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2017 Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown!

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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#501 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:55 am

Frank Lee wrote:thats an odd stat Mul

does it show he can't create or is he generous with the ball?

I stay away from him, Jackson and Tatum as I think the speed, length, and athleticism of the big leagues will negate their positive collegiate traits.

#4 essentially gives us the first or second chance at drafting a bust.


I'm happy with Jackson at 4. And if you've convinced me, you've convinced everyone in Suns nation. I've suspected Tatum could be BPA, but everything's up in the air at this point.

Jackson fits best. He can be the first wing off the bench, backing both Booker and Warren. Even if Jackson is everything we need and more, we still won't win a lot of games coming out the gate with this group, as we would clearly still need more shooting -- who knows, maybe Brandon Knight would be willing to put out a bit -- but long-term, our path forward becomes clear.
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#502 » by NavLDO » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:58 am

Frank Lee wrote:Isaac is the tape measure hero that is in every draft. His 'potential' teeter totter is more weighted on what he may become, rather than what he is.

Of the top 6 or 7 guys, doesn't he grade out as highest risk?

I have to go bird in the hand with this pick as we can't afford to draft another Len-type project that runs out their rookie deal and remains a question mark.

Fox or Monk for me. Markanen or Collins if we go big. I think we can address the wing slot with 32 as one of those scrabbley names will be available... Iwundu, Ojeleye, Anunoby... and frankly, those guys fit this squad much better than Isaac.

Not sold on Tatum, though he looks like a very safe pick, and dont think Jackson will be there BTW.

PS.... all things equal, intensity remains a very important characteristic.... Jackson and Fox are fierce competitors, Monk is an iceman assassin... and Collins has a Lambeerish chip. Lolly-poppers like Isaac and Ball need not apply.


Hi Frank! Dragic, Len--there, that's out of the way... 8-)

I agree with you on this. I like Fox, and would rather move forward with Fox, or Monk at 8 if McD stupidly trades Booker to NYK for Porzingis, (because it better darn well not be for the pkg I've seen of #4 + Booker for Porzingis with no picks coming back; we better get #8 overall back in that deal, even if it means we trade another asset...say Alan Williams or Len).

I disagree a bit on Tatum, though I understand the concern, but of all the top 10 not named 'Fultz' or 'Fox', his weaknesses/concerns trouble me the least.

Isaac scares the crap out of me. I would be excited to see what he might bring, but worried that he'd never put it all together.
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Re: RE: Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#503 » by Split T » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:59 am

1UPZ wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
jredsaz wrote:I don't think the Suns will ever get JJ in uniform...

The Celtics draft JJ at #3
The Celtics trade #3 for Butler and Bulls draft JJ at #3
JJ falls to the Suns at #4 and they move him (plus some other stuff) to NYK for KP

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I think I'd rather have Jackson than Porzingis.




I really really like JJ and he's top of the board (minus Fultz).. but Porzingis is THE Modern Big man that the league is moving towards to... in a few seasons on his prime you have a potential rim protecting Dirk Nowitski... Phil Jackson is either trolling or just being silly... at their absolute potential peak, Porzingis would be worth more than KAT, yes I said it. I see Porzingis as a potential 25ppg 10rpg 2bpg stretch 4/5.... who no one can guard due to his height and mobility.


KAT is already a 25/10/2 stretch 4/5

He averaged 25/12/1.3 and shot 37% from 3
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Re: RE: Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#504 » by JMac1 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:06 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Read on Twitter
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Everyone thought Dunn was their guy last year and thinks Tatum this year. McD's phone will explode if JJ falls. Knicks/Bulls love him.

I don't think the Suns will ever get JJ in uniform...

The Celtics draft JJ at #3
The Celtics trade #3 for Butler and Bulls draft JJ at #3
JJ falls to the Suns at #4 and they move him (plus some other stuff) to NYK for KP

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I think I'd rather have Jackson than Porzingis.


Nah....gotta disagree with you there.

Come tomorrow this is the scenario or we draft Tatum.
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Re: RE: Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#505 » by JMac1 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:11 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
Mr Puddles wrote: :o :o :o ...and to think i rooted for you to beat Cobra Kai!

TOO wrote: :crazy:

SarcasticSun wrote:No way. If we can get Porzingis for anything not giving up Booker we should take it. A Booker+Porzingis combo would be one of if not the best under 25 pairing in the league. If Jackson never develops a jump shot he is nothing more than a role player. We already know what Porzingis is in the NBA, and his ceiling is through the roof. Not to mention he is only one year older than Jackson. Bottom line, if we can get Porzingis without giving up Booker, we do it.

Irrelevant though because I don't think they are serious about trading him, they just wanted to see if they could get a king's ransom for him.

I feel like some of you are drinking the National Sports Coverage Kool-Aid and forgetting we've got a damn talented roster already. Plus Jackson is so taylor made for our squad it's ridiculous. He's an intense defender, a great transition athlete that handles and passes the ball well. So his shot is inconsistent. We've got a sharp shooting 2-guard with two stretch bigs.

I think y'all are getting carried away with rosterbation. We have a chance to have a floor general (Ulis - yes, Ulis), an all-time scorer (Booker), a lock-down defender (Jackson), a unicorn (Bender), and one of the most athletic bigs in the NBA (Chriss) on the same roster around the same age, for the next decade. No need to over-think it now.


So you wouldn't like to see Bender and Pozingis at the 4 and 5, along with Booker at the 2?!?

I'd trade Chriss instead of Bende.
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#506 » by Hesh » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:16 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:I'm happy with Jackson at 4. And if you've convinced me, you've convinced everyone in Suns nation. I've suspected Tatum could be BPA, but everything's up in the air at this point.

Jackson fits best. He can be the first wing off the bench, backing both Booker and Warren. Even if Jackson is everything we need and more, we still won't win a lot of games coming out the gate with this group, as we would clearly still need more shooting -- who knows, maybe Brandon Knight would be willing to put out a bit -- but long-term, our path forward becomes clear.


This is what worries me. I want JJ above all other prospects aswell at #4 but I don't see him improving this group immediately, he would be more of a compliment to other scorers with his intangibles, defense and somewhat limited offense and if his ceiling is to be a Igoudala type player and he does reach it, how does that really help us long-term? We would still be relying on the improvements of Bender and Chriss to shape the offense of this team which still has alot of uncertainty.
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#507 » by Mulhollanddrive » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:28 pm

I'm warming to Jackson because as it comes closer to getting a guy, you know he is elite in athleticism and competitiveness and that rules out the majority causes of high draft pick flops. I don't see his upside being too different to Tatum, Isaac, Fox but it's more a risk issue where he has more tangibles established.

I trust DX and they have Tatum @ 3 and Jackson @ 4 a day out.
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#508 » by Sreister » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:32 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I'm warming to Jackson because as it comes closer to getting a guy, you know he is elite in athleticism and competitiveness and that rules out the majority causes of high draft pick flops. I don't see his upside being too different to Tatum, Isaac, Fox but it's more a risk issue where he has more tangibles established.

I trust DX and they have Tatum @ 3 and Jackson @ 4 a day out.


That's what keeps me with JJ > Isaac or Tatum. That competitiveness. It's an underrated trait when evaluating prospects. That's why Dray is what he is right now. I'm back on keeping 4 and going JJ and going through with "the process". I'm ok with trading Bled for a top ten and getting someone like DSJ, but let's keep our young core in tact and keep going.
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#509 » by NavLDO » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:55 pm

1UPZ wrote:I have a feeling Bledsoe is going to be shipped before draft night. For a pick... I'm looking at Mavs and Knicks.


Very possible. And with the trade rumors of Porzingis, it's clear Jackson has his sights set on a top 5 prospect. The proposed trade idea I read, Porzingis for Booker + #4, BETTER be a non-starter. But, I'd be willing to go Porzingis + Rose + 8, for Bledsoe + #4 + Chriss. Let's face it; having Porzingis makes Chriss and/or Bender expendable. We take on a ridiculously bad $21M, 1 year Contract for Rose, or am I discounting Rose's value too much?

It's clear that the NYK feel that all the 'stud' PGs will be gone by 8, and figure if they can trade Porzinigis for #3 or #4, they assure themselves of ether Ball or Fox, and shoot, Smith is no guarantee to be on the board at #8 they are trying to lock up their PG of the future with a Top-5-heavy-PG-talent Draft class. Then, with #8, they can get Porzingis-lite in Markkanen or Zach Collins.

Well, we can forestall that need by trading them Chriss, or Bender if necessary:

Rose / Ulis
Booker / Knight
Warren / Dudley (Bender??)
Porzingis / Bender or Chriss, depending
Collins / (#8 Draft Pick) or Len, depending
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#510 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:02 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:My hopes at this point:

4. One of Jackson, Isaac. If we take Tatum I won't be pissed but won't be as happy as either of those. Would hate Fox honestly.

32. Semi, Ferguson, Bell (hope one falls to there), Hart. I can live with Brooks but prefer these others.

54. Jeanne (huge gamble but if our med team clears him then worthwhile), Morris (know it won't happen but think he'll be good), Motley, or Simmons (as a long-term combo guard project in the new 2 way D league format).


We're on the same page mostly. I like Brooks a lot for the 2nd pick. Would love a backup 2 for Booker that is tough as nails. But there are a bunch of wings I'd like too.

I need to look more at 54. I know I like Kadeem Allen. Just all heart...he could be like another TJ McConnell.
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#511 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:04 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
Mr-Al wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:
There is no chance that the Lakers are that stupid. Right? RIGHT?!


They did just trade DLo for peanuts so who knows.

Lakers wanted to trade #2 to the Kings for #5 and #10. Then trade one of the Kings picks for PG

That means they aren't sold on Ball if that rumor was true. At the end of the day that means they might consider #2 for PG and Ball falls to us. Then I would trade Ball + (something) for Porzingis. Then consider trading Warren + (something) for MKG

bled OR ball (one has to get traded)
booker
MKG
Chriss/Bender (one might get traded)
Porzingis

idk just brainstorming


If they are not high on Ball then trade down. I'm sure that someone else will take him ;)


They are high on Fox too, but the Kings might prefer Fox anyway. But it would assure the Kings Jackson if they want him at 2. Then the Lakers could get Fox or maybe even Ball at 5, and throw the 10 in the George trade offer with 27, 28, Randle, and maybe someone else.

I imagine the Lakers will keep it and take Ball though.
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Re: RE: Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#512 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:07 pm

Mr Puddles wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
jredsaz wrote:I don't think the Suns will ever get JJ in uniform...

The Celtics draft JJ at #3
The Celtics trade #3 for Butler and Bulls draft JJ at #3
JJ falls to the Suns at #4 and they move him (plus some other stuff) to NYK for KP

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

I think I'd rather have Jackson than Porzingis.


:o :o :o ...and to think i rooted for you to beat Cobra Kai!


Would you trade Bledsoe, Chriss and the 4 for Porzingis?
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#513 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:15 pm

NavLDO wrote:
1UPZ wrote:I have a feeling Bledsoe is going to be shipped before draft night. For a pick... I'm looking at Mavs and Knicks.


Very possible. And with the trade rumors of Porzingis, it's clear Jackson has his sights set on a top 5 prospect. The proposed trade idea I read, Porzingis for Booker + #4, BETTER be a non-starter. But, I'd be willing to go Porzingis + Rose + 8, for Bledsoe + #4 + Chriss. Let's face it; having Porzingis makes Chriss and/or Bender expendable. We take on a ridiculously bad $21M, 1 year Contract for Rose, or am I discounting Rose's value too much?

It's clear that the NYK feel that all the 'stud' PGs will be gone by 8, and figure if they can trade Porzinigis for #3 or #4, they assure themselves of ether Ball or Fox, and shoot, Smith is no guarantee to be on the board at #8 they are trying to lock up their PG of the future with a Top-5-heavy-PG-talent Draft class. Then, with #8, they can get Porzingis-lite in Markkanen or Zach Collins.

Well, we can forestall that need by trading them Chriss, or Bender if necessary:

Rose / Ulis
Booker / Knight
Warren / Dudley (Bender??)
Porzingis / Bender or Chriss, depending
Collins / (#8 Draft Pick) or Len, depending


Isn't Rose a FA? Probably have to take on someone else to match.
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Re: RE: Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#514 » by jredsaz » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:22 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
1UPZ wrote:I have a feeling Bledsoe is going to be shipped before draft night. For a pick... I'm looking at Mavs and Knicks.


Very possible. And with the trade rumors of Porzingis, it's clear Jackson has his sights set on a top 5 prospect. The proposed trade idea I read, Porzingis for Booker + #4, BETTER be a non-starter. But, I'd be willing to go Porzingis + Rose + 8, for Bledsoe + #4 + Chriss. Let's face it; having Porzingis makes Chriss and/or Bender expendable. We take on a ridiculously bad $21M, 1 year Contract for Rose, or am I discounting Rose's value too much?

It's clear that the NYK feel that all the 'stud' PGs will be gone by 8, and figure if they can trade Porzinigis for #3 or #4, they assure themselves of ether Ball or Fox, and shoot, Smith is no guarantee to be on the board at #8 they are trying to lock up their PG of the future with a Top-5-heavy-PG-talent Draft class. Then, with #8, they can get Porzingis-lite in Markkanen or Zach Collins.

Well, we can forestall that need by trading them Chriss, or Bender if necessary:

Rose / Ulis
Booker / Knight
Warren / Dudley (Bender??)
Porzingis / Bender or Chriss, depending
Collins / (#8 Draft Pick) or Len, depending


Isn't Rose a FA? Probably have to take on someone else to match.

Noah...

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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#515 » by Villalobos » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:24 pm

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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#516 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:31 pm

I bet a bunch of guys go in the 50s that aren't currently being projected to be drafted. With the new split contracts I think teams will have prearranged deals in place with guys who agree before the draft to take one of these split deals.

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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#517 » by jredsaz » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:44 pm

Villalobos wrote:
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This is good on so many levels. However, I just don't see how the Celtics make this pick. At least for themselves. They got to be all in on butler.
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#518 » by King4Day » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:47 pm

jredsaz wrote:
Villalobos wrote:
Read on Twitter


This is good on so many levels. However, I just don't see how the Celtics make this pick. At least for themselves. They got to be all in on butler.


I heard on NBA radio that the Bulls reached out to the C's to trade Butler for the 3rd pick and were denied by Boston.
If that's true, then Boston will have to make this pick based on who they want. Guessing Tatum might fit their need more.
Not sure who else they'd work with to make deal.
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#519 » by jredsaz » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:49 pm

DarkHawk wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Villalobos wrote:
Read on Twitter


This is good on so many levels. However, I just don't see how the Celtics make this pick. At least for themselves. They got to be all in on butler.


I heard on NBA radio that the Bulls reached out to the C's to trade Butler for the 3rd pick and were denied by Boston.
If that's true, then Boston will have to make this pick based on who they want. Guessing Tatum might fit their need more.
Not sure who else they'd work with to make deal.


I read that too. I just don't know if I believe it. #3 for Butler straight up? Come on. How do the Cs turn that down?
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Re: Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown! 

Post#520 » by Villalobos » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:57 pm

jredsaz wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
This is good on so many levels. However, I just don't see how the Celtics make this pick. At least for themselves. They got to be all in on butler.


I heard on NBA radio that the Bulls reached out to the C's to trade Butler for the 3rd pick and were denied by Boston.
If that's true, then Boston will have to make this pick based on who they want. Guessing Tatum might fit their need more.
Not sure who else they'd work with to make deal.


I read that too. I just don't know if I believe it. #3 for Butler straight up? Come on. How do the Cs turn that down?


They may prefer a rookie contract of a prospect they're high on right now + Hayward versus just Butler.

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