Official: Jimmy Butler, #16 to Minnesota for Lavine, Dunn, #7 - merged/Justin Patton injured

[Jcool0]

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[Red8911]

This FO is obsessed with awful point guards.

1st Grant. Then Payne. Now Dunn.

Wonder who's next?

Yeah I don't understand they keep making bad decision after another with that and they don't stop,they keep going. Dunn is very similar to grant and Payne,not their games but general talent. None of these guys can really run the point,which is why rondo should just come back. Rondo will help the rest of the roster get their shots up,the others don't know how to pass the ball.

[Ralphb07]

Question: Has a team trading the perceived "superstar" ever also included a first round pick in the deal?

IDK but Kaplan said that Thibs didn't want to include Lavine. He was trying to even absorb Rondo to save the Bulls money but Bulls said that Lavine had to be in deal to happen. Thibs gave his counter which was 16 and no Rondo.

Anyone that was thinking Brooklyn two picks are going to be disappointed but I spent a whole damn year trying to chill the expectations. What fans/media and actual NBA GMs thought as being fair was totally different. Last year they didn't get offered a top 4 pick and the the same this year.

I get people are upset and will never sway someone but the Bulls indeed took the best offer that was made for Jimmy.

Obviously we'll never know for sure, but I'm having trouble believing that Thibs was willing to walk away from the Butler trade over the 16th pick. LaVine is injured, Dunn had a poor rookie season, and they didn't have a top 3 pick. I just fail to see where their leverage is.

I think Thibs knew that Gar has a history of adding additional picks if he wants to make a trade bad enough and took advantage of that weakness.

It's not hard to believe. Bulls fan hate Dunn but Thibs not so much. So while the board thinks he's nothing Thibs feels he's a valuable player they were giving up. Thibs loved Lavine and imo the injury is the only reason why he moved him. I know this because lady year Thibs in fact walked away from the offer we got yesterday .

[League Circles]

We should still take on Deng for future picks.

I disagree. Contract way too long, LA picks will be way too poor to justify this.

One of the main points of a rebuild via the draft is to have good youth on their rookie deals still so you can add max FAs to them before blowing up over the cap. We can't just say we're gonna be bad and screw FA til we draft a superstar. We gotta try to be good with our youth before they need extentions, and have max cap space to do it. Lavine is already close to FA so atbthe latest, we should plan for the max capspace we can spare while Dunn (and Lauri) are still cheap. Dunn just finished year 1 and if he develops he'll cost money after year 4, so we gotta make a big FA splash in summer 2019 latest. Deng goes beyond then.

I'm only interest in deals 2 years or less.

[AirP.]

Not really. They already have more than enough young players. The idea is to get incredibly lucky for a generational talent.

I am surprised you think they need more point guards.

This stuff of just making something up and then being mad it didn't happen is bizarre.

You wouldn't take Russell over every single young PG on the Bulls roster right now with it costing you D.Wade and paying Deng 18 mil a year for 3 more years? Chicago still has to get to the salary minimum.

I liked Payne when OKC got him, soured greatly when I saw him not give a damn on the bench during games in OKC and Chi, I had thought a trade may wake him up but it didn't. Grant looks to be heading towards being a solid backup PG and Dunn, we'll have to see what he does when he's not behind so many other options on the court.

I understand the need for a generational talent but I don't see how Russell stops Chicago from doing that. Rebuild mode also means get as many assets as possible(for future trades). Grant nor Payne are anywhere near as good as Russell, we'll have to see with Payne. I'm not sure either of them are better then Dinwiddie who the Bulls released last year.

By the way, this came out today...

Read on Twitter

I can't think of any team willing to part with a better young player then Russell in a salary dump, can you?

[League Circles]

Question: Has a team trading the perceived "superstar" ever also included a first round pick in the deal?

Butler is not a superstar and he's going to decline really fast and in a few years be a worse player than Lavine who is the rising all-star claiber talent. Thibs is going to play Butler 40min per game and soon he will get his injuries which is good for the Bulls since they traded away injury prone player. And keep thinking over the 16th pick, it seemed garbage anyway since the quality of draft prospects for this year drops after #10.

All-NBA player. That's a superstar. If you wont call him that, then call him a top 15 player and ask yourself the same question. Justifying a bad trade based on the quality of the draft (and most people thought it was pretty deep draft) isn't a good reason for getting raped on a trade.

Lots of the all nba guys aren't superstars IMO:

Gobert
IT
Butler
Derozan
Draymond
Jimmy
Deandre Jordan

To me a superstar is generally a guy that every GM would happily give a supermax deal to regardless of roster makeup.

[bad knees]

Bulls should have declined to take Dunn in the trade, and replaced him instead with a future MIN 1st, in 2020 or later when Jimmy will likely be long gone. And kept 16. Then draft DSJ at 7 and DJ Wilson at 16.

DSJ plus DJ plus a future pick is much better than Dunn and The Markksman. DSJ > Dunn, and imo DJ is better than or equal to LF. DJ plays much better defense and is a better finisher at the rim, and can shoot almost as well.

[TheSuzerain]

We should still take on Deng for future picks.

I disagree. Contract way too long, LA picks will be way too poor to justify this.

One of the main points of a rebuild via the draft is to have good youth on their rookie deals still so you can add max FAs to them before blowing up over the cap. We can't just say we're gonna be bad and screw FA til we draft a superstar. We gotta try to be good with our youth before they need extentions, and have max cap space to do it. Lavine is already close to FA so atbthe latest, we should plan for the max capspace we can spare while Dunn (and Lauri) are still cheap. Dunn just finished year 1 and if he develops he'll cost money after year 4, so we gotta make a big FA splash in summer 2019 latest. Deng goes beyond then.

I'm only interest in deals 2 years or less.

You seem to be operating under the illusion that we are a top pick in 2018 away from having a nice young core.

You are wrong. We will need to tank for years to assemble a nice young core. In the meantime, we should bring in negative-value contracts like Deng and charge a fee for our services as the NBA Dump.

[Red8911]

We should still take on Deng for future picks.

I disagree. Contract way too long, LA picks will be way too poor to justify this.

One of the main points of a rebuild via the draft is to have good youth on their rookie deals still so you can add max FAs to them before blowing up over the cap. We can't just say we're gonna be bad and screw FA til we draft a superstar. We gotta try to be good with our youth before they need extentions, and have max cap space to do it. Lavine is already close to FA so atbthe latest, we should plan for the max capspace we can spare while Dunn (and Lauri) are still cheap. Dunn just finished year 1 and if he develops he'll cost money after year 4, so we gotta make a big FA splash in summer 2019 latest. Deng goes beyond then.

I'm only interest in deals 2 years or less.

The best plan would be not to over stretch this rebuild. Best case scenario would be lauri and some of the others look good,then add another high pick next year and finally hopefully sign a big name free agent. Meaning this rebuilding should only last one year. We already have enough young guys with potential,again if they turn out worthy enough it will definitely speed up the process.

[WestsideResider]

I'm excited about Dunn. He's already our second best PG.

[League Circles]

Not really. They already have more than enough young players. The idea is to get incredibly lucky for a generational talent.

I am surprised you think they need more point guards.

This stuff of just making something up and then being mad it didn't happen is bizarre.

You wouldn't take Russell over every single young PG on the Bulls roster right now with it costing you D.Wade and paying Deng 18 mil a year for 3 more years? Chicago still has to get to the salary minimum.

I liked Payne when OKC got him, soured greatly when I saw him not give a damn on the bench during games in OKC and Chi, I had thought a trade may wake him up but it didn't. Grant looks to be heading towards being a solid backup PG and Dunn, we'll have to see what he does when he's not behind so many other options on the court.

I understand the need for a generational talent but I don't see how Russell stops Chicago from doing that. Rebuild mode also means get as many assets as possible(for future trades). Grant nor Payne are anywhere near as good as Russell, we'll have to see with Payne. I'm not sure either of them are better then Dinwiddie who the Bulls released last year.

By the way, this came out today...

Read on Twitter

I can't think of any team willing to part with a better young player then Russell in a salary dump, can you?

Russel is too old and too much of a snitch. Dunn is much more appealing. The idea of a future asset is in case this round of youngsters doesn't worl out well we have reinforcments. I don't like the idea of excessive loading up of current youth, and hate the idea of russel in general. Or of mozgovs long terrible deal with him.

[Jeffster81]

Question: Has a team trading the perceived "superstar" ever also included a first round pick in the deal?

Butler is not a superstar and he's going to decline really fast and in a few years be a worse player than Lavine who is the rising all-star claiber talent. Thibs is going to play Butler 40min per game and soon he will get his injuries which is good for the Bulls since they traded away injury prone player. And keep thinking over the 16th pick, it seemed garbage anyway since the quality of draft prospects for this year drops after #10.

All-NBA player. That's a superstar. If you wont call him that, then call him a top 15 player and ask yourself the same question. Justifying a bad trade based on the quality of the draft (and most people thought it was pretty deep draft) isn't a good reason for getting raped on a trade.

In terms of the definition (superstar is defined as: a high profile and extremely successful performer or athlete) then yes Butler is a superstar. But in reality, he is a superstar but not a game changer like an MJ, LBJ, or a Wade. I like the comparison to Paul Pierce.

Holding onto Butler any longer and the offers get worse. I doubt the Bulls get Lavine/Dunn #7 next year, not with Butler heading towards a max extension. Should the Bulls hang onto Butler and run the risk of him getting injured and ruining any and all trade value? The time to trade Butler was LAST YEAR. The Bulls did not get raped, they did not make out like bandits but they didn't getting raped. Dunn look like the typical rookie under Thibs, so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt under a less tyrannical coach. Lavine has shown flashes of his abilities, health is now the issue. And the draft pick is a crap shoot, any ways, regardless of what player they took.

It sucks trading Butler, but I'm holding out on judging this trade until this time next year.

[League Circles]

We should still take on Deng for future picks.

I disagree. Contract way too long, LA picks will be way too poor to justify this.

One of the main points of a rebuild via the draft is to have good youth on their rookie deals still so you can add max FAs to them before blowing up over the cap. We can't just say we're gonna be bad and screw FA til we draft a superstar. We gotta try to be good with our youth before they need extentions, and have max cap space to do it. Lavine is already close to FA so atbthe latest, we should plan for the max capspace we can spare while Dunn (and Lauri) are still cheap. Dunn just finished year 1 and if he develops he'll cost money after year 4, so we gotta make a big FA splash in summer 2019 latest. Deng goes beyond then.

I'm only interest in deals 2 years or less.

You seem to be operating under the illusion that we are a top pick in 2018 away from having a nice young core.

You are wrong. We will need to tank for years to assemble a nice young core. In the meantime, we should bring in negative-value contracts like Deng and charge a fee for our services as the NBA Dump.

No we're a high pick and or a couple free agents away from having a nice. Core. **** an 8 year plan. To me the essence of any rebuild os obviously get talented youth, have enough (not all, just enough, like 2 or 3 guys) impress and get the team decent, then add FAs while they're still on rookie deals.

Perpetual tanking is terrible. You have to have synergy.

[TheSuzerain]

We should still take on Deng for future picks.

I disagree. Contract way too long, LA picks will be way too poor to justify this.

One of the main points of a rebuild via the draft is to have good youth on their rookie deals still so you can add max FAs to them before blowing up over the cap. We can't just say we're gonna be bad and screw FA til we draft a superstar. We gotta try to be good with our youth before they need extentions, and have max cap space to do it. Lavine is already close to FA so atbthe latest, we should plan for the max capspace we can spare while Dunn (and Lauri) are still cheap. Dunn just finished year 1 and if he develops he'll cost money after year 4, so we gotta make a big FA splash in summer 2019 latest. Deng goes beyond then.

I'm only interest in deals 2 years or less.

The best plan would be not to over stretch this rebuild. Best case scenario would be lauri and some of the others look good,then add another high pick next year and finally hopefully sign a big name free agent. Meaning this rebuilding should only last one year. We already have enough young guys with potential,again if they turn out worthy enough it will definitely speed up the process.

That is the worst plan possible.

We have zero players with 2 way potential at present. It's going to take time to acquire those guys.

[TheSuzerain]

I disagree. Contract way too long, LA picks will be way too poor to justify this.

One of the main points of a rebuild via the draft is to have good youth on their rookie deals still so you can add max FAs to them before blowing up over the cap. We can't just say we're gonna be bad and screw FA til we draft a superstar. We gotta try to be good with our youth before they need extentions, and have max cap space to do it. Lavine is already close to FA so atbthe latest, we should plan for the max capspace we can spare while Dunn (and Lauri) are still cheap. Dunn just finished year 1 and if he develops he'll cost money after year 4, so we gotta make a big FA splash in summer 2019 latest. Deng goes beyond then.

I'm only interest in deals 2 years or less.

You seem to be operating under the illusion that we are a top pick in 2018 away from having a nice young core.

You are wrong. We will need to tank for years to assemble a nice young core. In the meantime, we should bring in negative-value contracts like Deng and charge a fee for our services as the NBA Dump.

No we're a high pick and or a couple free agents away from having a nice. Core. **** an 8 year plan. To me the essence of any rebuild os obviously get talented youth, have enough (not all, just enough, like 2 or 3 guys) impress and get the team decent, then add FAs while they're still on rookie deals.

Perpetual tanking is terrible. You have to have synergy.

We signed up for a perpetual tank. Only chance for the quick rebuild was to deal Jimmy for at least 1 premium rebuilding piece. That would have sped up the process, but we didn't do that.

And because we didn't speed up the process, our middling young assets are less valuable as we won't be able to build a core while they are still cheap.

We are essentially starting from nothing.

[bad knees]

I can hardly believe the people who think that this rebuild is going to only take 2-3 years. Count on 6 or 7. And at that point, we'll hope to be as good as we were last year. Rookies always suck for their first several years, unless they're a truly generational talent. And no good FAs are coming here until we get good again.

[AirP.]

Russel is too old and too much of a snitch. Dunn is much more appealing. The idea of a future asset is in case this round of youngsters doesn't worl out well we have reinforcments. I don't like the idea of excessive loading up of current youth, and hate the idea of russel in general. Or of mozgovs long terrible deal with him.

Chicago could have had both Russell and Dunn, separate trades. Snitching... I think he's still growing up. I'm not high on Payne and probably would put him in a trade package and try to get another young piece or draft pick.

Mozgov or Deng's contract... Deng would have been a good vet to have around the younger players, yes you'd have 3 years of a bad contract but as of now you have 1 year of Wade's contract. The Bulls have to meet a minimum team salary anyways so why does it really matter who's being paid when you're tanking as long as you can add more assets?

[Ralphb07]

In regards to taking on future contracts for assets. The assets are probably 1st round picks the Bulls will be trying to acquire.

[TheGOATRises007]

We need some serious luck in the 2018 or 2019 draft.

Otherwise, I think we won't see the playoffs for 5+ years.

[Nucky Thompson]

I'm excited about Dunn. He's already our second best PG.

He stinks