2017 Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion

[Zelaznyrules]

I dont get the debate? Shouldn't the goal always be to win more games?

McDo has always said he will try to acquire top players wanting a change of scenery, players who become available for whatever reasons. He tried with LMA, halfway threw his hat into the Lebron circle.... who knows what other attempts he's made.

I dont think he has shelved his original outline for contention. If anything, he has set himself up to take another stab at it. There are some top players who very well could be moving this yr. Griffin, Butler, Milsap, Paul, George, Hayward, Lowery, ... put two here and we are right in the mix with the tank is permanently parked. Cant see Ryan putting his youther movement blinders on and being satisfied with another sub 500 season. His job could be on the line.

There should be much more to this off season than a #4 pick

Well, no, it shouldn't be. The goal for the team should be about winning each time they take the court but from a front office perspective the goal should be about building towards championship contention. You can't really build a championship winner (well, almost never), all you can really hope to do is build a team that has a chance to compete at that level. Giving away assets now to try and be competitive before our young gang matures is shortsighted IMO. Chriss is probably 6 years away from being at his peak, Booker is probably 3 to 4 years away, Bender is probably 6 or 7 years away, Warren is probably 2 years away, Ulis is probably 3 years away and that needs to be considered in our timeline.

Ryan is looking for the opportunity to acquire a young player, Hayward at 27 and Blake at 28 are past our range. Even if we could package all of our young players, the Miami picks and a couple of our own in order to add Griffin, Hayward and Butler - that just dead ends us. It's the kind of thing the front office was looking to do when Sarver was having to pinch pennies but that's no longer necessary. We just need to keep on with what we're doing unless a young Gobert type player becomes available, then we can jump.

[LukasBMW]

Just for **** and giggles:

-We get George for Knight + 2018 Miami first + 2 second round picks

-We let Alex walk.

-We sign Milsap

-We KEEP #4

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa
PG13/TJ/#4
Milsap/Bender
Tyson/Chriss

Is that the perfect Win now + mentor the youth combo?

[SideSwipe]

The question is does PG-13 prefer LA or winning. If he prefers winning, PHX is in a better situation than LA is, because we can pull in FAs(cap situation) Then the question flips to Grif. If PHX pulled in George, does Griffin come? Bled/Book/George/Griffin/Chandler.

[SideSwipe]

That was the plan but the plan has changed. And Paul George made it clear 4 months ago that he was only interested in LA or Indiana so even if Ryan wanted to return to that approach, this would be the wrong way to do it. The new TV deal has removed the financial impetus to compete as soon as possible, now they are trying to build more to be in the championship conversation than simply making the postseason and hoping for luck along the way. Both Sarver and Ryan have acknowledged their intention to build through player development and Ryan has stated that he'd only move assets for a player that fits our age group (something like 25 tops IIRC).

Check your facts on this. There have been many reports stating that Ryan is still going to be opportunistic with the trade season and FA group. Even if the target isn't PG to PHX, other pieces will move that PHX can capitalize on. Ryan is in the last year of his deal and GM's are mostly measured in on-court success. He wants to win, and will take steps to do so.

Bottoming out is not a destination, its a plea of desperation when no other plan is present. There are no guarantees.

I know what you're talking about, that's why I mentioned the 25 year old player. He's no longer looking for a quick fix but he is interested in a deal that brings in a player that fits with the age group of our younger guys. I don't recall exactly what he said but I'm pretty sure it amounted to 25/26 at the oldest.

I actually don't think the quote stated the age, there was just a presumtpion on the board. Many jumped on Porzingis as o e option, but George, Griffin, Butler are all entering "prime" right along with Bledsoe. It very possible the right situation doesn't materealize, and we move forward as is, but you can bet McD is banging on the phones right now chasing every lead to see if he can put a competitive team together for a decent cost.

[BobbieL]

The question is does PG-13 prefer LA or winning. If he prefers winning, PHX is in a better situation than LA is, because we can pull in FAs(cap situation) Then the question flips to Grif. If PHX pulled in George, does Griffin come? Bled/Book/George/Griffin/Chandler.

If George wants to win - he pushes the trade to the Cavs for Kevin Love.

He wants to play for the Lakers but if the Lakers still have Mozgov and Deng - pretty hard with the cap I do believe. But they can get their by renouncing rights to certain players

The Suns could benefit a trade if they took a contract like Mozgov or Deng - but it would cost the number 2 pick.

[bwgood77]

We will not be trading for Paul George. McD is smarter than that. If George wants winning more he will go to a team like Boston, not Phx. But even knowing he COULD go to Boston and they want him, he still says he is going to LA.

[Zelaznyrules]

Check your facts on this. There have been many reports stating that Ryan is still going to be opportunistic with the trade season and FA group. Even if the target isn't PG to PHX, other pieces will move that PHX can capitalize on. Ryan is in the last year of his deal and GM's are mostly measured in on-court success. He wants to win, and will take steps to do so.

Bottoming out is not a destination, its a plea of desperation when no other plan is present. There are no guarantees.

I know what you're talking about, that's why I mentioned the 25 year old player. He's no longer looking for a quick fix but he is interested in a deal that brings in a player that fits with the age group of our younger guys. I don't recall exactly what he said but I'm pretty sure it amounted to 25/26 at the oldest.

I actually don't think the quote stated the age, there was just a presumtpion on the board. Many jumped on Porzingis as o e option, but George, Griffin, Butler are all entering "prime" right along with Bledsoe. It very possible the right situation doesn't materealize, and we move forward as is, but you can bet McD is banging on the phones right now chasing every lead to see if he can put a competitive team together for a decent cost.

I honestly don't remember but I don't think it was just a presumption. He said "young" in several interviews and I'm pretty sure he said something that did indicate 25 or 26 even if he didn't use the numbers.

[Frank Lee]

I dont get the debate? Shouldn't the goal always be to win more games?

McDo has always said he will try to acquire top players wanting a change of scenery, players who become available for whatever reasons. He tried with LMA, halfway threw his hat into the Lebron circle.... who knows what other attempts he's made.

I dont think he has shelved his original outline for contention. If anything, he has set himself up to take another stab at it. There are some top players who very well could be moving this yr. Griffin, Butler, Milsap, Paul, George, Hayward, Lowery, ... put two here and we are right in the mix with the tank is permanently parked. Cant see Ryan putting his youther movement blinders on and being satisfied with another sub 500 season. His job could be on the line.

There should be much more to this off season than a #4 pick

Well, no, it shouldn't be. The goal for the team should be about winning each time they take the court but from a front office perspective the goal should be about building towards championship contention. You can't really build a championship winner (well, almost never), all you can really hope to do is build a team that has a chance to compete at that level. Giving away assets now to try and be competitive before our young gang matures is shortsighted IMO. Chriss is probably 6 years away from being at his peak, Booker is probably 3 to 4 years away, Bender is probably 6 or 7 years away, Warren is probably 2 years away, Ulis is probably 3 years away and that needs to be considered in our timeline.

Ryan is looking for the opportunity to acquire a young player, Hayward at 27 and Blake at 28 are past our range. Even if we could package all of our young players, the Miami picks and a couple of our own in order to add Griffin, Hayward and Butler - that just dead ends us. It's the kind of thing the front office was looking to do when Sarver was having to pinch pennies but that's no longer necessary. We just need to keep on with what we're doing unless a young Gobert type player becomes available, then we can jump.

6 or 7... 3 to 4 ? thats crazy talk. There is way too much thought going into trying to align all these players up so they 'peak' at the same time. It just doesn't happen that way. Champ teams almost ALWAYS have a mix of old and young. And its not always about peak performance. Its about talent. Booker may not have reached his peak yet... but he is still better than half the SGs in the league.

You guys really overthink this 'build for a championship' strategy. This game is simple. Amass talent, get it to mesh with right coach and system, and win games. Get into the playoffs and play your nuts off. Good things happen then.

[BobbieL]

We will not be trading for Paul George. McD is smarter than that. If George wants winning more he will go to a team like Boston, not Phx. But even knowing he COULD go to Boston and they want him, he still says he is going to LA.

If the Lakers want Paul George - its going to cost them Russell or Randle and picks as the Cavs can get them Love - even for a one year deal. Or if the Pacers want to go young the Suns want Love - I can see the Bledsoe or Knight plus Warren plus Miami pick and Joenes type deal

[bwgood77]

We will not be trading for Paul George. McD is smarter than that. If George wants winning more he will go to a team like Boston, not Phx. But even knowing he COULD go to Boston and they want him, he still says he is going to LA.

If the Lakers want Paul George - its going to cost them Russell or Randle and picks as the Cavs can get them Love - even for a one year deal. Or if the Pacers want to go young the Suns want Love - I can see the Bledsoe or Knight plus Warren plus Miami pick and Joenes type deal

Clarkson is far better than Knight and gets paid far less. They could give them 28 plus future first plus Nance, Jr.

[bwgood77]

We will not be trading for Paul George. McD is smarter than that. If George wants winning more he will go to a team like Boston, not Phx. But even knowing he COULD go to Boston and they want him, he still says he is going to LA.

If the Lakers want Paul George - its going to cost them Russell or Randle and picks as the Cavs can get them Love - even for a one year deal. Or if the Pacers want to go young the Suns want Love - I can see the Bledsoe or Knight plus Warren plus Miami pick and Joenes type deal

I don't think Bledsoe, Warren and a Miami pick is worth one year of Paul George.

[BobbieL]

We will not be trading for Paul George. McD is smarter than that. If George wants winning more he will go to a team like Boston, not Phx. But even knowing he COULD go to Boston and they want him, he still says he is going to LA.

If the Lakers want Paul George - its going to cost them Russell or Randle and picks as the Cavs can get them Love - even for a one year deal. Or if the Pacers want to go young the Suns want Love - I can see the Bledsoe or Knight plus Warren plus Miami pick and Joenes type deal

I don't think Bledsoe, Warren and a Miami pick is worth one year of Paul George.

I agree about Nance, Clarkson and 28 being a pretty solid package compared to what the Suns can offer

But I am not talking George to the Suns. I was thinking if the Pacers didn't want Love and wanted to rebuild - is there a way for the Suns to get Love while giving Pacers the younger players.

Suns add Love, draft Isaac, you have Booker, Knight or Bledsoe - are you putting the pieces in places to be a playoff caliber team on the rise?

Tthe Pacers do not have much leverage so they have to figure out the best deal for them with GEorge - and yes, maybe it is Clarkson, Nance, the 28th pick and a future first. I would agree if the Lakers get involved - that would be the prime deal

If the Lakers do not get involved - Suns might have a play

[Zelaznyrules]

I dont get the debate? Shouldn't the goal always be to win more games?

McDo has always said he will try to acquire top players wanting a change of scenery, players who become available for whatever reasons. He tried with LMA, halfway threw his hat into the Lebron circle.... who knows what other attempts he's made.

I dont think he has shelved his original outline for contention. If anything, he has set himself up to take another stab at it. There are some top players who very well could be moving this yr. Griffin, Butler, Milsap, Paul, George, Hayward, Lowery, ... put two here and we are right in the mix with the tank is permanently parked. Cant see Ryan putting his youther movement blinders on and being satisfied with another sub 500 season. His job could be on the line.

There should be much more to this off season than a #4 pick

Well, no, it shouldn't be. The goal for the team should be about winning each time they take the court but from a front office perspective the goal should be about building towards championship contention. You can't really build a championship winner (well, almost never), all you can really hope to do is build a team that has a chance to compete at that level. Giving away assets now to try and be competitive before our young gang matures is shortsighted IMO. Chriss is probably 6 years away from being at his peak, Booker is probably 3 to 4 years away, Bender is probably 6 or 7 years away, Warren is probably 2 years away, Ulis is probably 3 years away and that needs to be considered in our timeline.

Ryan is looking for the opportunity to acquire a young player, Hayward at 27 and Blake at 28 are past our range. Even if we could package all of our young players, the Miami picks and a couple of our own in order to add Griffin, Hayward and Butler - that just dead ends us. It's the kind of thing the front office was looking to do when Sarver was having to pinch pennies but that's no longer necessary. We just need to keep on with what we're doing unless a young Gobert type player becomes available, then we can jump.

6 or 7... 3 to 4 ? thats crazy talk. There is way too much thought going into trying to align all these players up so they 'peak' at the same time. It just doesn't happen that way. Champ teams almost ALWAYS have a mix of old and young. And its not always about peak performance. Its about talent. Booker may not have reached his peak yet... but he is still better than half the SGs in the league.

You guys really overthink this 'build for a championship' strategy. This game is simple. Amass talent, get it to mesh with right coach and system, and win games. Get into the playoffs and play your nuts off. Good things happen then.

Look backwards (at other players) and tell me what you see? Most players hit their peak 5, 6, 7 years into their careers. That's not to say they don't have value in year 3 but look when the winning really starts for these guys. They don't all have to be fully mature and at their best but we're at the opposite end of "at their best" with most of these guys.

I don't think we're "overthinking" this at all, and let's face it, overthinking is just a nice way of saying "not thinking". We have a mix of fans here, some want us to tank Philly style for a few more years and some of us want to continue going forward by developing our youth. And then we have a very small group that wants to steal third base from the batters box. We all have the same destination in mind but I'd say the fans that want to skip the steps are the ones that aren't thinking this through.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If I'm Indi and Love is on the table for PG I take that in a heartbeat and I'd hang onto Love for the time being. Give him and Turner a half of a season look to see how they fit together and make Love a focal point of your offense. Who knows maybe he's a long term fit there but if not I would think his numbers would go back up because of increased usage and they would flip him at the trade deadline for more than they would get by involving a 3rd team this summer.

[SideSwipe]

The question is does PG-13 prefer LA or winning. If he prefers winning, PHX is in a better situation than LA is, because we can pull in FAs(cap situation) Then the question flips to Grif. If PHX pulled in George, does Griffin come? Bled/Book/George/Griffin/Chandler.

If George wants to win - he pushes the trade to the Cavs for Kevin Love.

He wants to play for the Lakers but if the Lakers still have Mozgov and Deng - pretty hard with the cap I do believe. But they can get their by renouncing rights to certain players

The Suns could benefit a trade if they took a contract like Mozgov or Deng - but it would cost the number 2 pick.

Maybe CLE, for sure, but PHX has its own charms as well. There is no guarantee CLE can or will clear the room for him. They would have to trade out Kyrie or Love for 1 yr of PG. If PG extended it would change the calculus some for both situations, but that would be a trickier fit in CLE since they don't have a quality big to replace Love, and don't have Deron coming back at the 1 to replace Kyrie if he left.

In PHX he would find an ascendant team with assets, cap space and good role players. It would certainly be a risk for both, but if PHX could make it happen, plus convince one more player, the beginnings would be in place for PHX to start competing.

[Zelaznyrules]

The question is does PG-13 prefer LA or winning. If he prefers winning, PHX is in a better situation than LA is, because we can pull in FAs(cap situation) Then the question flips to Grif. If PHX pulled in George, does Griffin come? Bled/Book/George/Griffin/Chandler.

I don't really see how that's a question. He said he wants to win but back at the trading deadline his agent (reportedly) said don't bother trading for him, he wants to win in Indiana and if he doesn't think that's going to happen, he wants to be a Laker. I think that's pretty clear.

[Zelaznyrules]

A Love for George deal is a godsend for Indiana and an incredibly dumb move for Cleveland IMO. There's no way the front office can "like" that deal, it has to be forced down their throats the same way Lebron's camp forced them to give a truckload of cash to a one dimensional Tristan Thompson. If I were Cleveland, I'd rather improve my future by trading Lebron now then give away my future by trading a player under contract for a one year rental that probably does little to head off another GS championship.

[BobbieL]

The question is does PG-13 prefer LA or winning. If he prefers winning, PHX is in a better situation than LA is, because we can pull in FAs(cap situation) Then the question flips to Grif. If PHX pulled in George, does Griffin come? Bled/Book/George/Griffin/Chandler.

If George wants to win - he pushes the trade to the Cavs for Kevin Love.

He wants to play for the Lakers but if the Lakers still have Mozgov and Deng - pretty hard with the cap I do believe. But they can get their by renouncing rights to certain players

The Suns could benefit a trade if they took a contract like Mozgov or Deng - but it would cost the number 2 pick.

Maybe CLE, for sure, but PHX has its own charms as well. There is no guarantee CLE can or will clear the room for him. They would have to trade out Kyrie or Love for 1 yr of PG. If PG extended it would change the calculus some for both situations, but that would be a trickier fit in CLE since they don't have a quality big to replace Love, and don't have Deron coming back at the 1 to replace Kyrie if he left.

In PHX he would find an ascendant team with assets, cap space and good role players. It would certainly be a risk for both, but if PHX could make it happen, plus convince one more player, the beginnings would be in place for PHX to start competing.

Cleveland has a different end game for wanting George though. The Cavs might be fine with one more push to beat the Warriors and if LeBron leaves and they go back to sucking, well they have two rings for their fans to look at. And the Cavs did give the Hawks a 2019 unprotected pick for Korver so I can see them thinking it is urgent to get George

So, what do the Pacers want for George. Do they want youth - that would be the Lakers straightaway for George - so something like Clarkson, Larry Nance or maybe Randle plus draft picks?

If the Pacers want a guy like Love - that's easy, straight up deal basically

Or, if there is no deal with the Lakers for youth and do not want Love, would they take Knight or Bledsoe (they both make similar to Clarkson), Warren or Bender or Chriss, one of them, not all three, Suns would probably push Warren and the Miami pick

Its tricky. The Suns need to be smart and follow the right path but they also need to figure out to start winning and not just building building building.

[bwgood77]

If the Lakers want Paul George - its going to cost them Russell or Randle and picks as the Cavs can get them Love - even for a one year deal. Or if the Pacers want to go young the Suns want Love - I can see the Bledsoe or Knight plus Warren plus Miami pick and Joenes type deal

I don't think Bledsoe, Warren and a Miami pick is worth one year of Paul George.

I agree about Nance, Clarkson and 28 being a pretty solid package compared to what the Suns can offer

But I am not talking George to the Suns. I was thinking if the Pacers didn't want Love and wanted to rebuild - is there a way for the Suns to get Love while giving Pacers the younger players.

Suns add Love, draft Isaac, you have Booker, Knight or Bledsoe - are you putting the pieces in places to be a playoff caliber team on the rise?

Tthe Pacers do not have much leverage so they have to figure out the best deal for them with GEorge - and yes, maybe it is Clarkson, Nance, the 28th pick and a future first. I would agree if the Lakers get involved - that would be the prime deal

If the Lakers do not get involved - Suns might have a play

If we are worried about PF prospects getting enough time, getting Love would just make things worse. He really doesn't make any sense for this team right now based on where we are.

[Zelaznyrules]

If George wants to win - he pushes the trade to the Cavs for Kevin Love.

He wants to play for the Lakers but if the Lakers still have Mozgov and Deng - pretty hard with the cap I do believe. But they can get their by renouncing rights to certain players

The Suns could benefit a trade if they took a contract like Mozgov or Deng - but it would cost the number 2 pick.

Maybe CLE, for sure, but PHX has its own charms as well. There is no guarantee CLE can or will clear the room for him. They would have to trade out Kyrie or Love for 1 yr of PG. If PG extended it would change the calculus some for both situations, but that would be a trickier fit in CLE since they don't have a quality big to replace Love, and don't have Deron coming back at the 1 to replace Kyrie if he left.

In PHX he would find an ascendant team with assets, cap space and good role players. It would certainly be a risk for both, but if PHX could make it happen, plus convince one more player, the beginnings would be in place for PHX to start competing.

Cleveland has a different end game for wanting George though. The Cavs might be fine with one more push to beat the Warriors and if LeBron leaves and they go back to sucking, well they have two rings for their fans to look at. And the Cavs did give the Hawks a 2019 unprotected pick for Korver so I can see them thinking it is urgent to get George

That's another of those stupid deals that Lebron's camp forced Cleveland into. I think it's far more likely to be the straw that broke the front office's back than it is to be motivation to sink even more money into a lost cause. James went public whining about the lack of investment by the Front Office so they caved and gave away another part of their future. They spent like crazy and Lebron is still whining that he doesn't have the support he needs. Along the way he's scapegoated Tristan and Love, how long before he alienates Kyrie too.