John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III

[tontoz]

This season was Wall's worst for DRPM, maybe because he came into camp out of shape due to his knee surgeries.

[NatP4]

Any list that has Jose Calderon ranked higher defensively than JWall is suspect. There are probably 15-20 players ahead of Wall on this list who aren't better defenders than him.

I believe it must be that weird game where the Hawks went on that crazy run in the 2nd quarter when Calderon was in the game.

Anyways, I think Wall's defense instantly improves once/if the Wizards get a quality backup point guard, and Wall plays less so that he can play both ends of the floor. Although it seems like a long shot this offseason.

You think these stats actually prove who is the better defender? No - the list is flawed because its tough to prove who is a better defender- Ill take JW over damn near any of the guards in the league on defense. Wall would be significantly better on defense if he had a center that is a rim protector AND and the wiz had a back up point that can play legitimate minutes----plus if he didn't have to carry the offense sooooo much- It's about stamina

Do you actually read what you post? This is pathetic lol

[CobraCommander]

This season was Wall's worst for DRPM, maybe because he came into camp out of shape due to his knee surgeries.

Agreed - lets see...what happens when he is healthy for the summer.

[NatP4]

This season was Wall's worst for DRPM, maybe because he came into camp out of shape due to his knee surgeries.

Agreed - lets see...what happens when he is healthy for the summer.

But this last year was supposed to be "he's finally healthy"

But wait he was top 15 in DRPM at the trade deadline, the dip came from after the deadline through playoffs. Dropped from 15th to 58th. Had nothing to do with being in shape, maybe fatigue(not really) but that's a better excuse I guess.

Why can't we just admit it, we brought in a "players coach" whatever that means, that doesn't hold Wall accountable, he was surrounded by non leaders, no vets at all, no one to call him out like nene and Ariza and Pierce did. Brooks tried to call him out throughout the season for his defense and it just kept getting worse.

Lack of effort or fatigue, pick one. Wasn't not being in shape early in the year.

We're quick to blame Gortat for the teams defensive issues though

[NatP4]

Walls dip in effort+the switch to playing Jennings+Bojan+Smith at PF instead of small ball led to a total defensive collapse, yet when the offseason rolls around, all of the blame has been put on Ernie???

I'll never understand it

[CobraCommander]

This season was Wall's worst for DRPM, maybe because he came into camp out of shape due to his knee surgeries.

Agreed - lets see...what happens when he is healthy for the summer.

But this last year was supposed to be "he's finally healthy"

But wait he was top 15 in DRPM at the trade deadline, the dip came from after the deadline through playoffs. Dropped from 15th to 58th. Had nothing to do with being in shape, maybe fatigue(not really) but that's a better excuse I guess.

Why can't we just admit it, we brought in a "players coach" whatever that means, that doesn't hold Wall accountable, he was surrounded by non leaders, no vets at all, no one to call him out like nene and Ariza and Pierce did. Brooks tried to call him out throughout the season for his defense and it just kept getting worse.

Lack of effort or fatigue, pick one. Wasn't not being in shape early in the year.

We're quick to blame Gortat for the teams defensive issues though

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wizards-insider/wp/2016/05/05/john-wall-has-surgery-on-both-knees-wizards-say-hell-be-ready-for-start-of-next-season/?utm_term=.3ad22a28e6e8

I dont know about you but I have had knee surgery on both knees years apart (MCL) and i was told i could walk immediately after both but I couldn't run. Just a couple weeks of inactivity and my body fat % went up and it took me a long time to get to myself...John had much more invasive surgery on both knees and had longer off his feet....and needed to come back to play basketball at the highest level... and carry his team offensively (led it in assist and points..around 23 and 11...or something). I think he did alright considering the situation...but thats just me. TWO things I can assure you... 1. You dont agree because you troll hard consistently and 2. I will get PMs from damn near everyone on the board asking me why do i waste my time responding to you....

[payitforward]

I disagree with Nat frequently -- as I do with you, for that matter. & you and others disagree with me.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't make Nat a troll, Cobra. Any more than you disagreeing with me makes you a troll.

I don't know about all those people who PM you, but just speaking for myself I'd appreciate you not calling people names, & I'd appreciate if you understood that there are more legit. points of view than just yours.

Not interested in a flame with you, man. We are all Wizards fans here. You don't even have to respond if you don't want to. But at least do me the favor, please, of trying to understand where I'm coming from. Thanks.

[montestewart]

I disagree with Nat frequently -- as I do with you, for that matter. & you and others disagree with me.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't make Nat a troll, Cobra. Any more than you disagreeing with me makes you a troll.

I don't know about all those people who PM you, but just speaking for myself I'd appreciate you not calling people names, & I'd appreciate if you understood that there are more legit. points of view than just yours.

Not interested in a flame with you, man. We are all Wizards fans here. You don't even have to respond if you don't want to. But at least do me the favor, please, of trying to understand where I'm coming from. Thanks.

It's hard to talk sports (or politics, for that matter) without some strenuously articulated disagreements. Passions inflamed, voices raised (you know, those internet voices), shots fired, etc. Then you have to deal with know-it-alls, condescension, passive aggression, sarcasm, etc. Name calling is a good line to try very hard not to cross, for the good of the conversation.

I'm not one to advocate putting a poster on ignore (I've never done it), but if a poster aggravates you so much that you are going to call them names, consider instead just putting them on ignore. Or simply employ a time honored tactic for moving past a conversational impasse: don't respond at all. There's no rule that says you have to respond to something you disagree with.

Nat so frequently cites negative aspects of Wall's game that sometimes it's hard to recall if he posts about anything else (he does), but the things about Wall he criticizes are like things others have criticized in the past: the turnovers, the long 3s early in the clock, the inconsistency on defense, hero ball, etc. Wall is the best Wizard in years, but he could (at least in theory) improve in these areas. Nat is not unlike Jonathan Joseph, a former poster who was a pretty relentless Wall critic, but was apparently a Wizards fan who just had a contrary view.

Some of the turbulence over Nat's Wall posts in this thread may be because it's an "Appreciation" thread, but the reality is that you have to go pretty far back to find another thread devoted to Wall's game, so where should the critiques go? Maybe someone so motivated will dig up one of the old Wall threads that had more room for discussing negatives.

[CobraCommander]

I disagree with Nat frequently -- as I do with you, for that matter. & you and others disagree with me.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't make Nat a troll, Cobra. Any more than you disagreeing with me makes you a troll.

I don't know about all those people who PM you, but just speaking for myself I'd appreciate you not calling people names, & I'd appreciate if you understood that there are more legit. points of view than just yours.

Not interested in a flame with you, man. We are all Wizards fans here. You don't even have to respond if you don't want to. But at least do me the favor, please, of trying to understand where I'm coming from. Thanks.

It's hard to talk sports (or politics, for that matter) without some strenuously articulated disagreements. Passions inflamed, voices raised (you know, those internet voices), shots fired, etc. Then you have to deal with know-it-alls, condescension, passive aggression, sarcasm, etc. Name calling is a good line to try very hard not to cross, for the good of the conversation.

I'm not one to advocate putting a poster on ignore (I've never done it), but if a poster aggravates you so much that you are going to call them names, consider instead just putting them on ignore. Or simply employ a time honored tactic for moving past a conversational impasse: don't respond at all. There's no rule that says you have to respond to something you disagree with.

Nat so frequently cites negative aspects of Wall's game that sometimes it's hard to recall if he posts about anything else (he does), but the things about Wall he criticizes are like things others have criticized in the past: the turnovers, the long 3s early in the clock, the inconsistency on defense, hero ball, etc. Wall is the best Wizard in years, but he could (at least in theory) improve in these areas. Nat is not unlike Jonathan Joseph, a former poster who was a pretty relentless Wall critic, but was apparently a Wizards fan who just had a contrary view.

Some of the turbulence over Nat's Wall posts in this thread may be because it's an "Appreciation" thread, but the reality is that you have to go pretty far back to find another thread devoted to Wall's game, so where should the critiques go? Maybe someone so motivated will dig up one of the old Wall threads that had more room for discussing negatives.

For simplicity's sake, i am calling it like I see it and Nat often plays the role of troll. If you review our back and forth over the year- you will notice that we go back and forth...and often and1 each other out of good fun. You will also see that a lot of people have him on ignore (and I'm sure I'm on ignore too by some of the same people because I am over the top pro wall). I actually have troll friends "off board" and man they can keep a conversation going but they are trolls. But Nat is an obvious "troll" and its not even an attack on his character. Nat is our boards Skip Bayless and while its often annoying its also entertaining to see how far he is willing to take his seemingly over the top "Wall Hate". A troll move is to come to the Wall Appreciation thread and call out his flaws and tell us where he ranks next to obviously inferior players. During games thread WE ALL GO after Wall when he does the quick 3, the long two, the ohlay defense, wtf turn over jump passing to the corner after getting inches from the rim (DUNK THE BALL WALL!!!)...

This isn't the tread to go at Wall consistently tho...its actually his appreciation thread and honestly NO ONE thought wall would be 23 and 11 this year after last year...I know I didn't...so why not appreciate it.

So I am aware that Wall isn't better than Jordan but I am positive about the trajectory of his career and happy as hell that he is our point guard.

Maybe Nat should start a Wall sucks thread...which would be hillarious- especially post game when we lose or we win but Wall shoots poorly.

[payitforward]

I see, so you are saying that Nat is the anti-Wall troll, & you are the pro-Wall troll.

That to the degree that he's a troll, so are you -- just in a different direction.

Do I have that right?

[80sballboy]

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.

This sense of both the noun and the verb "troll" is associated with Internet discourse, but also has been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment. For example, the mass media have used "troll" to mean "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[4][5] In addition, depictions of trolling have been included in popular fictional works, such as the HBO television program The Newsroom, in which a main character encounters harassing persons online and tries to infiltrate their circles by posting negative sexual comments.

[montestewart]

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.

This sense of both the noun and the verb "troll" is associated with Internet discourse, but also has been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment. For example, the mass media have used "troll" to mean "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[4][5] In addition, depictions of trolling have been included in popular fictional works, such as the HBO television program The Newsroom, in which a main character encounters harassing persons online and tries to infiltrate their circles by posting negative sexual comments.

Parts of that definition could apply to half the people on this board. Maybe we need a more refined definition of troll

My name's not troll, my name's T-Roll!
Callin out suck @$$ is my goal!
Where's the good team Ernie stole?
Twisted roster with no soul,
A leaky raft crashed on a shoal,
Splashing around in a deep dark hole,
Years of losing takes its toll,
You don't like it, go smoke a bowl!

[NatP4]

I literally posted walls defensive advanced stats. This is a whole new level of fanboyism.

[NatP4]

I disagree with Nat frequently -- as I do with you, for that matter. & you and others disagree with me.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't make Nat a troll, Cobra. Any more than you disagreeing with me makes you a troll.

I don't know about all those people who PM you, but just speaking for myself I'd appreciate you not calling people names, & I'd appreciate if you understood that there are more legit. points of view than just yours.

Not interested in a flame with you, man. We are all Wizards fans here. You don't even have to respond if you don't want to. But at least do me the favor, please, of trying to understand where I'm coming from. Thanks.

It's hard to talk sports (or politics, for that matter) without some strenuously articulated disagreements. Passions inflamed, voices raised (you know, those internet voices), shots fired, etc. Then you have to deal with know-it-alls, condescension, passive aggression, sarcasm, etc. Name calling is a good line to try very hard not to cross, for the good of the conversation.

I'm not one to advocate putting a poster on ignore (I've never done it), but if a poster aggravates you so much that you are going to call them names, consider instead just putting them on ignore. Or simply employ a time honored tactic for moving past a conversational impasse: don't respond at all. There's no rule that says you have to respond to something you disagree with.

Nat so frequently cites negative aspects of Wall's game that sometimes it's hard to recall if he posts about anything else (he does), but the things about Wall he criticizes are like things others have criticized in the past: the turnovers, the long 3s early in the clock, the inconsistency on defense, hero ball, etc. Wall is the best Wizard in years, but he could (at least in theory) improve in these areas. Nat is not unlike Jonathan Joseph, a former poster who was a pretty relentless Wall critic, but was apparently a Wizards fan who just had a contrary view.

Some of the turbulence over Nat's Wall posts in this thread may be because it's an "Appreciation" thread, but the reality is that you have to go pretty far back to find another thread devoted to Wall's game, so where should the critiques go? Maybe someone so motivated will dig up one of the old Wall threads that had more room for discussing negatives.

For simplicity's sake, i am calling it like I see it and Nat often plays the role of troll. If you review our back and forth over the year- you will notice that we go back and forth...and often and1 each other out of good fun. You will also see that a lot of people have him on ignore (and I'm sure I'm on ignore too by some of the same people because I am over the top pro wall). I actually have troll friends "off board" and man they can keep a conversation going but they are trolls. But Nat is an obvious "troll" and its not even an attack on his character. Nat is our boards Skip Bayless and while its often annoying its also entertaining to see how far he is willing to take his seemingly over the top "Wall Hate". A troll move is to come to the Wall Appreciation thread and call out his flaws and tell us where he ranks next to obviously inferior players. During games thread WE ALL GO after Wall when he does the quick 3, the long two, the ohlay defense, wtf turn over jump passing to the corner after getting inches from the rim (DUNK THE BALL WALL!!!)...

This isn't the tread to go at Wall consistently tho...its actually his appreciation thread and honestly NO ONE thought wall would be 23 and 11 this year after last year...I know I didn't...so why not appreciate it.

So I am aware that Wall isn't better than Jordan but I am positive about the trajectory of his career and happy as hell that he is our point guard.

Maybe Nat should start a Wall sucks thread...which would be hillarious- especially post game when we lose or we win but Wall shoots poorly.

Maybe you should go join a John Wall fan board instead of a wizards fan board. Pointing out actual statistics isn't trolling. You call yourself "over the top pro wall" in this very post.

Let's reenact one of our usual game thread encounters:

Me: bad shot by wall

You: TROLL TROLL TROLL YOU SOUND LIKE COLLIN COWHERD ERRRRR Wall is clearly fatigued from his knee surgery and Ernie not signing Steph curry to be his backup wall is pissed at Gortat for not blocking everything

*posts unfunny troll meme*

Repeat every 5 minutes

[ClutchDJ]

Nat, it shouldn't be rocket science as to why Cobra & many others call you a "anti-Wall" troll. Seriously, what's the point of slamming Wall in a "John Wall appreciation" thread? It's called "appreciation" not "condemnation".

You live to slander Wall & we get it, it's your gimmick. What I don't get is that you never give Beal nor Otto the same criticism when they're in the slump. Remember the Atlanta series this year where Wall was playing head & shoulders above everyone else on either team & both Beal & Otto were struggling for most of the series? It was always excuses for them coming from you, but when Wall made a minor mistake, you brung the pitchfork out. This also happened during the regular season, too. That just tells me & everyone else that you can't stand the guy.

Now, I'm ready for your typical "Hahah Wall fanboys can't take the heat lol I say something about Wall & everyone gets mad ha" response.

[CobraCommander]

I see, so you are saying that Nat is the anti-Wall troll, & you are the pro-Wall troll.

That to the degree that he's a troll, so are you -- just in a different direction.

Do I have that right?

Payitforward...there is no such thing as a Pro-anything-Troll. NatP4 is right about me...I'm a fanboy and I embrace that. I love the Wiz...I'm a fan. JWall is the Wiz's best player and I am a fan of Wall and the Wiz. I am unapologetic about being a fan of Wall and the Wiz. I go at NatP4 here (and damn near any anti-wiz or anti-wall poster on the general board) because thats what fans do to support thier team. I am NOT objective when it comes to my boys, my family or my teams...not really.

If I were a troll I would be going to the Celtics board trashing Isiah Thomas on the IT fan thread. I would be on the Celtics board annoying the Celtics fans by bringing up ITs shortcomings (notice the pun). The Celtics fans would rightfully get tired of me, call me a troll and ask me to leave/Block me or ban me. If you went to a Celtics Bar in boston wearing wizards gear talking about IT the way some Wiz fans come to our board talking about our best players they would get 'dealt' wit.

I love the wiz so I'm not objective...especially on the JW

Spoiler:

appreciation

thread.

During the game threads I think most of us of the posters are a tab bit more objective- (even NatP4)because a good shot is a good shot and a bad play is a bad play.

[CobraCommander]

Nat, it shouldn't be rocket science as to why Cobra & many others call you a "anti-Wall" troll. Seriously, what's the point of slamming Wall in a "John Wall appreciation" thread? It's called "appreciation" not "condemnation".

You live to slander Wall & we get it, it's your gimmick. What I don't get is that you never give Beal nor Otto the same criticism when they're in the slump. Remember the Atlanta series this year where Wall was playing head & shoulders above everyone else on either team & both Beal & Otto were struggling for most of the series? It was always excuses for them coming from you, but when Wall made a minor mistake, you brung the pitchfork out. This also happened during the regular season, too. That just tells me & everyone else that you can't stand the guy.

Now, I'm ready for your typical "Hahah Wall fanboys can't take the heat lol I say something about Wall & everyone gets mad ha" response.

Yeah..what he said...

[CobraCommander]

It's hard to talk sports (or politics, for that matter) without some strenuously articulated disagreements. Passions inflamed, voices raised (you know, those internet voices), shots fired, etc. Then you have to deal with know-it-alls, condescension, passive aggression, sarcasm, etc. Name calling is a good line to try very hard not to cross, for the good of the conversation.

I'm not one to advocate putting a poster on ignore (I've never done it), but if a poster aggravates you so much that you are going to call them names, consider instead just putting them on ignore. Or simply employ a time honored tactic for moving past a conversational impasse: don't respond at all. There's no rule that says you have to respond to something you disagree with.

Nat so frequently cites negative aspects of Wall's game that sometimes it's hard to recall if he posts about anything else (he does), but the things about Wall he criticizes are like things others have criticized in the past: the turnovers, the long 3s early in the clock, the inconsistency on defense, hero ball, etc. Wall is the best Wizard in years, but he could (at least in theory) improve in these areas. Nat is not unlike Jonathan Joseph, a former poster who was a pretty relentless Wall critic, but was apparently a Wizards fan who just had a contrary view.

Some of the turbulence over Nat's Wall posts in this thread may be because it's an "Appreciation" thread, but the reality is that you have to go pretty far back to find another thread devoted to Wall's game, so where should the critiques go? Maybe someone so motivated will dig up one of the old Wall threads that had more room for discussing negatives.

For simplicity's sake, i am calling it like I see it and Nat often plays the role of troll. If you review our back and forth over the year- you will notice that we go back and forth...and often and1 each other out of good fun. You will also see that a lot of people have him on ignore (and I'm sure I'm on ignore too by some of the same people because I am over the top pro wall). I actually have troll friends "off board" and man they can keep a conversation going but they are trolls. But Nat is an obvious "troll" and its not even an attack on his character. Nat is our boards Skip Bayless and while its often annoying its also entertaining to see how far he is willing to take his seemingly over the top "Wall Hate". A troll move is to come to the Wall Appreciation thread and call out his flaws and tell us where he ranks next to obviously inferior players. During games thread WE ALL GO after Wall when he does the quick 3, the long two, the ohlay defense, wtf turn over jump passing to the corner after getting inches from the rim (DUNK THE BALL WALL!!!)...

This isn't the tread to go at Wall consistently tho...its actually his appreciation thread and honestly NO ONE thought wall would be 23 and 11 this year after last year...I know I didn't...so why not appreciate it.

So I am aware that Wall isn't better than Jordan but I am positive about the trajectory of his career and happy as hell that he is our point guard.

Maybe Nat should start a Wall sucks thread...which would be hillarious- especially post game when we lose or we win but Wall shoots poorly.

Maybe you should go join a John Wall fan board instead of a wizards fan board. Pointing out actual statistics isn't trolling. You call yourself "over the top pro wall" in this very post.

Let's reenact one of our usual game thread encounters:

Me: bad shot by wall

You: TROLL TROLL TROLL YOU SOUND LIKE COLLIN COWHERD ERRRRR Wall is clearly fatigued from his knee surgery and Ernie not signing Steph curry to be his backup wall is pissed at Gortat for not blocking everything

*posts unfunny troll meme*

Repeat every 5 minutes

You got me...you are not a troll at all..I'm just a fanboy..which annoys the hell out of you.

Wall avg 23 and 11 ...but those stats are not relevant to you at all...I'm sure the Wiz would be much better off if the wiz were starting Sato

(It sucks that we dont have a draft pick so all we have are internal "family fights" to engage in with no Wiz relevant basketball to discuss)

[CobraCommander]

I literally posted walls defensive advanced stats. This is a whole new level of fanboyism.

Give me one thing you appreiciate about Wall?

[80sballboy]

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