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The case for Jonathan Isaac

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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#701 » by tiderulz » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:23 pm

a comparison I am not hearing, but seems pretty close right now. Porzingis.
Tall, skinny player, fluid athlete. straight line driver, better than average 3 pt shooter, good in steals and blocks.
First year stats for Zinger dont look too out of reach for Isaac
14 ppg, 7 rpg, FG 42%, 3 pt 33%, 2 bpg

Zinger
On the downside, Porzingis still looks a long ways away from reaching his full potential here, starting with his body, which remains very frail and could make him susceptible to injuries if not developed carefully. He also lacks something in the ways of toughness and awareness, as he tends to avoid contact in the paint and regularly gets pushed around on the interior, not always offering up as much resistance as you might hope.

Isaac
Still, his rail thin frame and lack of physicality hurts him in this regard, and he'll regularly get pushed around on the glass by bigger and stronger competition, even at the college level.


Zinger
Besides his physical attributes, the most appealing part of Porzingis' game revolves around his feathery touch from the perimeter. He has beautiful shooting mechanics, complete with deep range, a quick release, and the ability to make shots either coming off screens or as a floor-spacer with his feet set. It's virtually impossible to contest his shot at over 7-feet with his high release point, and he's hitting an outstanding 43% of his 136 catch and shoot attempts thus far this season, including 38% of his 3-pointers (33/87 in 38 games). If the defense closes out too aggressively, he can put the ball down in a straight line and make his way to the basket, sometimes for a very impressive finish.

Isaac
The form on his jump shot gives hope that it's a weapon he can continue to improve upon down the line, as the ball comes out of his wrist smoothly, with proper rotation and a high release point. He also seemed to get slightly better at his pre-shot preparation as the season wore on, doing a better job of stepping into the shot and speeding up his release a bit.
but he does have enough confidence in it to use his athleticism to attack closeouts, and once he gets one or two steps and builds up steam downhill, his ability to elevate around the rim at an elite level really shines.


Zinger
His combination of size, length and mobility gives him impressive versatility on the pick and roll, allowing him to hedge out past the 3-point line and still recover in time to make a play in the paint for example. He's also agile enough to switch and stay in front of smaller players if called upon, giving his team the type of positional flexibility every coaching staff in the NBA covets greatly these days.

Isaac
While Isaac can at times get caught on misdirections and pump fakes, something that should improve with experience, that combination length, athleticism, quick feet on the perimeter, and the effort and technique to utilize them gives him real positional versatility defensively, something which coaches at the next level will likely love.

Isaac's intrigue starts with his rare physical tools and defensive potential. Measuring just under 6'11 in shoes at last year's Nike Hoop Summit, with a 7'1" wingspan and a standing reach slightly over 9'. Isaac augments that length for a forward with athleticism you don't typically find in someone his size.That combines to create one of the more unique defensive prospects in the draft, with the size and reach of a power forward or center, but the perimeter foot speed to switch onto guards


Zinger
With that said, it's important to remember that Porzingis is still only 19 years old, not turning 20 until after this year's draft (in August). He has two years of high-level experience already playing in the toughest domestic league in the world outside of the NBA, and is still only scratching the surface of how good he can become. His unique combination of size, skills and mobility at 7-1 gives him incredible potential to grow into in time, even if more-so than any other prospect in the draft possibly, he needs to land in the right situation in the draft.

Isaac
Jonathan Isaac is an interesting case. He's one of the more unique, and possibly impactful, defensive prospects in this draft, with a combination of playmaking, length, athleticism, effort, and versatility that you don't find very often. That kind of role, especially i he can make that three-point shot a consistent part of his game to spread the floor, is an incredibly valuable one for teams to fill, especially as more and more coaches want to switch anything they can on the perimeter. Isaac fits that archetype to a T.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#702 » by PennytoShaq » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:29 pm

I agree with this comparison in some ways. It is not dead on, but it is real interesting. Isaac is like a hybrid between Zinger and KD with the potential to have a Rashard type 3 point game.

The main thing I noticed when I compared the two before is that Zinger has an insane wing span of 8 feet.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#703 » by tiderulz » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:35 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:I agree with this comparison in some ways. It is not dead on, but it is real interesting. Isaac is like a hybrid between Zinger and KD with the potential to have a Rashard type 3 point game.

The main thing I noticed when I compared the two before is that Zinger has an insane wing span of 8 feet.


Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 23m23 minutes ago
Just got the measurements for @kporzee from @impactbball! 7'1.25" w/out shoes, 7'6 wingspan, 230 lbs. Longest wingspan in the draft.

unless he grew another 3 inches on each arm, dont think he has 8' wingspan

but 7'6 is still good. Same as Bismack
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#704 » by PennytoShaq » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:37 pm

tiderulz wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:I agree with this comparison in some ways. It is not dead on, but it is real interesting. Isaac is like a hybrid between Zinger and KD with the potential to have a Rashard type 3 point game.

The main thing I noticed when I compared the two before is that Zinger has an insane wing span of 8 feet.


Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 23m23 minutes ago
Just got the measurements for @kporzee from @impactbball! 7'1.25" w/out shoes, 7'6 wingspan, 230 lbs. Longest wingspan in the draft.

unless he grew another 3 inches on each arm, dont think he has 8' wingspan

but 7'6 is still good. Same as Bismack


He is listed at 8 feet if you google him now. So he must have grown.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#705 » by tiderulz » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:41 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:I agree with this comparison in some ways. It is not dead on, but it is real interesting. Isaac is like a hybrid between Zinger and KD with the potential to have a Rashard type 3 point game.

The main thing I noticed when I compared the two before is that Zinger has an insane wing span of 8 feet.


Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 23m23 minutes ago
Just got the measurements for @kporzee from @impactbball! 7'1.25" w/out shoes, 7'6 wingspan, 230 lbs. Longest wingspan in the draft.

unless he grew another 3 inches on each arm, dont think he has 8' wingspan

but 7'6 is still good. Same as Bismack


He is listed at 8 feet if you google him now. So he must have grown.


i did. where did you see it? cant find a measured listing. And im not going to trust some random site listing it, where players can just say what they want it to be. If you are just talking Google in general, they also say Russ has a 7' WS and his is really 6'7

it also listed Giannis at 7' when he was measured 7'3 at the combine

thats why i dont trust a random number. i want camp or combine measurements
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#706 » by PennytoShaq » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:44 pm

tiderulz wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 23m23 minutes ago
Just got the measurements for @kporzee from @impactbball! 7'1.25" w/out shoes, 7'6 wingspan, 230 lbs. Longest wingspan in the draft.

unless he grew another 3 inches on each arm, dont think he has 8' wingspan

but 7'6 is still good. Same as Bismack


He is listed at 8 feet if you google him now. So he must have grown.


i did. where did you see it? cant find a measured listing. And im not going to trust some random site listing it, where players can just say what they want it to be


Thats what sucks is the last measured listing is from 2 years ago. And guys grow from there. So we don't know for sure if it is 7'6 or 8, or what. Even if we split it down the middle and say it's around 7'9 or so, that is still longer than Isaacs by about half a foot.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#707 » by tiderulz » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:47 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
He is listed at 8 feet if you google him now. So he must have grown.


i did. where did you see it? cant find a measured listing. And im not going to trust some random site listing it, where players can just say what they want it to be


Thats what sucks is the last measured listing is from 2 years ago. And guys grow from there. So we don't know for sure if it is 7'6 or 8, or what. Even if we split it down the middle and say it's around 7'9 or so, that is still longer than Isaacs by about half a foot.


well, Zinger is 2 years older now. If you are saying his is still growing, Isaac could close that gap in the next 2 years also, considering they are about the same age when drafted
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#708 » by Xatticus » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:55 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:I agree with this comparison in some ways. It is not dead on, but it is real interesting. Isaac is like a hybrid between Zinger and KD with the potential to have a Rashard type 3 point game.

The main thing I noticed when I compared the two before is that Zinger has an insane wing span of 8 feet.


Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 23m23 minutes ago
Just got the measurements for @kporzee from @impactbball! 7'1.25" w/out shoes, 7'6 wingspan, 230 lbs. Longest wingspan in the draft.

unless he grew another 3 inches on each arm, dont think he has 8' wingspan

but 7'6 is still good. Same as Bismack


He is listed at 8 feet if you google him now. So he must have grown.


Maybe he stopped biting his fingernails.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#709 » by PennytoShaq » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:11 pm

tiderulz wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
i did. where did you see it? cant find a measured listing. And im not going to trust some random site listing it, where players can just say what they want it to be


Thats what sucks is the last measured listing is from 2 years ago. And guys grow from there. So we don't know for sure if it is 7'6 or 8, or what. Even if we split it down the middle and say it's around 7'9 or so, that is still longer than Isaacs by about half a foot.


well, Zinger is 2 years older now. If you are saying his is still growing, Isaac could close that gap in the next 2 years also, considering they are about the same age when drafted


Regardless the big picture is this - what is this team going to be? With Isaac we have a guy who can fit 3-5. I'd like to see him start at the 3 since this is a tank year. Plus if he shows promise there, he is a unicorn. Since the Magic are going to evolve to position less ball, What I am hoping to see is Isaac play like a 3, but the Magic adding more wings so a C has to come out and guard him.

I would not be surprised if the Magic think that they can deploy a lineup of PG (Payton?)/Ross/Fournier/AG/Isaac. That lineup would actually have decent shooting and the offense would be better than expected due to the mismatches created. They could play Isaac like a wing and let Gordon do the cutting through the lane and the pick and rolls. Ross could be assessed and possibly traded at the deadline since he is on a great contract and Fournier as well.

Playing Isaac like a wing player and letting him defend the paint is something that could turn him into an all-star. I love the guys's paint defense. Yes, he is quite thin, but he is tough in the paint on defense. He would get thrown more on offense because he was selling fouls sometimes. His paint defense was real impressive to me at FSU though. The Magic could acknowledge that they would not have as much size in the paint, but their length would still agitate, and on offense they would have nice mismatches.

Main issue there is Payton's defense and Fournier guarding 3's. That is why I think the Magic will still need to make a few trades, just to establish this blue print.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#710 » by prizm » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:13 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:I have never once said the Magic should not draft Isaac. Never. That thread does not exist, and you will never produce evidence of that. This is not about memory, it is about the fact that you have made less than 100 posts that are easily searchable and prove that what you just stated was completely made up and false.

Just stop with this nonsense - ignored.

maybe you edit your post :roll:

you know what...im mature enough to not sweat this nonsense. we're all magic fans here and their about to build something new so lets all just hope this team can be playoff contenders in couple years and once 2030 hits we can all celebrate like its 1999.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#711 » by drsd » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:10 pm

Isaac has "next Rashard Lewis" to his game. But with some shot blocking at the 3-slot. I am excited about that!

..
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#712 » by dsg2021 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:33 pm

Watched a couple of full games, a ton more game by game short tapes, and some more research.. and wow. You think it's another "potential" pick.. especially when there's only so many words to profile these players that we've come to see the same type of profile before and before.. but not the nuances in-between.. and when you do the homework.. things gets real interesting, real fast. It's clearly an eye-opener.

1. The wingspan is unbelievable. You just see it in the game, the radius zone he has, it makes him so dangerous out there.
2. He didn't even focus or practice around blocking shots and rebounding until college, where he finally did, and he did it fearlessly right off the bad, intimidation style.
3. Instead, he's been defending like a guard most of his life. He has really active hands for steals and for fundamental defense (hands up). He is laterally quick on D too. That was my best skill in my game too, just really underrated these days. On the flip side, you look at Mario's atrocious lateral D, and it shows you how underrated it is (by not having it). Even still, here you can also see in the highlight vids where he pulls off the recovery defense and chase down blocks really, really well too.
4. He's got a great short-dribble, pull-up J move. He'll release high because of his height and wingspan too. Can be seen posting up on some shots, fading back a little on others. He is actually quite decisive in his offensive moves (whether dribble and shot, fake and shot, straight shot, straight drive, etc.), and while his shot release is slow, it actually adds stability and reliability to his jumper. He finishes it with a great follow-through, as well as a traditional "jump"-shot (flat-footed shooters tend to be less reliable shooters). The "jump" will also add more space with his height/wingspan. So I think he'll keep having this breathing room in the NBA usually, to release slowly, shooting the J with surety and confidence.
5. Between the decisiveness in offense, and the consistent, slow release, he gives off a confident sense in his jumper. This is nowhere near a jumper that has to be broken down and re-fixed. It's great at the mid, it's great at the FT line, and it really just needs to extend to NBA 3 because he was making it more reliably in those mid ranges. He had 3 great NCAA 3P% months. And a very, very interesting piece of info; his worst two months in 3P% were his least two months of 3PA. It gives credence to that the more he shoots, in his current style, the more confident he gets.
6. The passing vision looks way better than the low assist numbers suggested. Way, way, better. And that damn wingspan again, it helps him make some great passes.
7. He speaks with intelligence, maturity, teamwork mentality, and introspection in interviews. The way he is thinking, I think he's striving to make himself a "flawless player".

To not make this seem like a fluff piece, I will say a bad thing or two. He doesn't seem to force the bucket or do an extended dribble attack, like a #1 option. I also did not feel impressed by his driving game. He looks more like he is going for the smart, unguardable plays. To be an elite shooter. Can't really fault him, he has the length and ambition to be making high percentage shots for him, and it seems like he values high efficiency numbers more than raw points (I would want to be that kind of player too). I also can't get a read on his ball handle skill so far, it looks above average/average on the surface, but not with a ton of experience of "here's on-ball pressure, make a something good happen". The one good thing I do see is that he can one dribble from the 3 point line all the way to the basket, and he has rebounded and initiated transition/the dribble down all by himself too.



If I am Isaac, I go and get an iPad and watch tapes of Andrei Kirilenko, Kevin Garnett, Kristaps Porzingis, and Kawhi Leonard for defense every night. Four defenders with his similar length.
Kirilenko was amazing in his prime years, fantastic comparison I saw made at the draft.
KG if he wants to be a living legend of defensive players. DPOY level.
And a lot of Porzingis because, he is here, right now, fitting the NBA trends, and Isaac may be able to learn and replicate it to quickly be an elite 4/5 before being an elite 3/4/5.
And finally, Kawhi Leonard tape for perimeter defense. Elite defense in every zone of the half-court, not just near the paint.

For offense, I would watch four players mainly. Rashard Lewis, Dirk Nowitzki, Kawhi Leonard, and Kevin Durant.
Rashard Lewis for the blueprint on being a confident jump shooter and offensive player in your own style, even if it is not as a #1 option style of offense. Similar to Porzingis, be an elite 4 before being an elite 3.
Then Kawhi Leonard and Kevin Durant for how they use their SF-leaning games and lengths to make high percentage, go-to moves in the offense. Kawhi is a really great example of a star player who maturely focused on defense and high percentage, #2/#3 option offense first, then with confidence and success grew to Finals MVP and #1 option. Again, be an elite defender and elite #2/#3 option before being an elite #1 option (if that comes to him down the line).
Then finally, Durant and Dirk Nowitzki as really great examples of "ultimate offense". Don't even know how else to put it, or how obvious it would be to study their tapes. In simplistic terms, Dirk personifies offense fueled by unstoppable shooting, Durant by unstoppable moves. "Pick your poison" of the two, to watch and learn from.


I'm genuinely really excited to see Isaac playing for the Magic. He's just so eye-opening now. Mad props for the new management to go for the high impact, high ceiling 3/4 Wing instead of "pretty shooting" players. As well as to go for a project player when we the deep fanbase were tired of projects. The projects are what turn out to be the biggest impact players. Only one goal after all, and it's gold color.

Skin, is it too late for me to join you on the Isaac bandwagon? Any space for me? :D
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#713 » by MagicalPatience » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:41 pm

Well said dsg. He looks to be a missing piece we can finally build around. I really want to see how he plays with Elfrid and Aaron.
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#714 » by dsg2021 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:16 pm

tiderulz wrote:a comparison I am not hearing, but seems pretty close right now. Porzingis.
Tall, skinny player, fluid athlete. straight line driver, better than average 3 pt shooter, good in steals and blocks.
First year stats for Zinger dont look too out of reach for Isaac
14 ppg, 7 rpg, FG 42%, 3 pt 33%, 2 bpg

Spoiler:
Zinger
On the downside, Porzingis still looks a long ways away from reaching his full potential here, starting with his body, which remains very frail and could make him susceptible to injuries if not developed carefully. He also lacks something in the ways of toughness and awareness, as he tends to avoid contact in the paint and regularly gets pushed around on the interior, not always offering up as much resistance as you might hope.

Isaac
Still, his rail thin frame and lack of physicality hurts him in this regard, and he'll regularly get pushed around on the glass by bigger and stronger competition, even at the college level.


Zinger
Besides his physical attributes, the most appealing part of Porzingis' game revolves around his feathery touch from the perimeter. He has beautiful shooting mechanics, complete with deep range, a quick release, and the ability to make shots either coming off screens or as a floor-spacer with his feet set. It's virtually impossible to contest his shot at over 7-feet with his high release point, and he's hitting an outstanding 43% of his 136 catch and shoot attempts thus far this season, including 38% of his 3-pointers (33/87 in 38 games). If the defense closes out too aggressively, he can put the ball down in a straight line and make his way to the basket, sometimes for a very impressive finish.

Isaac
The form on his jump shot gives hope that it's a weapon he can continue to improve upon down the line, as the ball comes out of his wrist smoothly, with proper rotation and a high release point. He also seemed to get slightly better at his pre-shot preparation as the season wore on, doing a better job of stepping into the shot and speeding up his release a bit.
but he does have enough confidence in it to use his athleticism to attack closeouts, and once he gets one or two steps and builds up steam downhill, his ability to elevate around the rim at an elite level really shines.


Zinger
His combination of size, length and mobility gives him impressive versatility on the pick and roll, allowing him to hedge out past the 3-point line and still recover in time to make a play in the paint for example. He's also agile enough to switch and stay in front of smaller players if called upon, giving his team the type of positional flexibility every coaching staff in the NBA covets greatly these days.

Isaac
While Isaac can at times get caught on misdirections and pump fakes, something that should improve with experience, that combination length, athleticism, quick feet on the perimeter, and the effort and technique to utilize them gives him real positional versatility defensively, something which coaches at the next level will likely love.

Isaac's intrigue starts with his rare physical tools and defensive potential. Measuring just under 6'11 in shoes at last year's Nike Hoop Summit, with a 7'1" wingspan and a standing reach slightly over 9'. Isaac augments that length for a forward with athleticism you don't typically find in someone his size.That combines to create one of the more unique defensive prospects in the draft, with the size and reach of a power forward or center, but the perimeter foot speed to switch onto guards


Zinger
With that said, it's important to remember that Porzingis is still only 19 years old, not turning 20 until after this year's draft (in August). He has two years of high-level experience already playing in the toughest domestic league in the world outside of the NBA, and is still only scratching the surface of how good he can become. His unique combination of size, skills and mobility at 7-1 gives him incredible potential to grow into in time, even if more-so than any other prospect in the draft possibly, he needs to land in the right situation in the draft.

Isaac
Jonathan Isaac is an interesting case. He's one of the more unique, and possibly impactful, defensive prospects in this draft, with a combination of playmaking, length, athleticism, effort, and versatility that you don't find very often. That kind of role, especially i he can make that three-point shot a consistent part of his game to spread the floor, is an incredibly valuable one for teams to fill, especially as more and more coaches want to switch anything they can on the perimeter. Isaac fits that archetype to a T.


:nod: :nod: :nod:
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Re: The case for Jonathan Isaac 

Post#715 » by Statlanta » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:21 am

1 of the most intriguing things about getting Isaac is that the 4 spot is one of the most hardest positions to get right in the NBA. Some teams put wings, some put traditional big men and others have that tweener guy to slot in that spot. Getting Isaac means we are getting depth/innovating our roster towards that position and with the NBA landscape trending there with demigods roaming that position(Draymond, LeBron, Porzingis, KD, Giannis) I feel giddy in such position.

Compared to the 2017 FA list of 4's I'd rather roll the dice on Isaac's upside then get today's 4s especially when you look at the market/potential draft targets at the other positions.
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