2017 Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown!

[JMac1]

When X player has a second workout for a team, it seems most take that as a positive sign for that player being selected by that team. Not sure I agree. Seems to me it's just as likely player X is being brought back in because they surprisingly underwhelmed in the 1st workout.

All these top prospects have been examined to death by every team by the time we get to the team workout phase...ranked one over the other many weeks or months ago. If the player you had firmly #2 on your big board comes in for an individual workout and just doesn't separate himself above your #3 or #4, or even perform below them, wouldn't bringing them back in examination or confirmation to NOT pick them make just as much sense as they're back 'cause the team loves that player? To me it does.

Jackson, Tatum and Isaac are obvious, maybe probable Celtic choices. So..."Tatum goes for a 2nd Celtics workout" ...maybe that means he's in last place among the three right now.

I think they bring them back in to make sure it wasn't a fluke as to why they looked good.

1. Does he really stink? Let's see him again.
2. Is he that good? I'd like to see you do it again.

Normally when somebody fails, you take it as is. You get one shot to look good. However when you look good, most people like to see it again.

[bwgood77]

When X player has a second workout for a team, it seems most take that as a positive sign for that player being selected by that team. Not sure I agree. Seems to me it's just as likely player X is being brought back in because they surprisingly underwhelmed in the 1st workout.

All these top prospects have been examined to death by every team by the time we get to the team workout phase...ranked one over the other many weeks or months ago. If the player you had firmly #2 on your big board comes in for an individual workout and just doesn't separate himself above your #3 or #4, or even perform below them, wouldn't bringing them back in examination or confirmation to NOT pick them make just as much sense as they're back 'cause the team loves that player? To me it does.

Jackson, Tatum and Isaac are obvious, maybe probable Celtic choices. So..."Tatum goes for a 2nd Celtics workout" ...maybe that means he's in last place among the three right now.

That's true with the Celtics and other teams possibly, but for us, I feel like if we haven't had them in for a workout at all, there isn't much chance we take them, since we put so much value in all of our tests and stuff. I'm not sure why Jackson blew off his Boston workout and didn't work out for us, but it's strange. And then he didn't impress the Lakers. Maybe it's just sheer cockiness. I've gotta think the C's are leaning Tatum if Jackson blew off his workout..that, AND they desperately need offensive players. They are loaded with defensive players. Unless they trade the pick it seems like they would take Tatum.

[ATTL]

I think there's going to be a civil war Thursday night

Thursday night? I think we already have one.....Tatum vs Isaac

With the 4th pick in the draft, the Phoenix Suns select.....Josh Jackson....

So the civil war will be all for naught.

I mean, JJ is my guy so I'm good with that

[JMac1]

When X player has a second workout for a team, it seems most take that as a positive sign for that player being selected by that team. Not sure I agree. Seems to me it's just as likely player X is being brought back in because they surprisingly underwhelmed in the 1st workout.

All these top prospects have been examined to death by every team by the time we get to the team workout phase...ranked one over the other many weeks or months ago. If the player you had firmly #2 on your big board comes in for an individual workout and just doesn't separate himself above your #3 or #4, or even perform below them, wouldn't bringing them back in examination or confirmation to NOT pick them make just as much sense as they're back 'cause the team loves that player? To me it does.

Jackson, Tatum and Isaac are obvious, maybe probable Celtic choices. So..."Tatum goes for a 2nd Celtics workout" ...maybe that means he's in last place among the three right now.

That's true with the Celtics and other teams possibly, but for us, I feel like if we haven't had them in for a workout at all, there isn't much chance we take them, since we put so much value in all of our tests and stuff. I'm not sure why Jackson blew off his Boston workout and didn't work out for us, but it's strange. And then he didn't impress the Lakers. Maybe it's just sheer cockiness. I've gotta think the C's are leaning Tatum if Jackson blew off his workout..that, AND they desperately need offensive players. They are loaded with defensive players. Unless they trade the pick it seems like they would take Tatum.

We hope they take Tatum. Also, we really don't know how he did in his workout. Everything is hearsay.

[Sunsss]

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

When X player has a second workout for a team, it seems most take that as a positive sign for that player being selected by that team. Not sure I agree. Seems to me it's just as likely player X is being brought back in because they surprisingly underwhelmed in the 1st workout.

All these top prospects have been examined to death by every team by the time we get to the team workout phase...ranked one over the other many weeks or months ago. If the player you had firmly #2 on your big board comes in for an individual workout and just doesn't separate himself above your #3 or #4, or even perform below them, wouldn't bringing them back in examination or confirmation to NOT pick them make just as much sense as they're back 'cause the team loves that player? To me it does.

Jackson, Tatum and Isaac are obvious, maybe probable Celtic choices. So..."Tatum goes for a 2nd Celtics workout" ...maybe that means he's in last place among the three right now.

That's true with the Celtics and other teams possibly, but for us, I feel like if we haven't had them in for a workout at all, there isn't much chance we take them, since we put so much value in all of our tests and stuff. I'm not sure why Jackson blew off his Boston workout and didn't work out for us, but it's strange. And then he didn't impress the Lakers. Maybe it's just sheer cockiness. I've gotta think the C's are leaning Tatum if Jackson blew off his workout..that, AND they desperately need offensive players. They are loaded with defensive players. Unless they trade the pick it seems like they would take Tatum.

We hope they take Tatum. Also, we really don't know how he did in his workout. Everything is hearsay.

Well with all this tweets flying around now that we are going all in for Butler that we are talking in the trade thread, then we may not have a pick at all, and one less next year. So all this analyzing of prospects will have been a waste of time.

[Christine-In-AZ]

When X player has a second workout for a team, it seems most take that as a positive sign for that player being selected by that team. Not sure I agree. Seems to me it's just as likely player X is being brought back in because they surprisingly underwhelmed in the 1st workout.

All these top prospects have been examined to death by every team by the time we get to the team workout phase...ranked one over the other many weeks or months ago. If the player you had firmly #2 on your big board comes in for an individual workout and just doesn't separate himself above your #3 or #4, or even perform below them, wouldn't bringing them back in examination or confirmation to NOT pick them make just as much sense as they're back 'cause the team loves that player? To me it does.

Jackson, Tatum and Isaac are obvious, maybe probable Celtic choices. So..."Tatum goes for a 2nd Celtics workout" ...maybe that means he's in last place among the three right now.

That's true with the Celtics and other teams possibly, but for us, I feel like if we haven't had them in for a workout at all, there isn't much chance we take them, since we put so much value in all of our tests and stuff. I'm not sure why Jackson blew off his Boston workout and didn't work out for us, but it's strange. And then he didn't impress the Lakers. Maybe it's just sheer cockiness. I've gotta think the C's are leaning Tatum if Jackson blew off his workout..that, AND they desperately need offensive players. They are loaded with defensive players. Unless they trade the pick it seems like they would take Tatum.

I sure hope you're right. A Tatum pick would leave me so.. "ehhh?" (palms to the heavens). I'm Jackson or Fox, but (pretty much) no matter what this board is going to be a ****storm come Thursday nite!

[MathiasPW]

On Gambo:
He has new rumoirs everyday. He is like a rattling gun. Of course every now and then he will get one right. So would any of us if we listed the Suns are really interested in ALL of the top picks like he has.

Literally. He said we are really high on EVERYONE! Of course he will be right on one of those. And then people will say "Oh Gambo said we would pick this guy". Whay about all the others he said we would pick but didn't?

[Biff]

Eh, I don't think there's any reason to be upset about who we pick. I think Tatum is just one of those high floor low ceiling kind of guys. I don't see him being dominate at anything. I think Fox, Jackson and Isaac all have a higher chance at being elite at something and having some ability to dominate but that doesn't mean any of them will. I also think that anyone comparing them to All-NBA guys is getting completely ahead of themselves. None of them are slam dunk for sure things like Kevin Durant or Anthony Davis or Lebron. Or even Melo. What I like most about Jackson, Isaac and Fox is that they're all reasonably humble and very hard working. I haven't heard as much about Tatum regarding his work ethic other than a single Coach K quote, though maybe he has a very strong work ethic as well.

[Waylay13]

Eh, I don't think there's any reason to be upset about who we pick. I think Tatum is just one of those high floor low ceiling kind of guys. I don't see him being dominate at anything. I think Fox, Jackson and Isaac all have a higher chance at being elite at something and having some ability to dominate but that doesn't mean any of them will. I also think that anyone comparing them to All-NBA guys is getting completely ahead of themselves. None of them are slam dunk for sure things like Kevin Durant or Anthony Davis or Lebron. Or even Melo. What I like most about Jackson, Isaac and Fox is that they're all reasonably humble and very hard working. I haven't heard as much about Tatum regarding his work ethic other than a single Coach K quote, though maybe he also has a very strong work ethic as well.

For me drafting Fox would mean that we are trading Bledsoe and we are going to be taking a step back. Fox at 170 lbs is years from being able to play without getting hurt and still doesnt have an outside shoot that would allow him to play outside of the middle. If this were to happen with Jackson on the board I would be extremely pissed.

[TOO]

To all the Issac "he has all the measurables and just needs time" people, Archie Goodwin says hi.

So does Giannis.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM mobile app

Always fun when people use the 1 in a millions draft finds. Isaac doesn't have the athleticism or ridiculous measureables Giannis does. Best case scenario for Isaac is maybe AK47, if Isaac can learn to pass the ball.

[Biff]

Eh, I don't think there's any reason to be upset about who we pick. I think Tatum is just one of those high floor low ceiling kind of guys. I don't see him being dominate at anything. I think Fox, Jackson and Isaac all have a higher chance at being elite at something and having some ability to dominate but that doesn't mean any of them will. I also think that anyone comparing them to All-NBA guys is getting completely ahead of themselves. None of them are slam dunk for sure things like Kevin Durant or Anthony Davis or Lebron. Or even Melo. What I like most about Jackson, Isaac and Fox is that they're all reasonably humble and very hard working. I haven't heard as much about Tatum regarding his work ethic other than a single Coach K quote, though maybe he also has a very strong work ethic as well.

For me drafting Fox would mean that we are trading Bledsoe and we are going to be taking a step back. Fox at 170 lbs is years from being able to play without getting hurt and still doesnt have an outside shoot that would allow him to play outside of the middle. If this were to happen with Jackson on the board I would be extremely pissed.

I'm not sure if that's necessarily true. Jordan was under 200lbs as a 6'6" SG early in his career and attacked the basket relentlessly and only had 1 freak injury. And the fouls back then were much harder. I think Fox would be fine. I will agree that he needs to work on his shot.

Although I really like Bledsoe, I'm not sure that he is a good fit long term. He's a bit old to fit with our current group of youngsters; when they start hitting their prime, he'll be well past his. Especially considering his game relies on athleticism so much.

[DirtyDez]

On Gambo:
He has new rumoirs everyday. He is like a rattling gun. Of course every now and then he will get one right. So would any of us if we listed the Suns are really interested in ALL of the top picks like he has.

Literally. He said we are really high on EVERYONE! Of course he will be right on one of those. And then people will say "Oh Gambo said we would pick this guy". Whay about all the others he said we would pick but didn't?

Who cares. Nobody has a direct source that is a general manager and if they did they wouldn't be getting the direct truth anyway. Even Woj throws out very vague info that may or may not happen.

It stimulates chatter and postings on message boards.

[AtheJ415]

To all the Issac "he has all the measurables and just needs time" people, Archie Goodwin says hi.

So does Giannis.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM mobile app

Always fun when people use the 1 in a millions draft finds. Isaac doesn't have the athleticism or ridiculous measureables Giannis does. Best case scenario for Isaac is maybe AK47, if Isaac can learn to pass the ball.

Always fun when people use somebody who bottomed out as a reason to avoid somebody with upside.

Jimmy Butler was a horrid offensive player when he entered the league. Hell, he was still a horrid one until about 3 years ago. Kawhi was a role player projection heading into the draft. Giannis was a super late pick in a draft that people considered one of the worst in history.

Say what you want, but Isaac is a lot better thought of than Giannis was entering the league. The idea that he can never become that type of player is convenient and an easy argument to make, but it doesn't make it true. He has unique athleticism, length, and coordination for his size. The tools are all there, but the skill has to be developed. Give me somebody like that over a guy with skill but average tools.

We need to come out of this draft with Ball, Jackson, or Isaac. Anybody else is a huge failure imo.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Read the latest McDonough interview and I'd be very surprised if we didn't take the leftover of Jackson / Tatum at 4.

Don't think Fox is in play, wasn't mentioned but mentioned Bledsoe as part of the 19-27 year old core.

Focus seemed to be BPA happens to be a Wing at pick 4 so he'll do that barring a wildcard.

[BobbieL]

So does Giannis.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM mobile app

Always fun when people use the 1 in a millions draft finds. Isaac doesn't have the athleticism or ridiculous measureables Giannis does. Best case scenario for Isaac is maybe AK47, if Isaac can learn to pass the ball.

Always fun when people use somebody who bottomed out as a reason to avoid somebody with upside.

Jimmy Butler was a horrid offensive player when he entered the league. Hell, he was still a horrid one until about 3 years ago. Kawhi was a role player projection heading into the draft. Giannis was a super late pick in a draft that people considered one of the worst in history.

Say what you want, but Isaac is a lot better thought of than Giannis was entering the league. The idea that he can never become that type of player is convenient and an easy argument to make, but it doesn't make it true. He has unique athleticism, length, and coordination for his size. The tools are all there, but the skill has to be developed. Give me somebody like that over a guy with skill but average tools.

We need to come out of this draft with Ball, Jackson, or Isaac. Anybody else is a huge failure imo.

Unless the Suns have Tatum or Fox higher, I am pretty sure the Suns will get one of the three guys

From what I have read, Isaac right now is a better defender/rebounder than offensive talent - that does still have value in the NBA. Serge Ibaka started as Serge I-block-a and Air Congo and has developed a nice guy. John Salley - the same thing. Granted with the 4th pick we all want an All Star, All League player but maybe that's unrealistic.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Ibaka is a very interesting comparison, I just think a SF needs ball handling to be an All Star on our roster.

[thamadkant]

Eh, I don't think there's any reason to be upset about who we pick. I think Tatum is just one of those high floor low ceiling kind of guys. I don't see him being dominate at anything. I think Fox, Jackson and Isaac all have a higher chance at being elite at something and having some ability to dominate but that doesn't mean any of them will. I also think that anyone comparing them to All-NBA guys is getting completely ahead of themselves. None of them are slam dunk for sure things like Kevin Durant or Anthony Davis or Lebron. Or even Melo. What I like most about Jackson, Isaac and Fox is that they're all reasonably humble and very hard working. I haven't heard as much about Tatum regarding his work ethic other than a single Coach K quote, though maybe he also has a very strong work ethic as well.

For me drafting Fox would mean that we are trading Bledsoe and we are going to be taking a step back. Fox at 170 lbs is years from being able to play without getting hurt and still doesnt have an outside shoot that would allow him to play outside of the middle. If this were to happen with Jackson on the board I would be extremely pissed.

I'm not sure if that's necessarily true. Jordan was under 200lbs as a 6'6" SG early in his career and attacked the basket relentlessly and only had 1 freak injury. And the fouls back then were much harder. I think Fox would be fine. I will agree that he needs to work on his shot.

Although I really like Bledsoe, I'm not sure that he is a good fit long term. He's a bit old to fit with our current group of youngsters; when they start hitting their prime, he'll be well past his. Especially considering his game relies on athleticism so much.

I agree that MJ was lean when he came in but the average weight of an NBA player was also lower than today. Today they have chefs and trainers to optimize their bodies.

So if Fox or Isaac ever really wanted to bulk up they can easily. But hard work in the gym also needs a suitable diet... Eating lots of protein.

[BobbieL]

Ibaka is a very interesting comparison, I just think a SF needs ball handling to be an All Star on our roster.

Yes, that would be helpful. I actually am good with Ryan and drafting - he has done a very good job. So whatever player he picks -more than likely, his track record gives him some credibility.

I know this much - if the pick were Isaac and he can come in, defend, block shots, rebound, that has a lot of value.

[bwgood77]

On Gambo:
He has new rumoirs everyday. He is like a rattling gun. Of course every now and then he will get one right. So would any of us if we listed the Suns are really interested in ALL of the top picks like he has.

Literally. He said we are really high on EVERYONE! Of course he will be right on one of those. And then people will say "Oh Gambo said we would pick this guy". Whay about all the others he said we would pick but didn't?

True, I think he's said everyone in the top six except Fultz at least once as our top choice.