NBA 2017 Draft thread. 5th pick and 10th pick.

[SacKingZZZ]

I wanted monk, I'm not going to worry about monk for a few reasons. He's a hornet, eastern conference, and the players we got at 15 and 20 are nice. I'd rather have Jackson who has a very high floor and imo can be a starting SF in the NBA, and Giles who could possibly be the biggest steal in the draft.

Whys the narrative always "we're going to regret this or that." We just got a starting pg, potential starting SF, a super high upside PF/C, and a long term backup pg to fox in Mason. I literally have 0 complaints


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Even though I think it would have been awesome to get Monk, I am not disappointed that we didn't get him. Justin Jackson may not turn into that star SF, but his character and IQ can take him far. I think he can be a very good contributor for the Kings for years to come. He patches a hole until we find that stud SF (maybe in next years draft?) And then if and when we do get that stud, Jackson could still contribute a lot coming off the bench and being part of a rotation. I also love the Giles pick. He has very high upside, and the great thing is, we don't need to rush him. He can take his time and we can take our time with him. Frank Mason is going to be an extraordinary compliment to Fox in a couple years. The guy has drive and great character. We drafted great character guys which is very important, especially if they are guys that may have to be on the bench a while.

I agree. The positive about Jackson is he can do a bit of everything. He's a tad inconsistent and doesn't do anything spectacularly well, but finding a role on the floor for him at any given point shouldn't be an issue other than his narrow frame against certain matchups defensively. He plays the right way. If he's off the ball he's moving. If he has the ball he's attacking or doing something to make a play for someone else. Jackson to me is a very Warriors-esque type of player.

[benchmobbin02]

We are really gonna regret not drafting Monk. Book it.

So we draft him and then who doesnt play? BB? Buddy? Richardson? Temple?

You could start Monk as a backup combo G. You'd lose value on him as an asset but if he flourished you're scoring off the bench is secure. As it is right now, one of those wings aren't getting consistent minutes unless one of them spends time at PF anyway. I think the smart play is see if BB, Malachi, and Jackson can work at SF. If it costs the Kings games then goodie. That's probably the idea anyway.

If Jackson can play some at PF like some see him doing then it could help. I still see more of a G/F combo in the vein of Francisco Garcia if anything. Although who knows, if Cisco were drafted today he might spend some time at PF with the way some teams play. If it proves to be true that Jackson spills over to SG and not PF then someone gets crunched for sure.

Huh...Jackson is a SF. There is no question that will be his position. He won't be taking any minutes from the guard rotation of Fox/Temple/Mason or Hield/BB/Richardson.

The real questions are will Mason stay on the active roster? Will BB or Richardson play SF and how much? And will we invest in another TRUE SF or PG in free agency? Vlade as already said we'll be active in free agency.

[Sacramento_King]

IMO Collins was the better player. A defensive big who is quick, strong, and can shoot inside and out. Solid mechanics. Monk fits todays game but he is undersized and a bad defender.

I think Collins is a bit of a project and I think it's really hard to extrapolate based on college. I mean, consider that he didn't play heavy minutes (only 17 per game), played as a reserve against reserves, and played in a conference that (overall) had far less talent than the majors. Contrast that with Monk. Monk has a FAR longer and more polished resume and brings a far more useful (and developed) skill to the table (shooting).

Also, I wouldn't necessarily call Monk a "bad" defender. I think he's willing, but that, in the NBA at least, his size would make it tough to ever be much more than average. But I think his ability to score sets him apart.

So you would take on Turner for 20 and 26? I would rather have done the deal we did and leave us open to facilitating a different deal getting additional assets back later. Still lots of big names and bad contracts out there to be moved and I think getting a 2019 pick or addl picks next year would be huge.

Why not both? The Kings had the cap space to take on Turner now and someone else later. Turner also fits a team need (ballhandling/SF).

Given hindsight (and assuming that trade was on the table) I'd have taken Monk at 10 and Giles at 20. Given what Vlade said about Frank I think they may have taken him at 26, but that means at 34 I'm taking Bell.

So the real question to me is, which is better:
Jackson + 17m in cap space

vs.

Monk + Turner + Bell

I take the latter 11 times out of 10.

I would have gone with Jackson + Giles and cap space. When free agency starts, I think teams looking to make a splash are going to be looking at teams to help dump deals and that's when we can take advantage of our space. Initially, I thought taking on Turner would be worth it but with guys like Beverly, Green, Lou Williams, Kanter, Pistons moving players, Blazers are still open to dump, Lakers with Deng and Clarkson, I am glad they preserved space to maybe get addl 18 assets or 19 assets.

I see where you're coming from though and you liking Monk

[SacKingZZZ]

From Vlade's mouth at 5:28 he says they will be active in Free Agency. I don't think you read anything into it besides just taking him at his word.

Watch on YouTube

Vlade's learning. They asked about the process of trading the 10th pick and he was basically like F U, I ain't falling for that again. Wasn't about to discuss that one.

[SacKingZZZ]

So we draft him and then who doesnt play? BB? Buddy? Richardson? Temple?

You could start Monk as a backup combo G. You'd lose value on him as an asset but if he flourished you're scoring off the bench is secure. As it is right now, one of those wings aren't getting consistent minutes unless one of them spends time at PF anyway. I think the smart play is see if BB, Malachi, and Jackson can work at SF. If it costs the Kings games then goodie. That's probably the idea anyway.

If Jackson can play some at PF like some see him doing then it could help. I still see more of a G/F combo in the vein of Francisco Garcia if anything. Although who knows, if Cisco were drafted today he might spend some time at PF with the way some teams play. If it proves to be true that Jackson spills over to SG and not PF then someone gets crunched for sure.

Huh...Jackson is a SF. There is no question that will be his position. He won't be taking any minutes from the guard rotation of Fox/Temple/Mason or Hield/BB/Richardson.

The real questions are will Mason stay on the active roster? Will BB or Richardson play SF and how much? And will we invest in another TRUE SF or PG in free agency? Vlade as already said we'll be active in free agency.

Some list him as a SG. Some say he can play PF. I still wonder what his future will be at in the SF spot. It's the question of him being a full time SF against any matchup. You question players like Bogdan playing that spot, well he's the same basic length as Bogdan, a little taller, but at 22 he weighs as much as Bogdan did at a spindly 18.

If we take Vlade at his word he said Mason can play right now. So we'll see.

[SacKingZZZ]

Here's a really good write up on Jackson from Sactownroyalty.

https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2017/5/24/15678774/nba-draft-2017-scouting-profile-justin-jackson

Fit with Sacramento:

"With the talent around him at the No. 10 spot, it’s hard for me to get excited about Justin Jackson as a King. As a late-teens pick, I understand adding a capable spot-up shooter at an apparent position of need… but then again, he’s not really in the position of need. His value at the NBA level will come from playing shooting guard, where his lack of strength or ability to play and attack down low will be less of a major issue. Jackson matching up against NBA small forwards, even with his prototypical height/length, is terrifying for a 22 year old who only barely hit 200 pounds as a junior. Jackson’s best moments in college came against smaller players at both end of the court, and that’s not the position the Kings need to fill."

Maybe he'll overcome some of those things and be fine at SF but there are certain things seen in his college game that would suggest potential issues.

[benchmobbin02]

You could start Monk as a backup combo G. You'd lose value on him as an asset but if he flourished you're scoring off the bench is secure. As it is right now, one of those wings aren't getting consistent minutes unless one of them spends time at PF anyway. I think the smart play is see if BB, Malachi, and Jackson can work at SF. If it costs the Kings games then goodie. That's probably the idea anyway.

If Jackson can play some at PF like some see him doing then it could help. I still see more of a G/F combo in the vein of Francisco Garcia if anything. Although who knows, if Cisco were drafted today he might spend some time at PF with the way some teams play. If it proves to be true that Jackson spills over to SG and not PF then someone gets crunched for sure.

Huh...Jackson is a SF. There is no question that will be his position. He won't be taking any minutes from the guard rotation of Fox/Temple/Mason or Hield/BB/Richardson.

The real questions are will Mason stay on the active roster? Will BB or Richardson play SF and how much? And will we invest in another TRUE SF or PG in free agency? Vlade as already said we'll be active in free agency.

Some list him as a SG. Some say he can play PF.

Who?

I still wonder what his future will be at in the SF spot. It's the question of him being a full time SF against any matchup. You question players like Bogdan playing that spot, well he's the same basic length as Bogdan, a little taller, but at 22 he weighs as much as Bogdan did at a spindly 18.

If we take Vlade at his word he said Mason can play right now. So we'll see.

Legnth and weight is an important part of it but having the height and reach is also a consideration. A long wingspan is aided on the defensive end by a players height, especially if he is playing vs someone 2-4 inches taller. Plus I think he has the kind of frame he can pack weight on fairly easily with the right diet and work. Wouldn't be surprised to see him at 210-215 be opening night and only getting stronger.

Yeah we'll see with Mason. Just because Vlade says it doesn't mean Mason will prove it on the court. I hope he does.

[City of Trees]

From Vlade's mouth at 5:28 he says they will be active in Free Agency. I don't think you read anything into it besides just taking him at his word.

Watch on YouTube

Vlade's learning. They asked about the process of trading the 10th pick and he was basically like F U, I ain't falling for that again. Wasn't about to discuss that one.

Yes I noticed he's been practicing. He needed it.

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[SacKingZZZ]

Huh...Jackson is a SF. There is no question that will be his position. He won't be taking any minutes from the guard rotation of Fox/Temple/Mason or Hield/BB/Richardson.

The real questions are will Mason stay on the active roster? Will BB or Richardson play SF and how much? And will we invest in another TRUE SF or PG in free agency? Vlade as already said we'll be active in free agency.

Some list him as a SG. Some say he can play PF.

Who?

I still wonder what his future will be at in the SF spot. It's the question of him being a full time SF against any matchup. You question players like Bogdan playing that spot, well he's the same basic length as Bogdan, a little taller, but at 22 he weighs as much as Bogdan did at a spindly 18.

If we take Vlade at his word he said Mason can play right now. So we'll see.

Legnth and weight is an important part of it but having the height and reach is also a consideration. A long wingspan is aided on the defensive end by a players height, especially if he is playing vs someone 2-4 inches taller. Plus I think he has the kind of frame he can pack weight on fairly easily with the right diet and work. Wouldn't be surprised to see him at 210-215 be opening night and only getting stronger.

Yeah we'll see with Mason. Just because Vlade says it doesn't mean Mason will prove it on the court. I hope he does.

It's hard to say. He naturally is very narrow and trying to pack on weight onto a frame that it doesn't really work well on would just be detrimental to him in the end. It would also be a question of how hard it would be for him to keep his gains. Some people buff out and then lose it as soon as they aren't training full time because that's just not naturally who they are. He's also 22 so he's probably done developing physically. Time will tell on that front I guess. He weighed what he did at the combine and I'm sure that came after some serious training. I wouldn't be surprised if he's more comfortable in the 190's to be honest. Which for some people doesn't mean they are any less strong. There are some wiry dudes that will wear you out. Didn't see that from him in college much though.

[City of Trees]

All I want in FA is Otto Porter Jr. and Jamychael Green. Although now im not sure how Green fits without taking minutes away from Giles. Wonder what the Giles approach will be? Slow? G league? Compete right away?

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[SacKingZZZ]

All I want in FA is Otto Porter Jr. and Jamychael Green. Although now im not sure how Green fits without taking minutes away from Giles. Wonder what the Giles approach will be? Slow? G league?

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I would hope Giles is a player they stick full time in the G-league. Let him develop that skill he showed in high school.

Watch on YouTube

His ball handling is what could set him apart. I watched a lot of Duke this year and you never saw any of that.

[benchmobbin02]

Some list him as a SG. Some say he can play PF.

Who?

I still wonder what his future will be at in the SF spot. It's the question of him being a full time SF against any matchup. You question players like Bogdan playing that spot, well he's the same basic length as Bogdan, a little taller, but at 22 he weighs as much as Bogdan did at a spindly 18.

If we take Vlade at his word he said Mason can play right now. So we'll see.

Legnth and weight is an important part of it but having the height and reach is also a consideration. A long wingspan is aided on the defensive end by a players height, especially if he is playing vs someone 2-4 inches taller. Plus I think he has the kind of frame he can pack weight on fairly easily with the right diet and work. Wouldn't be surprised to see him at 210-215 be opening night and only getting stronger.

Yeah we'll see with Mason. Just because Vlade says it doesn't mean Mason will prove it on the court. I hope he does.

It's hard to say. He naturally is very narrow and trying to pack on weight onto a frame that it doesn't really work well on would just be detrimental to him in the end. It would also be a question of how hard it would be for him to keep his gains. Some people buff out and then lose it as soon as they aren't training full time because that's just not naturally who they are. He's also 22 so he's probably done developing physically. Time will tell on that front I guess. He weighed what he did at the combine and I'm sure that came after some serious training. I wouldn't be surprised if he's more comfortable in the 190's to be honest. Which for some people doesn't mean they are any less strong. There are some wiry dudes that will wear you out. Didn't see that from him in college much though.

I worked with plenty of guy in their early to mid 20's that have the same frame and just haven't been put on the correct regime to make the kind of gains that will be sustainable. You get them dialed in and the weight just comes. As you said time will tell but IMO he is a SF and that is what he was drafted to play and all he has ever played. Because he had success vs guys shorter than him is just a symptom of the game they are playing.

* did 1yr under grad in NST (Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology) with a focus on Dietetics. Worked in the field designing specialized programs along with physical and athletic trainers for high end athletes for 5 yrs.

[209Kings]

All I want in FA is Otto Porter Jr. and Jamychael Green. Although now im not sure how Green fits without taking minutes away from Giles. Wonder what the Giles approach will be? Slow? G league?

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I would hope Giles is a player they stick full time in the G-league. Let him develop that skill he showed in high school.

Watch on YouTube

His ball handling is what could set him apart. I watched a lot of Duke this year and you never saw any of that.

Hmmm...after watching that, and his displaying of ball handling and athleticism, what are the chances Vlade drafted him as a future SF/Winger? Maybe Vlade drafted him in hopes of developing him into a SF and not PF. Looks like he has it in him, or at least had it in him a couple years ago.

[City of Trees]

I saw ESPN broadcast labeled him a SG when he was walking on stage. I agree with benchmobbin, Jackson is a SF, not a SF/SG combo

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[benchmobbin02]

All I want in FA is Otto Porter Jr. and Jamychael Green. Although now im not sure how Green fits without taking minutes away from Giles. Wonder what the Giles approach will be? Slow? G league? Compete right away?

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I think Summer league will tell us alot about where these rookies are skill wise. Some want Giles in the D-league but I'd like to see his skills set more advanced and working to compete for backup F mins by mid season.

[SacKingZZZ]

Saw that Deonte Burton signed with the Wolves. Another unheralded move by a team on the move up.

[dckingsfan]

All I want in FA is Otto Porter Jr. and Jamychael Green. Although now im not sure how Green fits without taking minutes away from Giles. Wonder what the Giles approach will be? Slow? G league? Compete right away?

Don't think Wizards will let Porter go...

I hope they give Giles a full year of PT - get him right first. I hope Giles plays less than 500 minutes and all at the end of the season.

[sacking123]

All I want in FA is Otto Porter Jr. and Jamychael Green. Although now im not sure how Green fits without taking minutes away from Giles. Wonder what the Giles approach will be? Slow? G league? Compete right away?

Don't think Wizards will let Porter go...

I hope they give Giles a full year of PT - get him right first. I hope Giles plays less than 500 minutes and all at the end of the season.

What are people's thoughts on Porter with the cap lower than expected?
Does it make any difference to the Wizards really?


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[dckingsfan]

All I want in FA is Otto Porter Jr. and Jamychael Green. Although now im not sure how Green fits without taking minutes away from Giles. Wonder what the Giles approach will be? Slow? G league? Compete right away?

Don't think Wizards will let Porter go...

I hope they give Giles a full year of PT - get him right first. I hope Giles plays less than 500 minutes and all at the end of the season.

What are people's thoughts on Porter with the cap lower than expected? Does it make any difference to the Wizards really?

Porter is their #1 priority this off-season. I think the Kings would be thrilled to have someone else do the offer and just match. My guess is they will offer a 5 year deal to him starting at $20M. It will be stupid money - but Grunfeld always overpays for his own players.

I also don't think that Porter is the best fit in Sacramento. He is best as a 3rd or even 4th scoring option.

[SacKingZZZ]

Don't think Wizards will let Porter go...

I hope they give Giles a full year of PT - get him right first. I hope Giles plays less than 500 minutes and all at the end of the season.

What are people's thoughts on Porter with the cap lower than expected? Does it make any difference to the Wizards really?

Porter is their #1 priority this off-season. I think the Kings would be thrilled to have someone else do the offer and just match. My guess is they will offer a 5 year deal to him starting at $20M. It will be stupid money - but Grunfeld always overpays for his own players.

I also don't think that Porter is the best fit in Sacramento. He is best as a 3rd or even 4th scoring option.

That's why he'd fit. He's a 3 and D guy who can slide to PF. If the Kings go after anyone in FA at SF it better be this guy. He's still young and fits like a glove. The Kings could realistically afford to sign someone like him and still have time to re-up some of the young guns when his deal winds down.