the concept is correct and was executed. I will go look on the CBA FAQ for confirmation.

I'm not sure if this is the same thing but in the immortal Jason Thompson/Gerald Henderson Warriors Trade the Sixers got the right to swap the Warriors pick with either the Heat or Thunder picks, both of which were protected that year.


Divac put pick protection on that immortal Sac trade as well. We shared rights with CHI


He did not. He traded: "Unprotected swap rights on the remaining pick rights Sac has"

He put a pick swap on a pick that was already protected, but he didn't add any protection.

So far the NBA has not allowed pick swaps to have any protection, you can do a pick swap on a full pick, or on a protected pick that already exists as such. But you cannot add a new layer of protection with a pick swap.
76thBearCub
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,836
And1: 2,952
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
     

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1335 » by 76thBearCub » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:29 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:I'm so glad it wasn't Josh Jackson. His shot scares me so much.

I talked myself into Monk. I was open to Tatum. I was Isaac curious. But watching the rims clank for 4 more years was going to hurt.


I'm a hack of a draft analyzer but Jackson seemed to have a ton of red flags. I was pretty worried about his fit. And he had other big issues. I was not excited at all about getting him.

Shooting of course.

He is older, yet seems to act immature.

His wingspan doesn't stack up with elite wing defenders.


Fultz looks pretty freaking awesome to me.
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,330
And1: 20,926
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1336 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:35 am

76thBearCub wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:I'm so glad it wasn't Josh Jackson. His shot scares me so much.

I talked myself into Monk. I was open to Tatum. I was Isaac curious. But watching the rims clank for 4 more years was going to hurt.


I'm a hack of a draft analyzer but Jackson seemed to have a ton of red flags. I was pretty worried about his fit. And he had other big issues. I was not excited at all about getting him.

Shooting of course.

He is older, yet seems to act immature.

His wingspan doesn't stack up with elite wing defenders.


Fultz looks pretty freaking awesome to me.


Those scared me too. The immaturity I gave a pass on, but the age makes his production less impressive and the physical tools being worse than Tatum (and Isaac) just added to the concerns.

Yeah, I'm thrilled to not pick Josh. And he may turn out amazing. But boy did he scare me.
Ericb5
RealGM
Posts: 10,303
And1: 3,377
Joined: Jan 08, 2014
       

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1337 » by Ericb5 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:35 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:I'm not sure if this is the same thing but in the immortal Jason Thompson/Gerald Henderson Warriors Trade the Sixers got the right to swap the Warriors pick with either the Heat or Thunder picks, both of which were protected that year.


Divac put pick protection on that immortal Sac trade as well. We shared rights with CHI


He did not. He traded: "Unprotected swap rights on the remaining pick rights Sac has"

He put a pick swap on a pick that was already protected, but he didn't add any protection.

So far the NBA has not allowed pick swaps to have any protection, you can do a pick swap on a full pick, or on a protected pick that already exists as such. But you cannot add a new layer of protection with a pick swap.


I don't know what the rule is, but the NBA should let you do whatever you want as long as you don't violate the Stepien rule.

Maybe they should put a smaller outward limit on how far in advance you could trade a pick to try to prevent Billy King from destroying a franchise, but if you are allowed to trade the pick you should be able to put whatever protections on it you would like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,330
And1: 20,926
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1338 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:36 am

Ericb5 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:
Divac put pick protection on that immortal Sac trade as well. We shared rights with CHI


He did not. He traded: "Unprotected swap rights on the remaining pick rights Sac has"

He put a pick swap on a pick that was already protected, but he didn't add any protection.

So far the NBA has not allowed pick swaps to have any protection, you can do a pick swap on a full pick, or on a protected pick that already exists as such. But you cannot add a new layer of protection with a pick swap.


I don't know what the rule is, but the NBA should let you do whatever you want as long as you don't violate the Stepien rule.

Maybe they should put a smaller outward limit on how far in advance you could trade a pick to try to prevent Billy King from destroying a franchise, but if you are allowed to trade the pick you should be able to put whatever protections on it you would like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't disagree on pick swaps. Being able to do a lotto protected swap would make a ton of sense. I do think the top 55 protected 2nd versus top 59 protected is a fine rule.
User avatar
kingofthecourt67
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,914
And1: 3,549
Joined: May 03, 2004
   

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1339 » by kingofthecourt67 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:18 am

I wanted no part of JJ or Ball to begin with. I would have been pretty happy if we traded back to 5 and got Monk. Very ecstatic to welcome Fultz at the price we paid.
Simmons25
Analyst
Posts: 3,166
And1: 2,235
Joined: Sep 27, 2016

Re: Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz 

Post#1340 » by Simmons25 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:39 am

yourewrong wrote:
Ericb5 wrote:
yourewrong wrote:how? Simmons and Fultz both need the ball to thrive and Embiid had a 36% usg rate as a rookie. There's only one basketball.


First off, Embiid's usage rate was higher than normal due to the minutes restriction. He probably will never have that usage rate again in his career.

Fultz and Simmons fit perfectly precisely because Fultz DOESN'T need the ball in his hands to be effective. He clearly can shoot and play off the ball. That's the beauty of this.

In addition, when the game is on the line, and we really needs someone to get their own shot, he can do that better than Simmons can. Like Irving in Cleveland, you sometimes need to give the ball to someone and get out of the way, and he will get the ball a lot in those situations.

Both Simmons and Fultz will be behind Embiid in priority on both offense and defense too. Even though Simmons will have the ball in his hands more than Fultz, the primary goal will be getting Embiid the ball, when in the half court, and the other guys will be playing off of him.

Fultz is very capable of moving without the ball, and spacing the court, and Simmons is going to be one of the best passers in the league, and will get him the ball in situations where he can be effective.

The mix of the three of them together is really the primary selling point of this deal in my mind.

I thought that Fultz was the 3rd best prospect in the draft, but there is no doubt that he fits Simmons and Embiid perfectly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Even if Fultz can play of the ball (which is questionable considering he's an iffy set shooter at best), it's clearly not making use of his skillset. Take Ball, who is in another league entirely as an off ball player if Ben is truly the guy.


Yeah I guess Simmons and Fultz will never work out... in much the same way that Lebron and Kyrie don't. :lol:

Don't worry... I think with Simmons being more Magic Johnson with his game than say someone who wants needs the ball to score like Durant.... there will be plenty of ball to go around.

Embiid is also going to be on the end of a lot more easy dunks when you have a ball handler like Simmons that is capable of getting to the basket at will and throwing passes others can't even see. With McConnell last season opponents didn't value his outside shot but more importantly knew he couldn't score inside either so just let him dribble it around. They won't be able to let Simmons do the same and get so close to the basket.

As for Fultz being an iffy set shooter... wha :o

Return to Philadelphia 76ers