2017 Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion

[BobbieL]

Maybe CLE, for sure, but PHX has its own charms as well. There is no guarantee CLE can or will clear the room for him. They would have to trade out Kyrie or Love for 1 yr of PG. If PG extended it would change the calculus some for both situations, but that would be a trickier fit in CLE since they don't have a quality big to replace Love, and don't have Deron coming back at the 1 to replace Kyrie if he left.

In PHX he would find an ascendant team with assets, cap space and good role players. It would certainly be a risk for both, but if PHX could make it happen, plus convince one more player, the beginnings would be in place for PHX to start competing.

Cleveland has a different end game for wanting George though. The Cavs might be fine with one more push to beat the Warriors and if LeBron leaves and they go back to sucking, well they have two rings for their fans to look at. And the Cavs did give the Hawks a 2019 unprotected pick for Korver so I can see them thinking it is urgent to get George

That's another of those stupid deals that Lebron's camp forced Cleveland into. I think it's far more likely to be the straw that broke the front office's back than it is to be motivation to sink even more money into a lost cause. James went public whining about the lack of investment by the Front Office so they caved and gave away another part of their future. They spent like crazy and Lebron is still whining that he doesn't have the support he needs. Along the way he's scapegoated Tristan and Love, how long before he alienates Kyrie too.

Don't disagree but from Gilberts point of view - he might see this as one more chance. You are right though - overpaid for Shumpert JR smith and Tristan Thompson to stay in the fold to appease James

[BobbieL]

I don't think Bledsoe, Warren and a Miami pick is worth one year of Paul George.

I agree about Nance, Clarkson and 28 being a pretty solid package compared to what the Suns can offer

But I am not talking George to the Suns. I was thinking if the Pacers didn't want Love and wanted to rebuild - is there a way for the Suns to get Love while giving Pacers the younger players.

Suns add Love, draft Isaac, you have Booker, Knight or Bledsoe - are you putting the pieces in places to be a playoff caliber team on the rise?

Tthe Pacers do not have much leverage so they have to figure out the best deal for them with GEorge - and yes, maybe it is Clarkson, Nance, the 28th pick and a future first. I would agree if the Lakers get involved - that would be the prime deal

If the Lakers do not get involved - Suns might have a play

If we are worried about PF prospects getting enough time, getting Love would just make things worse. He really doesn't make any sense for this team right now based on where we are.

I am not sure I agree. If the younger players earn the playing time, they play. Kevin Love is a good player - very good rebounder, good shooter. I think he would make the Suns better and if all you are giving up is Warren, Knight or Bledsoe, Jones and a future pick - why not. The expense is already there for Knight or Bledsoe, Warren isn't getting cheaper plus with Bender, Chriss and the 4th pick might be redundant.

I just look at it as taking the dollars you are already spending and getting possibly a better player. Granted it might cost Bledsoe seems he probably - from other teams point of view, a better player than Knight.

[Zelaznyrules]

Cleveland has a different end game for wanting George though. The Cavs might be fine with one more push to beat the Warriors and if LeBron leaves and they go back to sucking, well they have two rings for their fans to look at. And the Cavs did give the Hawks a 2019 unprotected pick for Korver so I can see them thinking it is urgent to get George

That's another of those stupid deals that Lebron's camp forced Cleveland into. I think it's far more likely to be the straw that broke the front office's back than it is to be motivation to sink even more money into a lost cause. James went public whining about the lack of investment by the Front Office so they caved and gave away another part of their future. They spent like crazy and Lebron is still whining that he doesn't have the support he needs. Along the way he's scapegoated Tristan and Love, how long before he alienates Kyrie too.

Don't disagree but from Gilberts point of view - he might see this as one more chance. You are right though - overpaid for Shumpert JR smith and Tristan Thompson to stay in the fold to appease James

I'd say maybe if it weren't for all the leaks and rumors about the soured relationship between Dan and Lebron. That rift is widening for a reason and this seems to be the likely cause IMO.

[Tysons Elbow]

I dont get the debate? Shouldn't the goal always be to win more games?

McDo has always said he will try to acquire top players wanting a change of scenery, players who become available for whatever reasons. He tried with LMA, halfway threw his hat into the Lebron circle.... who knows what other attempts he's made.

I dont think he has shelved his original outline for contention. If anything, he has set himself up to take another stab at it. There are some top players who very well could be moving this yr. Griffin, Butler, Milsap, Paul, George, Hayward, Lowery, ... put two here and we are right in the mix with the tank is permanently parked. Cant see Ryan putting his youther movement blinders on and being satisfied with another sub 500 season. His job could be on the line.

There should be much more to this off season than a #4 pick

Well, no, it shouldn't be. The goal for the team should be about winning each time they take the court but from a front office perspective the goal should be about building towards championship contention. You can't really build a championship winner (well, almost never), all you can really hope to do is build a team that has a chance to compete at that level. Giving away assets now to try and be competitive before our young gang matures is shortsighted IMO. Chriss is probably 6 years away from being at his peak, Booker is probably 3 to 4 years away, Bender is probably 6 or 7 years away, Warren is probably 2 years away, Ulis is probably 3 years away and that needs to be considered in our timeline.

Ryan is looking for the opportunity to acquire a young player, Hayward at 27 and Blake at 28 are past our range. Even if we could package all of our young players, the Miami picks and a couple of our own in order to add Griffin, Hayward and Butler - that just dead ends us. It's the kind of thing the front office was looking to do when Sarver was having to pinch pennies but that's no longer necessary. We just need to keep on with what we're doing unless a young Gobert type player becomes available, then we can jump.

6 or 7... 3 to 4 ? thats crazy talk. There is way too much thought going into trying to align all these players up so they 'peak' at the same time. It just doesn't happen that way. Champ teams almost ALWAYS have a mix of old and young. And its not always about peak performance. Its about talent. Booker may not have reached his peak yet... but he is still better than half the SGs in the league.

You guys really overthink this 'build for a championship' strategy. This game is simple. Amass talent, get it to mesh with right coach and system, and win games. Get into the playoffs and play your nuts off. Good things happen then.

Thank you for saying this. Getting the most talent on the floor should be the first goal. I think that some people get wrapped up in the "youth movement vs vets" argument that so much gets lost in the meantime. It has become "young"(future) vs "old" (win now/mortgage future). There is so much room in between those 2 sides of a fence (I'm not talking about con-building, either).

I'm not a huge Bledsoe fan due to his fit on the team. However his age doesn't influence my opinion one bit. A 27/28 year old has plenty of good prime years left in him (barring injury). We have to stop being so afraid to sign guys based on age(within reason, of course). Do they fit the core age? No. But you hold on to as much of your young core as you can. Get as much talent on the floor as possible now, win some now, continue to build, continue to win. Then you get your young guys playoff experience. You become more of an attractive destination for FA's. When your core comes of age, you have vets, you have your core in their prime, you hopefully have star free agents wanting to play here, and you have a new crop of young guys ready to repeat the cycle. It's never as black or white as some think it is.


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[BobbieL]

That's another of those stupid deals that Lebron's camp forced Cleveland into. I think it's far more likely to be the straw that broke the front office's back than it is to be motivation to sink even more money into a lost cause. James went public whining about the lack of investment by the Front Office so they caved and gave away another part of their future. They spent like crazy and Lebron is still whining that he doesn't have the support he needs. Along the way he's scapegoated Tristan and Love, how long before he alienates Kyrie too.

Don't disagree but from Gilberts point of view - he might see this as one more chance. You are right though - overpaid for Shumpert JR smith and Tristan Thompson to stay in the fold to appease James

I'd say maybe if it weren't for all the leaks and rumors about the soured relationship between Dan and Lebron. That rift is widening for a reason and this seems to be the likely cause IMO.

But if you are Cavs - this really is the last year anyway, James is getting older. So he probably is never going to be as good as he is right now this next year. One would think Father Time catches up him - so for one season, what team is better? I think adding George makes them better than having Love. Granted, I think they need a lot more. Shumpert sucks and is overpaid. A guy like PJ Tucker could do so much for them but how can they afford him with the taxpayer MLE of 5.1m or whatever. I don't see a team trading for Shumpert unless its the Suns for Knight - for the Suns its just dumping salary. Do the Cavs resign Korver - he isn't going to be cheap and he didn't come up when they needed. So I can totally see the Cavs going for George unless the Lakers include get really active: Randle, Clarkson, and the 28 would probably do it.

Right now - three offers for the Pacers - hypothetically for George

Cavs: Love straight up

Suns - in a three team as the Pacers do not want Love: Bledsoe, Warren, Jones and the Miami pick or the better of the two between Phx and Miami, with some protection

Lakers; Randle, Clarkson and the 28

I think take the last one

[rsavaj]

I have no problem signing a guy like Blake in FA because all you're giving up is cap room(and it's hard to get star FAs to come here), but yeah, not entirely sold on the idea of trading assets for guys like George(rental) or Love(doesn't move the needle much against GS)

[BobbieL]

I have no problem signing a guy like Blake in FA because all you're giving up is cap room(and it's hard to get star FAs to come here), but yeah, not entirely sold on the idea of trading assets for guys like George(rental) or Love(doesn't move the needle much against GS)

I don't see Paul George as an option for the Suns - one year rental. Don't want that

Love - depending on what you give up, might make the team better. That may not move the needle against the Warriors but you are better against the rest of the league and gets you in the playoffs.

The way I see it - Love is signed for three more years; Bledsoe, two more years; Knight, three more years and Warren is an RFA next year. So, is one Love better than Bledsoe/Warren or Knight/Warren - I tend to think so.

[LukasBMW]

Getting PG3 for Kevin Love is the only way the Cavs compete next year.

PG3 + Lebron gives the team 2 legit MVP quality players with Kyrie not far behind.

Add in the supporting cast and all of a sudden a GSW matchup could be very interesting.

And if the Cavs add some ring chasers...it gets even more interesting.

Sure PG could bolt in a year, but then the Cavs could make cap space with PG off the books and Lebron as a free agent. After 2018/2019 Kyrie, TT and JR would be the only ones signed. They'd have a ton of cap room to add a 3rd or even 4th star especially if they can dump one of TT and JR which is possible given their deals are not totally insane with this new cap.

[JJ13]

Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Kyrie Irving

Pacers out: George
Pacers in: Tristan Thompson + Miami pick + CLE 1st

Cavs in: George, Bledsoe
Cavs out: Kyrie Irving

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya76qq7d

Who says no? I know a lot of people don't like Kyrie, just nuts the kid is only 25 with so much experience. His contract is not bad for his production and he is locked in through 2019.

Mini Bron Bron aligns with Bron in CLE and helps save Cavs $4-5MM/yr vs Irving. Bledsoe-Smith-James-George-Love

Pacers get a nice young player in Thompson and two first round picks, not bad for having zero leverage

Suns roll out Kyrie-Booker-Josh Jackson/Tatum-Chriss-Bender/Len(?)/Tyson? Guard defense will absolutely blow but would be an exciting young(er) team

[TeamTragic]

Just posted in trade thread but also relevant to draft, thoughts?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya76qq7d

Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Kyrie Irving

Pacers out: George
Pacers in: Tristan Thompson + Miami pick + CLE 1st

Cavs in: George, Bledsoe
Cavs out: Kyrie Irving

Who says no? I know a lot of people don't like Kyrie, just nuts the kid is only 25 with so much experience. His contract is not bad for his production and he is locked in through 2019.

Mini Bron Bron aligns with Bron in CLE and helps save Cavs $4-5MM/yr vs Irving. Bledsoe-Smith-James-George-Love

Pacers get a nice young player in Thompson and two first round picks, not bad for having zero leverage

Suns roll out Kyrie-Booker-Josh Jackson/Tatum-Chriss-Bender/Len(?)/Tyson? Guard defense will absolutely blow but would be an exciting young(er) team

I love this deal. If it comes down to Irving vs. George who does LeBron pick?

[bwgood77]

Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Kyrie Irving

Pacers out: George
Pacers in: Tristan Thompson + Miami pick + CLE 1st

Cavs in: George, Bledsoe
Cavs out: Kyrie Irving

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya76qq7d

Who says no? I know a lot of people don't like Kyrie, just nuts the kid is only 25 with so much experience. His contract is not bad for his production and he is locked in through 2019.

Mini Bron Bron aligns with Bron in CLE and helps save Cavs $4-5MM/yr vs Irving. Bledsoe-Smith-James-George-Love

Pacers get a nice young player in Thompson and two first round picks, not bad for having zero leverage

Suns roll out Kyrie-Booker-Josh Jackson/Tatum-Chriss-Bender/Len(?)/Tyson? Guard defense will absolutely blow but would be an exciting young(er) team

That's actually an interesting one and a good one, but I think Cleveland says no. Kyrie practically sealed the deal for a finals win, is SUPER clutch, and is their 2nd best player easily. While George is the better player, since him and his agent have made it clear he will go to LA after this year, so anywhere but LA would be a one year rental, I can't see the Cavs doing it for 1 year of him and a clear downgrade at the point in Bledsoe.

[Son of Ra]

Read on Twitter

Love is 28 and will be 29 when season starts. So he is probably not an option for that 19-27 range.

But interesting he mentioned they are involved as part of a three team deal. Hmm, the Paul George trade perhaps

Pretty sure that would be the CHI/BOS Butler trade.

[JJ13]

Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Kyrie Irving

Pacers out: George
Pacers in: Tristan Thompson + Miami pick + CLE 1st

Cavs in: George, Bledsoe
Cavs out: Kyrie Irving

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya76qq7d

Who says no? I know a lot of people don't like Kyrie, just nuts the kid is only 25 with so much experience. His contract is not bad for his production and he is locked in through 2019.

Mini Bron Bron aligns with Bron in CLE and helps save Cavs $4-5MM/yr vs Irving. Bledsoe-Smith-James-George-Love

Pacers get a nice young player in Thompson and two first round picks, not bad for having zero leverage

Suns roll out Kyrie-Booker-Josh Jackson/Tatum-Chriss-Bender/Len(?)/Tyson? Guard defense will absolutely blow but would be an exciting young(er) team

That's actually an interesting one and a good one, but I think Cleveland says no. Kyrie practically sealed the deal for a finals win, is SUPER clutch, and is their 2nd best player easily. While George is the better player, since him and his agent have made it clear he will go to LA after this year, so anywhere but LA would be a one year rental, I can't see the Cavs doing it for 1 year of him and a clear downgrade at the point in Bledsoe.

True but Kyrie gets smoked by other PGs and Bledsoe is a much better on-ball defender...which would help with Mr. Curry

[Sreister]

Just posted in trade thread but also relevant to draft, thoughts?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya76qq7d

Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Kyrie Irving

Pacers out: George
Pacers in: Tristan Thompson + Miami pick + CLE 1st

Cavs in: George, Bledsoe
Cavs out: Kyrie Irving

Who says no? I know a lot of people don't like Kyrie, just nuts the kid is only 25 with so much experience. His contract is not bad for his production and he is locked in through 2019.

Mini Bron Bron aligns with Bron in CLE and helps save Cavs $4-5MM/yr vs Irving. Bledsoe-Smith-James-George-Love

Pacers get a nice young player in Thompson and two first round picks, not bad for having zero leverage

Suns roll out Kyrie-Booker-Josh Jackson/Tatum-Chriss-Bender/Len(?)/Tyson? Guard defense will absolutely blow but would be an exciting young(er) team

Wow. Yeah, that's one of those rare "everyone benefits" trades. Pacers might need more, but honestly, they are in the same situation Dragic put us in, a weak position where you don't want him to walk for nothing, but still get value. Not to mention Bron has stated in the past he likes Bled. That would be huge. Ugh I need to tell myself that it won't happen because this instantly puts us ahead of the rebuild and still keeping us young.

[Sreister]

Just posted in trade thread but also relevant to draft, thoughts?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya76qq7d

Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Kyrie Irving

Pacers out: George
Pacers in: Tristan Thompson + Miami pick + CLE 1st

Cavs in: George, Bledsoe
Cavs out: Kyrie Irving

Who says no? I know a lot of people don't like Kyrie, just nuts the kid is only 25 with so much experience. His contract is not bad for his production and he is locked in through 2019.

Mini Bron Bron aligns with Bron in CLE and helps save Cavs $4-5MM/yr vs Irving. Bledsoe-Smith-James-George-Love

Pacers get a nice young player in Thompson and two first round picks, not bad for having zero leverage

Suns roll out Kyrie-Booker-Josh Jackson/Tatum-Chriss-Bender/Len(?)/Tyson? Guard defense will absolutely blow but would be an exciting young(er) team

I love this deal. If it comes down to Irving vs. George who does LeBron pick?

Kyrie < George/Bled by a mile.

[Son of Ra]

Just posted in trade thread but also relevant to draft, thoughts?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya76qq7d

Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Kyrie Irving

Pacers out: George
Pacers in: Tristan Thompson + Miami pick + CLE 1st

Cavs in: George, Bledsoe
Cavs out: Kyrie Irving

Who says no? I know a lot of people don't like Kyrie, just nuts the kid is only 25 with so much experience. His contract is not bad for his production and he is locked in through 2019.

Mini Bron Bron aligns with Bron in CLE and helps save Cavs $4-5MM/yr vs Irving. Bledsoe-Smith-James-George-Love

Pacers get a nice young player in Thompson and two first round picks, not bad for having zero leverage

Suns roll out Kyrie-Booker-Josh Jackson/Tatum-Chriss-Bender/Len(?)/Tyson? Guard defense will absolutely blow but would be an exciting young(er) team

I love this deal. If it comes down to Irving vs. George who does LeBron pick?

Definitely George. Way better fit and all around player.

As far as the trade goes; is Thompson really an asset? Not that Indiana has any leverage but I think for a rebuilding team, which they would be then, he has no value whatsoever.
Lastly, I don't like it for us since I wouldn't want Irving to be running our show.

[TeamTragic]

Just posted in trade thread but also relevant to draft, thoughts?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya76qq7d

Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Kyrie Irving

Pacers out: George
Pacers in: Tristan Thompson + Miami pick + CLE 1st

Cavs in: George, Bledsoe
Cavs out: Kyrie Irving

Who says no? I know a lot of people don't like Kyrie, just nuts the kid is only 25 with so much experience. His contract is not bad for his production and he is locked in through 2019.

Mini Bron Bron aligns with Bron in CLE and helps save Cavs $4-5MM/yr vs Irving. Bledsoe-Smith-James-George-Love

Pacers get a nice young player in Thompson and two first round picks, not bad for having zero leverage

Suns roll out Kyrie-Booker-Josh Jackson/Tatum-Chriss-Bender/Len(?)/Tyson? Guard defense will absolutely blow but would be an exciting young(er) team

I love this deal. If it comes down to Irving vs. George who does LeBron pick?

Kyrie < George/Bled by a mile.

How much do we think Lebron wants Bledsoe on his team? I would definitely pick George/Bledsoe over Irving. Can you imagine if this deal goes down?

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Love is 28 and will be 29 when season starts. So he is probably not an option for that 19-27 range.

But interesting he mentioned they are involved as part of a three team deal. Hmm, the Paul George trade perhaps

Pretty sure that would be the CHI/BOS Butler trade.

Yes, that is likely what they are talking about considering Boston needs to clearly shed salary and have plenty of young prospects. I don't think they'd give up Smart or Brown if we took a bad contract but Avery Bradley is 26 and would be a nice 2 backup and could play some 1 if Bledsoe is traded...or Rozier.

[bwgood77]

Just posted in trade thread but also relevant to draft, thoughts?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya76qq7d

Phx out: Bledsoe
Phx in: Kyrie Irving

Pacers out: George
Pacers in: Tristan Thompson + Miami pick + CLE 1st

Cavs in: George, Bledsoe
Cavs out: Kyrie Irving

Who says no? I know a lot of people don't like Kyrie, just nuts the kid is only 25 with so much experience. His contract is not bad for his production and he is locked in through 2019.

Mini Bron Bron aligns with Bron in CLE and helps save Cavs $4-5MM/yr vs Irving. Bledsoe-Smith-James-George-Love

Pacers get a nice young player in Thompson and two first round picks, not bad for having zero leverage

Suns roll out Kyrie-Booker-Josh Jackson/Tatum-Chriss-Bender/Len(?)/Tyson? Guard defense will absolutely blow but would be an exciting young(er) team

I love this deal. If it comes down to Irving vs. George who does LeBron pick?

Kyrie < George/Bled by a mile.

Yeah, but since George and his agent have made it clear it would be a one year rental I don't think it's worth it. They really need a good shooter at the 1 as well, especially against GS.

[BobbieL]

Love is 28 and will be 29 when season starts. So he is probably not an option for that 19-27 range.

But interesting he mentioned they are involved as part of a three team deal. Hmm, the Paul George trade perhaps

Pretty sure that would be the CHI/BOS Butler trade.

Yes, that is likely what they are talking about considering Boston needs to clearly shed salary and have plenty of young prospects. I don't think they'd give up Smart or Brown if we took a bad contract but Avery Bradley is 26 and would be a nice 2 backup and could play some 1 if Bledsoe is traded...or Rozier.

In this type of deal is there a way for the Bulls to take Knights contract

Just read on the wire link above - Boston wants to trade the 3 for Butler . Crowder and Zeller basically get it done for the Celtics.

Knight and Crowder also works with Suns getting Bradley

But for Celtics - they move out the contracts of Crowder Bradley and Zeller