Official: Jimmy Butler, #16 to Minnesota for Lavine, Dunn, #7 - merged/Justin Patton injured

[League Circles]

I disagree. Contract way too long, LA picks will be way too poor to justify this.

One of the main points of a rebuild via the draft is to have good youth on their rookie deals still so you can add max FAs to them before blowing up over the cap. We can't just say we're gonna be bad and screw FA til we draft a superstar. We gotta try to be good with our youth before they need extentions, and have max cap space to do it. Lavine is already close to FA so atbthe latest, we should plan for the max capspace we can spare while Dunn (and Lauri) are still cheap. Dunn just finished year 1 and if he develops he'll cost money after year 4, so we gotta make a big FA splash in summer 2019 latest. Deng goes beyond then.

I'm only interest in deals 2 years or less.

The best plan would be not to over stretch this rebuild. Best case scenario would be lauri and some of the others look good,then add another high pick next year and finally hopefully sign a big name free agent. Meaning this rebuilding should only last one year. We already have enough young guys with potential,again if they turn out worthy enough it will definitely speed up the process.

That is the worst plan possible.

We have zero players with 2 way potential at present. It's going to take time to acquire those guys.

Dunn definitely has 2 way potential IMO. You don't need every guy to be 2 way. We can grab another 2 way in next year's draft.

Portis, Niko, Grant all have some potential to be 2 way IMO. Valentine and lauri won't and lavine probably not, but I'd be looking to trade lavine later this season.

A core is like 2 or 3 guys IMO, not 8. Once you have 2 or 3 guys it's time to run with them, add the best FAs and trades you can and coach and compete. Its unrealistic to think we'll hit on all of them, but let's hope that half of these guys are quality players/assets by next summer:

Main hopes:
Niko (yes I know he's older but I still group him here)
Lauri
LaVine
Dunn
2018 Bulls #1

Lesser hopes:
Portis
Valentine

We've got to hope and try for 3 of those 7 guys to be appealing enough and on the upswing to olay with that one or two high quality FAs want to join in 2018 and 2019 summer.

[Red8911]

I disagree. Contract way too long, LA picks will be way too poor to justify this.

One of the main points of a rebuild via the draft is to have good youth on their rookie deals still so you can add max FAs to them before blowing up over the cap. We can't just say we're gonna be bad and screw FA til we draft a superstar. We gotta try to be good with our youth before they need extentions, and have max cap space to do it. Lavine is already close to FA so atbthe latest, we should plan for the max capspace we can spare while Dunn (and Lauri) are still cheap. Dunn just finished year 1 and if he develops he'll cost money after year 4, so we gotta make a big FA splash in summer 2019 latest. Deng goes beyond then.

I'm only interest in deals 2 years or less.

The best plan would be not to over stretch this rebuild. Best case scenario would be lauri and some of the others look good,then add another high pick next year and finally hopefully sign a big name free agent. Meaning this rebuilding should only last one year. We already have enough young guys with potential,again if they turn out worthy enough it will definitely speed up the process.

That is the worst plan possible.

We have zero players with 2 way potential at present. It's going to take time to acquire those guys.

No it's a good plan,how many years you want to rebuild? If it takes more than 2-3 years,then imo its failed... They already got young guys that they like. Now obviously things need to go the bulls way and these guys need to ball out. If they do,it's a good thing and this shouldn't take too long. Lauri,Dunn,lavine are all high picks,then we have niko,Portis,valentine who have potential to get alot better. If everything works out I don't see a problem here. Use next years draft to hopefully get a stud and then boom,sign a free agent and compete again.

[TheSuzerain]

The best plan would be not to over stretch this rebuild. Best case scenario would be lauri and some of the others look good,then add another high pick next year and finally hopefully sign a big name free agent. Meaning this rebuilding should only last one year. We already have enough young guys with potential,again if they turn out worthy enough it will definitely speed up the process.

That is the worst plan possible.

We have zero players with 2 way potential at present. It's going to take time to acquire those guys.

No it's a good plan,how many years you want to rebuild? If it takes more than 2-3 years,then imo its failed... They already got young guys that they like. Now obviously things need to go the bulls way and these guys need to ball out. If they do,it's a good thing and this shouldn't take too long. Lauri,Dunn,lavine are all high picks,then we have niko,Portis,valentine who have potential to get alot better. If everything works out I don't see a problem here. Use next years draft to hopefully get a stud and then boom,sign a free agent and compete again.

The 2-3 year rebuild plan has already failed. It failed the moment they traded Jimmy Butler for Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn, and Lauri Markkanen. It's dead and buried.

[WestsideResider]

I'm excited about Dunn. He's already our second best PG.

He stinks

Not ready to write him off after one season. Especially playing under Thibs as a rookie.

Even at his stinkiest he's still better than MCW, Grant and Payne.

[TheSuzerain]

I'm excited about Dunn. He's already our second best PG.

He stinks

Not ready to write him off after one season. Especially playing under Thibs as a rookie.

Even at his stinkiest he's still better than MCW, Grant and Payne.

He is worse than Rondo, Grant, and Payne.

[League Circles]

The best plan would be not to over stretch this rebuild. Best case scenario would be lauri and some of the others look good,then add another high pick next year and finally hopefully sign a big name free agent. Meaning this rebuilding should only last one year. We already have enough young guys with potential,again if they turn out worthy enough it will definitely speed up the process.

That is the worst plan possible.

We have zero players with 2 way potential at present. It's going to take time to acquire those guys.

No it's a good plan,how many years you want to rebuild? If it takes more than 2-3 years,then imo its failed... They already got young guys that they like. Now obviously things need to go the bulls way and these guys need to ball out. If they do,it's a good thing and this shouldn't take too long. Lauri,Dunn,lavine are all high picks,then we have niko,Portis,valentine who have potential to get alot better. If everything works out I don't see a problem here. Use next years draft to hopefully get a stud and then boom,sign a free agent and compete again.

Exactly. With what we already have, another 2 lottery picks of our own and 2 summers (really three summers of free agency) should be enough. Saying you want or plan for it to take longer than that is just like planning to fail.

[Gant]

I just listened to an interview with Danny Ainge in which (interestingly) he said he thought MInnesota gave up a lot. He said Minnesota turned down LaVine and Dunn for Butler last year, and this year they gave up those two plus Markkanen. He thought the trade was beneficial to both teams.

Bulls stuff is at about 6:30 here:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/06/23/celtics-danny-ainge-nba-draft-rumors-trades-toucher-and-rich/

[TheSuzerain]

That is the worst plan possible.

We have zero players with 2 way potential at present. It's going to take time to acquire those guys.

No it's a good plan,how many years you want to rebuild? If it takes more than 2-3 years,then imo its failed... They already got young guys that they like. Now obviously things need to go the bulls way and these guys need to ball out. If they do,it's a good thing and this shouldn't take too long. Lauri,Dunn,lavine are all high picks,then we have niko,Portis,valentine who have potential to get alot better. If everything works out I don't see a problem here. Use next years draft to hopefully get a stud and then boom,sign a free agent and compete again.

Exactly. With what we already have, another 2 lottery picks of our own and 2 summers (really three summers of free agency) should be enough. Saying you want or plan for it to take longer than that is just like planning to fail.

That's exactly what we should be doing.

We should be planning for Dunn, Lavine, Portis, Valentine, and Payne to fail to become elite NBA players. Because it's overwhelmingly likely that they all will fail to reach that level. We'll be lucky if one of them becomes a playoff-level starter.

This should be a Hinkie style rebuild. Trying to shortcut that will only prolong the process. We need to pick at the top of the draft as many times as possible over the next 5 years.

[Bulls_Fan]

That is the worst plan possible.

We have zero players with 2 way potential at present. It's going to take time to acquire those guys.

No it's a good plan,how many years you want to rebuild? If it takes more than 2-3 years,then imo its failed... They already got young guys that they like. Now obviously things need to go the bulls way and these guys need to ball out. If they do,it's a good thing and this shouldn't take too long. Lauri,Dunn,lavine are all high picks,then we have niko,Portis,valentine who have potential to get alot better. If everything works out I don't see a problem here. Use next years draft to hopefully get a stud and then boom,sign a free agent and compete again.

The 2-3 year rebuild plan has already failed. It failed the moment they traded Jimmy Butler for Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn, and Lauri Markkanen. It's dead and buried.

You have zero idea how long this rebuild will take. If we get lucky the next two drafts and draft total studs it can be a quick turnaround or could be a protracted one who knows.

[jnrjr79]

KC Johnson (Chicago Tribune) confirmed today that the Wolves offer was absolutely the best offer Bulls got for Jimmy Butler.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM mobile app

Confirmed with whom?

Nobody could have that info other than someone in the Bulls' FO, so presumably one of them.

[TheSuzerain]

No it's a good plan,how many years you want to rebuild? If it takes more than 2-3 years,then imo its failed... They already got young guys that they like. Now obviously things need to go the bulls way and these guys need to ball out. If they do,it's a good thing and this shouldn't take too long. Lauri,Dunn,lavine are all high picks,then we have niko,Portis,valentine who have potential to get alot better. If everything works out I don't see a problem here. Use next years draft to hopefully get a stud and then boom,sign a free agent and compete again.

The 2-3 year rebuild plan has already failed. It failed the moment they traded Jimmy Butler for Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn, and Lauri Markkanen. It's dead and buried.

You have zero idea how long this rebuild will take. If we get lucky the next two drafts and draft total studs it can be a quick turnaround or could be a protracted one who knows.

The point is, there's nobody on the roster at present who warrants us not tanking for the next 3-4 years.

And given the Bulls trash reputation among players in the league, there will be no Free Agent savior.

[The Senator]

I just listened to an interview with Danny Ainge in which (interestingly) he said he thought MInnesota gave up a lot. He said Minnesota turned down LaVine and Dunn for Butler last year, and this year they gave up those two plus Markkanen. He thought the trade was beneficial to both teams.

Bulls stuff is at about 6:30 here:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/06/23/celtics-danny-ainge-nba-draft-rumors-trades-toucher-and-rich/

Ainge probably would think that it would have been too much to have swapped the #7 alone for Butler.

He stinks

Not ready to write him off after one season. Especially playing under Thibs as a rookie.

Even at his stinkiest he's still better than MCW, Grant and Payne.

He is worse than Rondo, Grant, and Payne.

While I'll believe Rondo and Grant have been better, I can't see how he's worse than Payne. I mostly wrote Dunn off, but I'd prefer him to Payne, who I think is somewhere around Marquis Teague and JL III in terms of potential.

[TheSuzerain]

KC Johnson (Chicago Tribune) confirmed today that the Wolves offer was absolutely the best offer Bulls got for Jimmy Butler.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM mobile app

Confirmed with whom?

Nobody could have that info other than someone in the Bulls' FO, so presumably one of them.

Ok. So we are considering it news that the Bulls' FO said that the Wolves offer was absolutely the best?

Am I supposed to be persuaded by that in any way?

[bennjuiced34]

KC Johnson (Chicago Tribune) confirmed today that the Wolves offer was absolutely the best offer Bulls got for Jimmy Butler.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM mobile app

Confirmed with whom?

Nobody could have that info other than someone in the Bulls' FO, so presumably one of them.

Zach Lowe confirmed what K.C. reported about the Suns, Celtics and Nuggets offers. And no other reporters are refuting this or sayin the Bulls left better deals on the table.

By now you'd think if someone had info that there was a better deal, it would've come out by now right? Especially since the Butler rumors have been circulating for over a year now.

[jnrjr79]

Confirmed with whom?

Nobody could have that info other than someone in the Bulls' FO, so presumably one of them.

Ok. So we are considering it news that the Bulls' FO said that the Wolves offer was absolutely the best?

Am I supposed to be persuaded by that in any way?

Oh, no, I could easily see Gar lying and saying it was their best offer when in reality they had a better offer last year. I was just observing that they are the only people who know what all of the offers were, so it's not like an exec from a rival team could confirm what the Bulls' best offer was or wasn't.

[TheSuzerain]

Confirmed with whom?

Nobody could have that info other than someone in the Bulls' FO, so presumably one of them.

Zach Lowe confirmed what K.C. reported about the Suns, Celtics and Nuggets offers. And no other reporters are refuting this or sayin the Bulls left better deals on the table.

By now you'd think if someone had info that there was a better deal, it would've come out by now right? Especially since the Butler rumors have been circulating for over a year now.

GarPax error was in their approach.

They were seemingly asking after young players like Lavine, Jamal Murray, Jaylen Brown. This is dumb because the clock is already ticking on those guys.

If they wanted to boost the rebuilding, they should have acquired extra picks in the coming years.

[The Evidence]

I just listened to an interview with Danny Ainge in which (interestingly) he said he thought MInnesota gave up a lot. He said Minnesota turned down LaVine and Dunn for Butler last year, and this year they gave up those two plus Markkanen. He thought the trade was beneficial to both teams.

Bulls stuff is at about 6:30 here:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/06/23/celtics-danny-ainge-nba-draft-rumors-trades-toucher-and-rich/

Ainge gonna Ainge.

This reveals alot though because it sounds like he wouldn't have offered Lavine, Dunn, #7....probably making the Minny deal the best deal we had on the table.

Ainge also has his job for life. Thibodeau doesnt have that luxury.

[Red8911]

That is the worst plan possible.

We have zero players with 2 way potential at present. It's going to take time to acquire those guys.

No it's a good plan,how many years you want to rebuild? If it takes more than 2-3 years,then imo its failed... They already got young guys that they like. Now obviously things need to go the bulls way and these guys need to ball out. If they do,it's a good thing and this shouldn't take too long. Lauri,Dunn,lavine are all high picks,then we have niko,Portis,valentine who have potential to get alot better. If everything works out I don't see a problem here. Use next years draft to hopefully get a stud and then boom,sign a free agent and compete again.

The 2-3 year rebuild plan has already failed. It failed the moment they traded Jimmy Butler for Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn, and Lauri Markkanen. It's dead and buried.

Again it depends on how these guys pan out. I know getting future picks could have made it easier,but never know maybe like this it can work out too.. Isn't it crazy how Boston got so many picks just for trading away old and finished garnett/pierce? They got so lucky. Now picks are so valuable for some reason and teams don't give it up that easily.

[Gant]

Nobody could have that info other than someone in the Bulls' FO, so presumably one of them.

Zach Lowe confirmed what K.C. reported about the Suns, Celtics and Nuggets offers. And no other reporters are refuting this or sayin the Bulls left better deals on the table.

By now you'd think if someone had info that there was a better deal, it would've come out by now right? Especially since the Butler rumors have been circulating for over a year now.

GarPax error was in their approach.

They were seemingly asking after young players like Lavine, Jamal Murray, Jaylen Brown. This is dumb because the clock is already ticking on those guys.

If they wanted to boost the rebuilding, they should have acquired extra picks in the coming years.

Boston was never going to part with Brown. They think he's on track to be something really good:

Read on Twitter

[kodo]

KC Johnson (Chicago Tribune) confirmed today that the Wolves offer was absolutely the best offer Bulls got for Jimmy Butler.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM mobile app

Confirmed with whom?

Zach Lowe said the same thing.

I'm coming around to fully believing this.

This just blew my mind:

The Denver Nuggets discussed a Jimmy Butler trade with the Chicago Bulls, but were unwilling to include Jamal Murray in any deal.

The Nuggets would not trade Jamal Murray for Jimmy Butler...