The Zach Lavine Problem

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Maybe you can use LaVine's injury as an excuse to sit him for a good portion of the year and slowly bring him along.

Then you can extend him for something less than the max because it would be a risk for teams to bid up his RFA status. Kind of how Milwaukee is probably going to extend Jabari Parker for much less than the Max.

This. He tore his ACL in February. He may not even be ready by the start of the season.

We have every incentive to bring him along slowly.


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I think the Derrick Rose 18 month rehab/redshirt has confused people on what a typical recovery is like.

[Chi town]

Maybe you can use LaVine's injury as an excuse to sit him for a good portion of the year and slowly bring him along.

Then you can extend him for something less than the max because it would be a risk for teams to bid up his RFA status. Kind of how Milwaukee is probably going to extend Jabari Parker for much less than the Max.

This. He tore his ACL in February. He may not even be ready by the start of the season.

We have every incentive to bring him along slowly.


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I think the Derrick Rose 18 month rehab/redshirt has confused people on what a typical recovery is like.

He will miss half the season. Hopefully we see him return to form post ASB.

[TheSuzerain]

Guys listen to the Minny fans. This guy is very good.

I'd much rather max him than Jimmy in 2 years. He's already a better scorer than Jimmy will ever be. Plus we got 2 good prospects in Lauri and Dunn? No brainer and exactly what the board has been clamoring for.

Thibs love for Jimmy made him overpay. No other team was offering anything close. We now have flexibility, youth and potential. What did we have at this time yesterday?

Jimmy scores with more volume than Lavine on better efficiency. And that was before Lavine did his knee.

This time yesterday, we had an All-NBA player in his prime and flexibility.

Flexibility for what? Some mystery free agent that would never come here?

That differs from our current "flexibility" how?

In fact, it's quite clear our attractiveness to free agents has gone down in the last 24 hours.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

A sampling of ACL tears and returns:

Al Harrington - Jan 25th - Oct 31 2002 9 months
Al Jefferson - Feb 10th - Oct 28th 2009 8.5 months
Corey Brewer - Dec 3rd - Oct 28th 2009 11 months
Jamal Crawford - July 17 2001 - Mar 3 2002 7.5 months
Iman Shumpert - Apr 27 2012 - Jan 17 2013 9 months
Derrick Rose - Apr 28 2012 - Oct 29 2013 18 months

[DJhitek]

I do think they take a conservative approach with Lavine but I don't foresee that time table exceeding beyond the end of the year.

[Ice Man]

Jabari was 11 months. Almost everybody comes back between 8 and 11 months.

[Midw35t]

I think you guys will be pleasantly surprised with both LaVine (when healthy) and Dunn. I'm personally very torn on this trade, as I was a huge advocate for the potential of both these players, and thought their development would be a huge plus for us contending when GSW and LeBron declined. They are almost the perfect compliments in the backcourt, and you now can control them for 5 and 7 years respectively.

LaVine has one of the smoothest shots in the NBA, just you wait. He gets his shot off with zero effort, and is a prime candidate to join the 50/40/90 club sooner rather than later. He will be a top 3pt shooter in this league, no doubt about it. His decision making/playmaking and defense definitely need some work, but he is only 21 years old. His ball handling is great, his athleticism is and still will be top notch. This allows him to attack the basket with ease, which will only improve as his BBIQ does. The guy is calm under pressure, and not afraid of taking the big shots. Maybe most importantly is his work ethic. All reports shine a light on LaVine being a gym rat, an active community member, and a stand-up dude. You'll be glad you have him.

As for Dunn, I wanted him last draft and I still love his potential. I do not believe he received a fair shake this season. Thibs kept him on a very tight leash, which combined with spot minutes, did not allow Dunn to develop as much as he could have. If we moved Rubio and handed the reigns over to Dunn then I firmly believe he would have won last year's ROY. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he also had numerous flashes of a top talent. His ball handling and decision making do need to improve, but I am of the opinion that he tried (and was almost forced) to do too much because he had so few chances to make an impression. Give him the starting job, let him take his lumps, and I believe he will not disappoint offensively. As for defense, my god, he was easily our best perimeter defender last year. The guy fights over screens, can legitimately lock down 1-2, plays 3's well, and he fights like a SOB in the post. His anticipation on passes is elite, as are his hands when straight stripping or poking the ball from the opposing dribbler. Averaged 2.1steals and 1 block per 36 minutes as a PG. That's elite company. Like LaVine, all reports on Dunn are the same, great guy and an absolute gym rat who has persevered through a ton in his young life.

Give Dunn/LaVine the keys in your backcourt, and watch how well they work together.

All in all, I do not buy the narrative that the masses are spewing about Chicago being fleeced. Yes, you will need to decide on paying Zach, but we may lose Jimmy in two years. It may be a larger gamble on our end. At least you didn't find yourselves in a Durant or George situation.

The Lauri Markannen pick is debatable, but if his shooting does translate then he and Zach will do wonders for Hoiberg's floor spacing system.

In my opinion, the most questionable trade still remains that awful trade with OKC this season. Dunn/LaVine/McDermott/Lauri/Lopez would have been fun to watch for stints.

[GRADEN]

It's scary because what if he comes along slowly after injury and plays good first 20-25 games and then kills it after ASB and has like this type of season:

21ppg 5rpg 3apg 1.2spg 46-39-85 in 63games

Which honestly is totally my expectation for him.

So what is that value???? Is it 20 million per Or in that max range.... answer is probably in that middle 4/100 domain right.., and now we are right back where we were I think ???? And as a RFA whose to say we even want a 100m contract during the early part of the rebuild???

[TheSuzerain]

The answer is to trade him for a valuable future 1st like Philly did with MCW.

[ATRAIN53]

He's not really a problem, I like the kid and he's got potential and personality.
Fans even know who he is thanks to that dunk contest.

But again like with Markannen - he's always going to be compared to Butler and that's not going to be easy.

I'm surprised to hear MN fans say they would have rather given us Wiggins because Wiggins for Butler would have gone over much better with the fans.

Wiggins get to the FT stripe and we just gavce away 8 FTA per game in Butler....

Whats the 'thing' LaVine has over Wiggins you MN fans see?

[MC3]

Go watch Lavine highlights from last season. It should be clear @atrain53

[Midw35t]

He's not really a problem, I like the kid and he's got potential and personality.
Fans even know who he is thanks to that dunk contest.

But again like with Markannen - he's always going to be compared to Butler and that's not going to be easy.

I'm surprised to hear MN fans say they would have rather given us Wiggins because Wiggins for Butler would have gone over much better with the fans.

Wiggins get to the FT stripe and we just gavce away 8 FTA per game in Butler....

Whats the 'thing' LaVine has over Wiggins you MN fans see?

For one, he was our only real floor spacer, and an elite one at that. Many viewed LaVine/Butler being a much better fit because Wiggins 3pt shot is spotty and he prefers to score in the Iso. Wiggins/Butler are rather redundant on offense. I understand why we moved LaVine, as he is coming off an injury in a contract year, but there is a real question about the fit now and how we are going to space the floor. LaVine could create the 3, or catch and shoot. We need those players around KAT more than we need ISO scorers. Butler may be a godsend when it comes to unlocking Wiggins' defense potential though, that is promising.

Further, Wiggins being involved likely meant the draft picks would be kept out of the trade. I'd assume the trade would have been Wiggins + Rubio or Dunn. Keeping #7 to add another top talent to Towns/LaVine/Butler would have been very nice for us.

[SkyhookinUrMom]

Minesotta fan here, I would have preferred to give you Wiggins before Lavine

Hey, care to share more on this?

Well, to be honest at first I didnt think he had much substance to his game. Very flashy, fun player to watch but streaky and tragic on defense, I wasnt a believer.
The thing that convinced me is how much he progressed EVERY SINGLE season. He has become a VERY good shooter and scorer: automatic in the catch&shoot, pull up game, 3p + range, beautiful smooth fast release shot. Can handle a little and create his own shot with ease, not very creative with the dribble but he makes up for it with his ridiculous speed and first step. Deadly in transition and potential as a slasher. All reports say hes a gym rat and certainly hes got much bigger since he joined the league. On the offensive end he is a joy to watch, hes got better at shot selection too, and despite the looks he has been very coachable. On offense he is everything you want of a SG.

Defense is another story, but with his physical tools and his effort he should figure it out sonner or later. The effort is there and that is key, he just lacks the concepts (can be frustrating to watch).

I dont know, I might be wrong but to me he will have better career than Wiggins. He is allstar material.

[chrispatrick]

A sampling of ACL tears and returns:

Al Harrington - Jan 25th - Oct 31 2002 9 months
Al Jefferson - Feb 10th - Oct 28th 2009 8.5 months
Corey Brewer - Dec 3rd - Oct 28th 2009 11 months
Jamal Crawford - July 17 2001 - Mar 3 2002 7.5 months
Iman Shumpert - Apr 27 2012 - Jan 17 2013 9 months
Derrick Rose - Apr 28 2012 - Oct 29 2013 18 months

Thank you, and on top of that a couple of those first 3 dates would have been sooner if the season started earlier.

[Zipserino]

It's scary because what if he comes along slowly after injury and plays good first 20-25 games and then kills it after ASB and has like this type of season:

21ppg 5rpg 3apg 1.2spg 46-39-85 in 63games

Which honestly is totally my expectation for him.

So what is that value???? Is it 20 million per Or in that max range.... answer is probably in that middle 4/100 domain right.., and now we are right back where we were I think ???? And as a RFA whose to say we even want a 100m contract during the early part of the rebuild???

If we'll be under the salary floor, that's not a problem.

[TheSuzerain]

Every cap dollar spent on Zach Lavine is a dollar we can't use to absorb bad contracts and accrue draft assets.

Every game Zach Lavine wins for us going forward hurts our draft position and our chances of landing a superstar player.

Juice up his value as the first option and then deal him.

[Poohdini1]

The Bulls traded up in Lavines draft, passed on him, and then talked up trading for him after he's torn his ACL and he's a year away from FA even though they gave up an All-NBA talent and a mid first to do it. All of us hope we could be this bad at a job that has this much pay and status.

Yup nothing better than trading solid young guys like Harris and Nurkic to not only pass on Lavine but draft Doug LOL

LONG LIVE MCBUCKETS

Watch on YouTube

[Hangtime84]

A sampling of ACL tears and returns:

Al Harrington - Jan 25th - Oct 31 2002 9 months
Al Jefferson - Feb 10th - Oct 28th 2009 8.5 months
Corey Brewer - Dec 3rd - Oct 28th 2009 11 months
Jamal Crawford - July 17 2001 - Mar 3 2002 7.5 months
Iman Shumpert - Apr 27 2012 - Jan 17 2013 9 months
Derrick Rose - Apr 28 2012 - Oct 29 2013 18 months

I'm thinking a full 12 months he'll be out. We probably not gonna get Lavine on a decent deal and just trade him.

[Poohdini1]

In all seriousness Lavine is a very smooth player, 50/40/90 potential if that jumper continues to develop. Should be ok after the ACL as long as he avoids a re-tear or meniscus issues.

[FecesOfDeath]

Derrick Rose was pretty amazing before the ACL wasn't he?

He was amazing after the ACL recovery and before the meniscus tear against Portland. Remember all the dunks and acrobatic layups he was displaying in the preseason and those 9 regular season games before the meniscus tear?

It was the meniscus tear that affected his athleticism and quickness more than his ACL tear did. Remember how he rarely dunked, and when he did, it was off two feet, after he recovered from his meniscus injury?

Lavine will be fine, just like Jamal Crawford has been fine with a long, productive career after tearing his ACL back in 2001.