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Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017

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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1161 » by Stadium5 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:51 pm

soxfan2003 wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?


Has Wyc gone on record saying he is willing to lose 50-100 million a year? Maybe he has but I never saw him say that.... Wyc went on record a long time ago about the tax when it was a slap on the wrist compared to today's tax. Celtics were still pretty much break even when they were contending for championships with PP/KG/RA and paying some fairly modest luxury tax.

The Celtics under Wyc's ownership according to what I see with Forbes have never lost significant money in any year I can see. Operating income was just low during the relatively high spending days with a luxury tax that was absolutely nothing compared to today. Operating income seem very good nowadays but that quickly disappears with any significant amount of tax.

I think people are wrong if they think Wyc/his partners are going to sign up to be taking a huge loss. I could see losing around 30-40 million in a year as like a one time thing if a key contract was expiring the next year but I will believe a much bigger loss than that when I see it.

I have never seen it under Wyc and I don't blame the guy for it. He isn't Ballmer or anywhere close and C's don't have Lakers revenue stream. Celtics are a business after all....

There is a chance even the Warriors with a higher revenue stream and their great team lose Iggy and they obviously really want to keep him. But what if some non contender offers him 3-4 years at 20 million a year. Becomes hard to justify so its a game of chicken if Iggy isn't willing to play for a discount/realistic price with Golden State. Warriors can't afford to get into a bidding war for their entire bench.

Luxury tax nowadays is flat out devastating and financially crippling to nearly every team. Most owners don't like to throw money into the toilet but they won't say that to fans.

There is a huge, huge difference between paying a small/modest amount of tax -- I have no doubt that Wyc would pay that for the right team.

Lol right dude. Losing an extra 50-100mil every year that goes up exponentially for repeat offenses kind of takes the fun, and the point of owning a team/business. People on here acting like its monopoly play money
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1162 » by Jingles » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:52 pm

From a rich guy pays extra money standpoint I couldn't care less about maxing IT.

From a teambuilding/trying to win championships standpoint, maxing IT is nonsensical. That it helps the bottom line to not do it is just a bonus, I guess. Once you've got Hayward + another star all you need from the point is credible distribution (we're already not playing with a true point), hard-nosed defense (right now we're outsourcing our point guard defense to our shooting guard), and the ability to knock down open threes.

That player is either a Marcus Smart who has figured out his shot or someone you pick up for the MLE. Ainge is saying all the right things about IT given what he's accomplished, but let's be real here—maxing him would be insane when his role with Hayward and Butler, for example, becomes glorified Jason Terry.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1163 » by Froob » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:35 pm

Stadium5 wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:It's funny that I'm on a fan forum that has posters who care about Wyc's bottom line concerning the luxury tax. He's already on record as not giving a **** about paying it for a contender. If they trade for George I'm about 90% sure he resigns. It would mean another player is probably coming in as well. Why leave that?


Has Wyc gone on record saying he is willing to lose 50-100 million a year? Maybe he has but I never saw him say that.... Wyc went on record a long time ago about the tax when it was a slap on the wrist compared to today's tax. Celtics were still pretty much break even when they were contending for championships with PP/KG/RA and paying some fairly modest luxury tax.

The Celtics under Wyc's ownership according to what I see with Forbes have never lost significant money in any year I can see. Operating income was just low during the relatively high spending days with a luxury tax that was absolutely nothing compared to today. Operating income seem very good nowadays but that quickly disappears with any significant amount of tax.

I think people are wrong if they think Wyc/his partners are going to sign up to be taking a huge loss. I could see losing around 30-40 million in a year as like a one time thing if a key contract was expiring the next year but I will believe a much bigger loss than that when I see it.

I have never seen it under Wyc and I don't blame the guy for it. He isn't Ballmer or anywhere close and C's don't have Lakers revenue stream. Celtics are a business after all....

There is a chance even the Warriors with a higher revenue stream and their great team lose Iggy and they obviously really want to keep him. But what if some non contender offers him 3-4 years at 20 million a year. Becomes hard to justify so its a game of chicken if Iggy isn't willing to play for a discount/realistic price with Golden State. Warriors can't afford to get into a bidding war for their entire bench.

Luxury tax nowadays is flat out devastating and financially crippling to nearly every team. Most owners don't like to throw money into the toilet but they won't say that to fans.

There is a huge, huge difference between paying a small/modest amount of tax -- I have no doubt that Wyc would pay that for the right team.

Lol right dude. Losing an extra 50-100mil every year that goes up exponentially for repeat offenses kind of takes the fun, and the point of owning a team/business. People on here acting like its monopoly play money

Trail Blazers have the highest payroll next season, I believe lol.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1164 » by Stadium5 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:38 pm

Jingles wrote:From a rich guy pays extra money standpoint I couldn't care less about maxing IT.

From a teambuilding/trying to win championships standpoint, maxing IT is nonsensical. That it helps the bottom line to not do it is just a bonus, I guess. Once you've got Hayward + another star all you need from the point is credible distribution (we're already not playing with a true point), hard-nosed defense (right now we're outsourcing our point guard defense to our shooting guard), and the ability to knock down open threes.

That player is either a Marcus Smart who has figured out his shot or someone you pick up for the MLE. Ainge is saying all the right things about IT given what he's accomplished, but let's be real here—maxing him would be insane when his role with Hayward and Butler, for example, becomes glorified Jason Terry.

IT should be traded on draft night
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1165 » by BannerStatus » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:42 pm

Send SAC IT and #3 for 5 & 10 - hope for DSJ and Isaac. I'm all in.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1166 » by 165bows » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:49 pm

I'd take another look at Aldridge as a stop gap. Spurs look like they are going the FA route and will retain Gasol.

Get an agreement with Hayward, trade for Aldridge into cap space for a moderate value pick that they don't need, then sign and trade for Hayward with KO and spare pieces. Gets another high end player here without breaking the bank or making a long term commitment to a guy that ultimately needs to be upgraded.

Thomas-AB-Hayward-Aldridge-Horford
Rozier-Smart-Crowder-Tatum-Yabs-Zizic
Jackson-Nader-Thies!-who cares-who cares

Pretty nice crew for a year or two.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1167 » by TommyPoints » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:55 pm

Just get George for scraps and Butler and call it a day.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1168 » by Jingles » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Stadium5 wrote:
Jingles wrote:From a rich guy pays extra money standpoint I couldn't care less about maxing IT.

From a teambuilding/trying to win championships standpoint, maxing IT is nonsensical. That it helps the bottom line to not do it is just a bonus, I guess. Once you've got Hayward + another star all you need from the point is credible distribution (we're already not playing with a true point), hard-nosed defense (right now we're outsourcing our point guard defense to our shooting guard), and the ability to knock down open threes.

That player is either a Marcus Smart who has figured out his shot or someone you pick up for the MLE. Ainge is saying all the right things about IT given what he's accomplished, but let's be real here—maxing him would be insane when his role with Hayward and Butler, for example, becomes glorified Jason Terry.


IT should be traded on draft night


I think you probably have to wait until other moves fall into place, as it sends a weird message to vets you're trying to acquire. Maybe it even waits until a S+T scenario a year from now. It sounds odd but IT has more or less played his way out of Boston—the only way I'd have seen him staying was if he had fulfilled his originally conceived role as microwave scorer off the bench, which would have been optimal from a team-building standpoint.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1169 » by Homerclease » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:01 pm

3 Bradley Crowder for Butler sign Hayward get 2 top 5 picks next year

Ayton/Zizic
Horford/Porter Jr
Hayward/Brown
Butler/Rozier
IT/Smart
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1170 » by tombattor » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:08 pm

chrisab123 wrote:
tombattor wrote:
Jaqua92 wrote:
Yup, a lot of people here enjoy playing gm.

Gimmie George. To predict that anyone in this or next draft is that quality of talent is fruitless

As do you. But risk of him leaving after 1 year is real vs drafting a guy who will be under your control for 5v years at relatively cheap price. Of course if it's straight player for player, George will most likely better than any rookie. But you can't operate on nothing but best case scenario.


The #3 for him is a non starter. But would I trade the Memphis pick and or Bostons own first this year. Yup. But Wyc wants a winner. Did Yankee fans care when Steinbrenner went over the luxury tax? The Celtics have a golden opportunity with LeBron most likely leaving next year.

I don't care about the luxury tax. I'm talking about the possibility of George leaving after 1 year. But as you said, for protected Memphis pick and/or our own, yes i would take a chance at George, even if it's only for 1 year. I was talking more about the 3rd pick.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1171 » by DarkAzcura » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:08 pm

Jingles wrote:From a rich guy pays extra money standpoint I couldn't care less about maxing IT.

From a teambuilding/trying to win championships standpoint, maxing IT is nonsensical. That it helps the bottom line to not do it is just a bonus, I guess. Once you've got Hayward + another star all you need from the point is credible distribution (we're already not playing with a true point), hard-nosed defense (right now we're outsourcing our point guard defense to our shooting guard), and the ability to knock down open threes.

That player is either a Marcus Smart who has figured out his shot or someone you pick up for the MLE. Ainge is saying all the right things about IT given what he's accomplished, but let's be real here—maxing him would be insane when his role with Hayward and Butler, for example, becomes glorified Jason Terry.


IT is still a better offensive player than both Hayward and Butler. I really doubt he becomes a "glorified Jason Terry" if those two are on the team.

Actually what is so bad about a glorified Jason Terry? haha. Terry was the second option on a contender and championship team for years. A better version of that..is a really good thing to have even at ~25 million a year (didn't IT say he would take less recently to bring guys in? I feel like I read that somewhere..or it could be just a rumor).

If we want to compete with GSW (which bringing Hayward and Butler is a sign of), we need as much as offense you can get and be as versatile on defense as possible (which I'll admit, IT obviously hurts). We need IT to give us 25 and for Butler and Hayward to each give us 21-24 PPG to even be in the conversation.

Maybe there is a chance we can compete with Hayward and Butler without IT..but the system has to be perfect and the defense has to be more elite than elite.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1172 » by Jakeopp » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:11 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1173 » by watsonthedragon » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:14 pm

Jakeopp wrote:
Read on Twitter


Make it happen... Would look great next to Horford, and can contribute now and in the future. What do you think they'd want?

Read on Twitter
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1174 » by celticfan42487 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:18 pm

Jingles wrote:From a rich guy pays extra money standpoint I couldn't care less about maxing IT.

From a teambuilding/trying to win championships standpoint, maxing IT is nonsensical. That it helps the bottom line to not do it is just a bonus, I guess. Once you've got Hayward + another star all you need from the point is credible distribution (we're already not playing with a true point), hard-nosed defense (right now we're outsourcing our point guard defense to our shooting guard), and the ability to knock down open threes.

That player is either a Marcus Smart who has figured out his shot or someone you pick up for the MLE. Ainge is saying all the right things about IT given what he's accomplished, but let's be real here—maxing him would be insane when his role with Hayward and Butler, for example, becomes glorified Jason Terry.


Another thing, Boston management has never really paid much in luxury tax. Even when we were contending from 08-12. The Cavs just paid 54 million in lux tax this past season, our owners haven't paid that much in total during Ainge's entire tenure as GM. That's what 5 years of contending from 08 -12 added up and more?

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That luxury tax threshold for our team is real. We don't have a Mark Cuban paying the checks.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1175 » by Jakeopp » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:18 pm

watsonthedragon wrote:
Jakeopp wrote:
Read on Twitter


Make it happen... Would look great next to Horford, and can contribute now and in the future. What do you think they'd want?

Read on Twitter


No idea, maybe #3 and the Lakers/Kings pick? Would that be an overpay? I'm not high on anyone at #3, and the Lakers/Kings pick may not be until '19. I'd have to consider it...
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1176 » by jeremym480 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:27 pm

Hell yes! Hayward and Porzingis are the two players that I've wanted all along!
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1177 » by chrisab123 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:29 pm

Homerclease wrote:3 Bradley Crowder for Butler sign Hayward get 2 top 5 picks next year

Ayton/Zizic
Horford/Porter Jr
Hayward/Brown
Butler/Rozier
IT/Smart


Best case scenario and a damn good roster. Either combo of Butler/Hayward or George/Griffin I'm fine with.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1178 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Butler wants to play for the Cavs now? Geez.......i hope he ends up there and LeBron leaves him there. Have fun in Cleveland
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1179 » by CavemanDoctor » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:32 pm

I'm all in on Porzingis. He's already shown quite a bit and that's in dysfunctional NY.

Picture him in Brad's inside-out offense. He'll be a building block for years to come, and he just so happens to significantly shore up some of our biggest weaknesses.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1180 » by ddb » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:32 pm

BannerStatus wrote:Send SAC IT and #3 for 5 & 10 - hope for DSJ and Isaac. I'm all in.


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