Official: Jimmy Butler, #16 to Minnesota for Lavine, Dunn, #7 - merged/Justin Patton injured

[TheSuzerain]

No it's a good plan,how many years you want to rebuild? If it takes more than 2-3 years,then imo its failed... They already got young guys that they like. Now obviously things need to go the bulls way and these guys need to ball out. If they do,it's a good thing and this shouldn't take too long. Lauri,Dunn,lavine are all high picks,then we have niko,Portis,valentine who have potential to get alot better. If everything works out I don't see a problem here. Use next years draft to hopefully get a stud and then boom,sign a free agent and compete again.

The 2-3 year rebuild plan has already failed. It failed the moment they traded Jimmy Butler for Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn, and Lauri Markkanen. It's dead and buried.

Again it depends on how these guys pan out. I know getting future picks could have made it easier,but never know maybe like this it can work out too.. Isn't it crazy how Boston got so many picks just for trading away old and finished garnett/pierce? They got so lucky. Now picks are so valuable for some reason and teams don't give it up that easily.

On occasion, there are front offices ripe to be plundered like what happened in Brooklyn.

At present, GarPax are at the top of that list. Hopefully they lose their jobs just like Billy King.

[Gant]

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[TheSuzerain]

Zach Lowe confirmed what K.C. reported about the Suns, Celtics and Nuggets offers. And no other reporters are refuting this or sayin the Bulls left better deals on the table.

By now you'd think if someone had info that there was a better deal, it would've come out by now right? Especially since the Butler rumors have been circulating for over a year now.

GarPax error was in their approach.

They were seemingly asking after young players like Lavine, Jamal Murray, Jaylen Brown. This is dumb because the clock is already ticking on those guys.

If they wanted to boost the rebuilding, they should have acquired extra picks in the coming years.

Boston was never going to part with Brown. They think he's on track to be something really good:

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My point is we shouldn't have been after Brown in the first place.

We should have been after the 2018 Nets 1st or the pick they got from Philly. Or the Grizzlies 2019.

[League Circles]

The 2-3 year rebuild plan has already failed. It failed the moment they traded Jimmy Butler for Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn, and Lauri Markkanen. It's dead and buried.

You have zero idea how long this rebuild will take. If we get lucky the next two drafts and draft total studs it can be a quick turnaround or could be a protracted one who knows.

The point is, there's nobody on the roster at present who warrants us not tanking for the next 3-4 years.

And given the Bulls trash reputation among players in the league, there will be no Free Agent savior.

There's nobody likely to be had by a tanking attempt that will be better than who we already had. The reason philly keeps getting high picks is cause they've had incredible injury problems with at least 3 top picks. And that's exactly why they're still stuck ar horrible and not a great bet to be good any time soon.

Even in a successful tank where you reach the goal of being the very worst team in the league, you have just a 25% chance of the top pick. Most likely, you're going to pick 6th, then 8th, then whatever. Basically just add more guys of the same exact talent level of Niko, Lauri, Dunn and Lavine. Thats roughly the talent level that if half of them hit and become good (not elite) players, you can flirt with the playoffs and be attractive to a couple good FAs. Then you havr a deep core with maybe 4-6 good players to compete with and hopefully lure an actual superstar to join you on merit like kobe wanted to join in 2005 or whenever.

[Gant]

GarPax error was in their approach.

They were seemingly asking after young players like Lavine, Jamal Murray, Jaylen Brown. This is dumb because the clock is already ticking on those guys.

If they wanted to boost the rebuilding, they should have acquired extra picks in the coming years.

Boston was never going to part with Brown. They think he's on track to be something really good:

Read on Twitter

My point is we shouldn't have been after Brown in the first place.

We should have been after the 2018 Nets 1st or the pick they got from Philly. Or the Grizzlies 2019.

Probably true though the deal seems like it wasn't meant to be in this case.

[jnrjr79]

You have zero idea how long this rebuild will take. If we get lucky the next two drafts and draft total studs it can be a quick turnaround or could be a protracted one who knows.

The point is, there's nobody on the roster at present who warrants us not tanking for the next 3-4 years.

And given the Bulls trash reputation among players in the league, there will be no Free Agent savior.

There's nobody likely to be had by a tanking attempt that will be better than who we already had. The reason philly keeps getting high picks is cause they've had incredible injury problems with at least 3 top picks. And that's exactly why they're still stuck ar horrible and not a great bet to be good any time soon.

Even in a successful tank where you reach the goal of being the very worst team in the league, you have just a 25% chance of the top pick. Most likely, you're going to pick 6th, then 8th, then whatever. Basically just add more guys of the same exact talent level of Niko, Lauri, Dunn and Lavine. Thats roughly the talent level that if half of them hit and become good (not elite) players, you can flirt with the playoffs and be attractive to a couple good FAs. Then you havr a deep core with maybe 4-6 good players to compete with and hopefully lure an actual superstar to join you on merit like kobe wanted to join in 2005 or whenever.

No. If you are the worst team in the league, you can pick no later than #4.

[League Circles]

Seems pretty clear ainge doesn't strongly value butler. Maybe he knows his team isn't good or maybe he's delusional about his assets.

[Ralphb07]

For **** and giggles I went onto Minnesota board to see what the fans were saying. While 90% voted they were happy with the trade the comments were interesting. They all wished they could've kept Lavine and the majority were still high on Dunn. I'd go give it a read Bulls fans.

[League Circles]

The point is, there's nobody on the roster at present who warrants us not tanking for the next 3-4 years.

And given the Bulls trash reputation among players in the league, there will be no Free Agent savior.

There's nobody likely to be had by a tanking attempt that will be better than who we already had. The reason philly keeps getting high picks is cause they've had incredible injury problems with at least 3 top picks. And that's exactly why they're still stuck ar horrible and not a great bet to be good any time soon.

Even in a successful tank where you reach the goal of being the very worst team in the league, you have just a 25% chance of the top pick. Most likely, you're going to pick 6th, then 8th, then whatever. Basically just add more guys of the same exact talent level of Niko, Lauri, Dunn and Lavine. Thats roughly the talent level that if half of them hit and become good (not elite) players, you can flirt with the playoffs and be attractive to a couple good FAs. Then you havr a deep core with maybe 4-6 good players to compete with and hopefully lure an actual superstar to join you on merit like kobe wanted to join in 2005 or whenever.

No. If you are the worst team in the league, you can pick no later than #4.

No what? I said you have just a 25% chance of getting the top pick whoch is accurate.

As for #4, frankly you generally get guys of the talent level of, yep, Niko, Dunn, Lavine, and Lauri. And it's hard to be the worst in the league. Hars to believe we'll be worse than Brooklyn and maybe several others. Frankly I think we'll pick no better than 8th next year and probably make the playoffs the following year.

[Ralphb07]

Seems pretty clear ainge doesn't strongly value butler. Maybe he knows his team isn't good or maybe he's delusional about his assets.

I know some teams worry about how he plays. He doesn't fit in the new uptempo style. It's why Minnesota always made sense.

Obviously any team would take him at the right price but it's why Denver didn't offer Murray, Phoenix didn't offer #4 and Boston didn't offer 3 or next years BK pick.

[DroseReturnChi]

Seems pretty clear ainge doesn't strongly value butler. Maybe he knows his team isn't good or maybe he's delusional about his assets.

Ainge is a dumbass and he will get paid for overvaluing his assets. Thank god we chose #7, Lavine, Dunn over #3 at best.
GS is going to dominate for another 5 years so Boston's overflow of assets wont be that meaningful anyway. Keep drafting busts like Smart, Olynk, Rozier.

[BR0D1E86]

GARPAX you freakin idiots!!!! I hate this trade....
CELTICS would offer better one for sure...

It wasn't though. Supposedly 3, BKN 18 & the LAL/SAC pick was off the table. That's really all they have of any interest or value to the Bulls.

[Bulls_Fan]

Paxson wanted a high draft pick to start the rebuild. That took a lot of teams out of the equation. Also, he wanted some young assets to go along w/ that. Not many teams meet that prescription. Look at Denver. THey wouldn't even include Murray in trade discussions.

Picks are essential in a rebuild. Pax should be trying to take on bad contracts, stockpiling draft picks. I was thoroughly annoyed that the Bulls cheaped out and sold their 2nd round pick. Odds are it would lead to nothing but in a rebuild, you turn over every stone possible.

This is a big year for Dunn. He should get every opportunity to succeed and all the playing time he needs to flourish. I'm hoping he takes a big step next season and starts looking like the player people thought he would be out of college.

Above all, they need to lose games. That means no Rondo on the roster and Wade being bought out or being exiled to the bench to show off his girlie wardrobe.

[BR0D1E86]

Seems pretty clear ainge doesn't strongly value butler. Maybe he knows his team isn't good or maybe he's delusional about his assets.

He may know that his team is pretty far from a championship contender.

I think it's pretty apparent he thinks real highly of his assets also.

[DroseReturnChi]

Paxson wanted a high draft pick to start the rebuild. That took a lot of teams out of the equation. Also, he wanted some young assets to go along w/ that. Not many teams meet that prescription. Look at Denver. THey wouldn't even include Murray in trade discussions.

Picks are essential in a rebuild. Pax should be trying to take on bad contracts, stockpiling draft picks. I was thoroughly annoyed that the Bulls cheaped out and sold their 2nd round pick. Odds are it would lead to nothing but in a rebuild, you turn over every stone possible.

This is a big year for Dunn. He should get every opportunity to succeed and all the playing time he needs to flourish. I'm hoping he takes a big step next season and starts looking like the player people thought he would be out of college.

Above all, they need to lose games. That means no Rondo on the roster and Wade being bought out or being exiled to the bench to show off his girlie wardrobe.

Minn package was def the best even if Boston offered #3 straight up. There's a high chance Jackson would end up as a bust and there's a reason why Tatum was drafted at 3 instead of 4. I too like Tatum better than Jackson and view him as a Paul Pierce 2.0. More calm, has a smooth jumper, and much less riskier. But downside of Tatum is he offers little upside and no superstar potential.
So basically you get a free look at 3 lottery prospects who are Dunn, Lavine, and Lauri and they are all highly coveted prospects previously. 3 vs 1 is no brainer to me. Quantity does matter as well as the quality of the prospects.
And while #16, #38 was wasted in the process, that's whole another story and should be viewed as a separate matter.
More reasons to fire the FO for mismanagement of assets but I didnt see any good prospects after #10, so I will forgive them this time.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Butler will be relieved knowing the trade rumors will finally stop.

Btw, if anyone is wondering, via his Instagram account, he'll wear #23.

[Bulls_Fan]

Paxson wanted a high draft pick to start the rebuild. That took a lot of teams out of the equation. Also, he wanted some young assets to go along w/ that. Not many teams meet that prescription. Look at Denver. THey wouldn't even include Murray in trade discussions.

Picks are essential in a rebuild. Pax should be trying to take on bad contracts, stockpiling draft picks. I was thoroughly annoyed that the Bulls cheaped out and sold their 2nd round pick. Odds are it would lead to nothing but in a rebuild, you turn over every stone possible.

This is a big year for Dunn. He should get every opportunity to succeed and all the playing time he needs to flourish. I'm hoping he takes a big step next season and starts looking like the player people thought he would be out of college.

Above all, they need to lose games. That means no Rondo on the roster and Wade being bought out or being exiled to the bench to show off his girlie wardrobe.

Minn package was def the best even if Boston offered #3 straight up. There's a high chance Jackson would end up as a bust and there's a reason why Tatum was drafted at 3 instead of 4. I too like Tatum better than Jackson and view him as a Paul Pierce 2.0. More calm, has a smooth jumper, and much less riskier. But downside of Tatum is he offers little upside and no superstar potential.
So basically you get a free look at 3 lottery prospects who are Dunn, Lavine, and Lauri and they are all highly coveted prospects previously. 3 vs 1 is no brainer to me. Quantity does matter as well as the quality of the prospects.
And while #16, #38 was wasted in the process, that's whole another story and should be viewed as a separate matter.
More reasons to fire the FO for mismanagement of assets but I didnt see any good prospects after #10, so I will forgive them this time.

If Bos was offering the 3rd alone I would have taken it. I would have taken Fox. At 16 and 38 the BPA. I like Fox a lot and think he can be special. I understand why the Bulls took the Wolves offer and don't begrudge them. Dunn is on notice this season and probably next to see if he can be a mainstay at PG or if we need to address it w/ a high pick in the draft. The idea that we can get Porter Jr. or Doncic who are rated 1/2 in Mocks is exciting. I'll be watching a lot of Mizzou games to scout him and see how he plays.

[Gant]

GARPAX you freakin idiots!!!! I hate this trade....
CELTICS would offer better one for sure...

It wasn't though. Supposedly 3, BKN 18 & the LAL/SAC pick was off the table. That's really all they have of any interest or value to the Bulls.

You're right:

Ainge said he did not talk with the Chicago Bulls over the last week before they traded Butler and the 16th pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine and the draft rights to Lauri Markkanen.

"We knew that was likely," Ainge said of a trade. "Quite honestly, I thought that he was going to be traded last summer. He's a terrific player. But we've had many conversations with them over the last couple years, we just couldn't get anything done."

According to a league source, the Celtics this summer declined to offer any of their top draft assets, including this year's third pick, next year's Brooklyn Nets pick, or the future first-rounder recently acquired in the Markelle Fultz deal.

The Celtics could target other star wings that wouldn't cost as many assets. Gordon Hayward is an obvious free-agent target and the Indiana Pacers appear all but forced into trading Paul George.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/06/boston_celtics_rumors_danny_ai_2.html

[Bulls_Fan]

Butler will be relieved knowing the trade rumors will finally stop.

Btw, if anyone is wondering, via his Instagram account, he'll wear #23.

It's really best for both Butler and the Bulls. If the Bulls didnt make a trade it would have hung over the whole team. There would be rumors at the deadline and maybe we make a move/or not. If we do, we kiss away a high draft pick in 2018 and you can bet a team w/ a high lotto pick potential wouldn't give up the pick for Butler.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

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