NBA 2017 Draft thread. 5th pick and 10th pick.

[SacKingZZZ]

All I want in FA is Otto Porter Jr. and Jamychael Green. Although now im not sure how Green fits without taking minutes away from Giles. Wonder what the Giles approach will be? Slow? G league? Compete right away?

Don't think Wizards will let Porter go...

I hope they give Giles a full year of PT - get him right first. I hope Giles plays less than 500 minutes and all at the end of the season.

What are people's thoughts on Porter with the cap lower than expected?
Does it make any difference to the Wizards really?


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I think them being able to move Gortat could factor in. They have a lot of money wrapped up in middle rung C's. The Wiz are almost in a position to where they have to sign Porter then figure it out later. They could be a team at the deadline looking to get some relief.

[dckingsfan]

What are people's thoughts on Porter with the cap lower than expected? Does it make any difference to the Wizards really?

Porter is their #1 priority this off-season. I think the Kings would be thrilled to have someone else do the offer and just match. My guess is they will offer a 5 year deal to him starting at $20M. It will be stupid money - but Grunfeld always overpays for his own players.

I also don't think that Porter is the best fit in Sacramento. He is best as a 3rd or even 4th scoring option.

That's why he'd fit. He's a 3 and D guy who can slide to PF. If the Kings go after anyone in FA at SF it better be this guy. He's still young and fits like a glove. The Kings could realistically afford to sign someone like him and still have time to re-up some of the young guns when his deal winds down.

I wouldn't count on him sliding to PF - although he might continue to get stronger. But I think that Sac just needs to figure out their #1 & #2 scoring options for right now.

And I am nearly positive that the Wizards would match - so it is really moot.

[jeffjtk1234]

Porter is their #1 priority this off-season. I think the Kings would be thrilled to have someone else do the offer and just match. My guess is they will offer a 5 year deal to him starting at $20M. It will be stupid money - but Grunfeld always overpays for his own players.

I also don't think that Porter is the best fit in Sacramento. He is best as a 3rd or even 4th scoring option.

That's why he'd fit. He's a 3 and D guy who can slide to PF. If the Kings go after anyone in FA at SF it better be this guy. He's still young and fits like a glove. The Kings could realistically afford to sign someone like him and still have time to re-up some of the young guns when his deal winds down.

I wouldn't count on him sliding to PF - although he might continue to get stronger. But I think that Sac just needs to figure out their #1 & #2 scoring options for right now.

And I am nearly positive that the Wizards would match - so it is really moot.

It's the wrong porter to target. Draft your second franchise player (counting fox as first) next year. There are a few franchise talents on the wing next year.

Otherwise, I like ingles for this team.


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[PetrieUnderstudy]

That's why he'd fit. He's a 3 and D guy who can slide to PF. If the Kings go after anyone in FA at SF it better be this guy. He's still young and fits like a glove. The Kings could realistically afford to sign someone like him and still have time to re-up some of the young guns when his deal winds down.

I wouldn't count on him sliding to PF - although he might continue to get stronger. But I think that Sac just needs to figure out their #1 & #2 scoring options for right now.

And I am nearly positive that the Wizards would match - so it is really moot.

It's the wrong porter to target. Draft your second franchise player (counting fox as first) next year. There are a few franchise talents on the wing next year.

Otherwise, I like ingles for this team.


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Nice! Someone else likes Ingles for the team. He'll cost a hell of a lot less than Otto and can easily slide to back up next season if we land Porter Jr, Doncic, Bridges, etc. Even though it's unlikely he'll come, Otto would require max and that's a lot for a potential back up. I'm going Lavar...speak it into existence, Ingles and possibly JaMychal Green. I can go with Lawson on 2yr instead of Collison for extra cap.

[Sactowndog]

Huh...Jackson is a SF. There is no question that will be his position. He won't be taking any minutes from the guard rotation of Fox/Temple/Mason or Hield/BB/Richardson.

The real questions are will Mason stay on the active roster? Will BB or Richardson play SF and how much? And will we invest in another TRUE SF or PG in free agency? Vlade as already said we'll be active in free agency.

Some list him as a SG. Some say he can play PF.

Who?

I still wonder what his future will be at in the SF spot. It's the question of him being a full time SF against any matchup. You question players like Bogdan playing that spot, well he's the same basic length as Bogdan, a little taller, but at 22 he weighs as much as Bogdan did at a spindly 18.

If we take Vlade at his word he said Mason can play right now. So we'll see.

Legnth and weight is an important part of it but having the height and reach is also a consideration. A long wingspan is aided on the defensive end by a players height, especially if he is playing vs someone 2-4 inches taller. Plus I think he has the kind of frame he can pack weight on fairly easily with the right diet and work. Wouldn't be surprised to see him at 210-215 be opening night and only getting stronger.

Yeah we'll see with Mason. Just because Vlade says it doesn't mean Mason will prove it on the court. I hope he does.

Bogdan has the same wingspan and standing reach. No running jump slightly lower but running jump the same .

[benchmobbin02]

Some list him as a SG. Some say he can play PF.

Who?

I still wonder what his future will be at in the SF spot. It's the question of him being a full time SF against any matchup. You question players like Bogdan playing that spot, well he's the same basic length as Bogdan, a little taller, but at 22 he weighs as much as Bogdan did at a spindly 18.

If we take Vlade at his word he said Mason can play right now. So we'll see.

Legnth and weight is an important part of it but having the height and reach is also a consideration. A long wingspan is aided on the defensive end by a players height, especially if he is playing vs someone 2-4 inches taller. Plus I think he has the kind of frame he can pack weight on fairly easily with the right diet and work. Wouldn't be surprised to see him at 210-215 be opening night and only getting stronger.

Yeah we'll see with Mason. Just because Vlade says it doesn't mean Mason will prove it on the court. I hope he does.

Bogdan has the same wingspan and standing reach. No running jump slightly lower but running jump the same .

That is correct. And since Jackson is 2 inches taller that would mean his frame at the shoulders is wider. More room to put on weight in the right environment.

[madskillz8]

Otherwise, I like ingles for this team.

Nice! Someone else likes Ingles for the team. He'll cost a hell of a lot less than Otto and can easily slide to back up next season if we land Porter Jr, Doncic, Bridges, etc. Even though it's unlikely he'll come, Otto would require max and that's a lot for a potential back up.

Why should we sign 10M+ for a 30 years old SF by giving him starting job (dont expect that he will accept backup role for a lottery team), who is not expected to offer a special veteran leadership? He's in his prime, so he can help this young team to win some additional games. This means a worse seed in lottery. On the other hand it's very likely that he wouldn't be a core part of the team when we start to contend. Lose-lose IMO. I'd rather prefer to gamble on Porter given we have a cap space for even more than 2 max, even though it seems like Wizard will match any offer for him. Even if he cannot develop his current performance and will give what he gives this year we can live with it. Fox as a first option and Hield, Skal, Porter.

[Sactowndog]

Who?



Legnth and weight is an important part of it but having the height and reach is also a consideration. A long wingspan is aided on the defensive end by a players height, especially if he is playing vs someone 2-4 inches taller. Plus I think he has the kind of frame he can pack weight on fairly easily with the right diet and work. Wouldn't be surprised to see him at 210-215 be opening night and only getting stronger.

Yeah we'll see with Mason. Just because Vlade says it doesn't mean Mason will prove it on the court. I hope he does.

Bogdan has the same wingspan and standing reach. No running jump slightly lower but running jump the same .

That is correct. And since Jackson is 2 inches taller that would mean his frame at the shoulders is wider. More room to put on weight in the right environment.

How does that follow? It may well be true but it's more likely the shorter guy with the same wingspan has the couple inches wider back leading to the same wingspan.

[benchmobbin02]

Bogdan has the same wingspan and standing reach. No running jump slightly lower but running jump the same .

That is correct. And since Jackson is 2 inches taller that would mean his frame at the shoulders is wider. More room to put on weight in the right environment.

How does that follow? It may well be true but it's more likely the shorter guy with the same wingspan has the couple inches wider back leading to the same wingspan.

No, that could be due to arm length. Well both could I guess.

[Sactowndog]

That is correct. And since Jackson is 2 inches taller that would mean his frame at the shoulders is wider. More room to put on weight in the right environment.

How does that follow? It may well be true but it's more likely the shorter guy with the same wingspan has the couple inches wider back leading to the same wingspan.

No, that could be due to arm length. Well both could I guess.

Yes but if it were just arms then B.B. would be more significantly beyond the norm.

Just curious. Have you seen water polo? Serbs are best in the world by far. Lots of very broad shouldered long limbed guys in that country.

[benchmobbin02]

How does that follow? It may well be true but it's more likely the shorter guy with the same wingspan has the couple inches wider back leading to the same wingspan.

No, that could be due to arm length. Well both could I guess.

Yes but if it were just arms then B.B. would be more significantly beyond the norm.

Just curious. Have you seen water polo? Serbs are best in the world by far. Lots of very broad shouldered long limbed guys in that country.

And that means BB is...

Yeah, no.

[dckingsfan]

So, this is what the cap looks like now if we renounce everyone not on the list. The minimum team salary is $84,729,000.

My take is that they should go after REALLY valuable FAs. If they strike out - no worries. Take on bad contracts for assets. Don't go after middling FAs, that is a race to the bottom.

Code: Select all

Koufos        $8,393,000
Temple        $8,000,000
Fox           $3,841,000
WCS           $3,704,160
Hield         $3,675,480
Papagiannis   $2,301,360
Jackson       $1,971,300
Giles         $1,549,500
Richardson    $1,504,560
Labissiere    $1,312,611
Mason           $815,615


Code: Select all

   
Barnes        $2,133,542
Tolliver      $2,000,000
Afflalo       $1,500,000
Butler          $517,220
             $43,219,348


[dckingsfan]

As it stands:

Code: Select all

Fox          Mason
Hield        Richardson
Jackson      Temple          Giles
Labissiere   Koufos
WCS          Papagiannis


[Sactowndog]

So, this is what the cap looks like now if we renounce everyone not on the list. The minimum team salary is $84,729,000.

My take is that they should go after REALLY valuable FAs. If they strike out - no worries. Take on bad contracts for assets. Don't go after middling FAs, that is a race to the bottom.

Code: Select all

Koufos        $8,393,000
Temple        $8,000,000
Fox           $3,841,000
WCS           $3,704,160
Hield         $3,675,480
Papagiannis   $2,301,360
Jackson       $1,971,300
Giles         $1,549,500
Richardson    $1,504,560
Labissiere    $1,312,611
Mason           $815,615


Code: Select all

   
Barnes        $2,133,542
Tolliver      $2,000,000
Afflalo       $1,500,000
Butler          $517,220
             $43,219,348


I agree. They have a ways to go just to reach the minimum. No top free agent is coming here at this stage. Use space to gain assets. Are time will come in 19 or 20. Vlade won't mess it up now. ( let's hope)

[madskillz8]

As it stands:

Code: Select all

Fox           Mason
Hield        Richardson
Jackson      Temple
Labissiere   Koufos
WCS          Papagiannis


Bring Bogdanovic and resign Lawson for total of less than 13 mil. .

Throw a max to Otto Porter for 3 years, by taking the fact that Wizard will likely match into consideration. Assume that you got Porter and he could not develop into a better player and gave what he did this season, you can still live with it. Whatever the outcome, take a player with bad contract for a future pick that can play backup minutes at PF and SF as well as giving you a veteran presence. And his name is Luol Deng.

The post-Boogie experience has showed us that in any case we will compete and win some games. It's too early, but I believe that we will finish nearer to 14 rather than 1 whatever we will do from today to first day of season. We don't have our pick at 19' and I'm just not keen on 18' in which we possibly draft between 7-14.

Code: Select all

Fox          Lawson   Mason
Hield        Bogdan   Richardson
(Porter)     Jackson      Temple
Labissiere   Koufos       Deng
WCS        Papagiannis

[dckingsfan]

Bring Bogdanovic and resign Lawson for total of less than 13 mil.

I am guessing that Bogdanovic cannot make much over $3M in Europe.
https://www.talkbasket.net/salaries

I am guessing Lawson is going to go for much less than the MLE. Thinking that 3-4M is fine. And since there is a slew of NBA Free Agent point guards, you don't need to overpay.
http://hoopshype.com/2017/06/15/nba-free-agency-2017-point-guards/

Maybe < $8M total?

And I would have no problem offering Porter the max - it is just going to be matched.

[madskillz8]

Bring Bogdanovic and resign Lawson for total of less than 13 mil.

I am guessing that Bogdanovic cannot make much over $3M in Europe.
https://www.talkbasket.net/salaries

I am guessing Lawson is going to go for much less than the MLE. Thinking that 3-4M is fine. And since there is a slew of NBA Free Agent point guards, you don't need to overpay.
http://hoopshype.com/2017/06/15/nba-free-agency-2017-point-guards/

Maybe < $8M total?

And I would have no problem offering Porter the max - it is just going to be matched.

As far as I know the figure that your reference suggests right, and it corresponds to apprx 1.5 mil. USD. But his contract is bargain, way lower than his value. In his team, Udoh and Vesely are getting 3mil USD each. Hence, based on his performance he can find a new contract better than 3mil in Europe. Note that these values are net, that is they are not paying tax or etc. It's mentioned in a recent topic in GB: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1578350.

I think you cannot bring him for less than 7-8 mil., which is fair by considering the market.

[kalenclayton]

As it stands:

Code: Select all

Fox          Mason
Hield        Richardson
Jackson      Temple
Labissiere   Koufos
WCS          Papagiannis


You are forgetting Giles in your depth chart. He takes up a roster spot so he needs to be there.

[PetrieUnderstudy]

Otherwise, I like ingles for this team.

Nice! Someone else likes Ingles for the team. He'll cost a hell of a lot less than Otto and can easily slide to back up next season if we land Porter Jr, Doncic, Bridges, etc. Even though it's unlikely he'll come, Otto would require max and that's a lot for a potential back up.

Why should we sign 10M+ for a 30 years old SF by giving him starting job (dont expect that he will accept backup role for a lottery team), who is not expected to offer a special veteran leadership? He's in his prime, so he can help this young team to win some additional games. This means a worse seed in lottery. On the other hand it's very likely that he wouldn't be a core part of the team when we start to contend. Lose-lose IMO. I'd rather prefer to gamble on Porter given we have a cap space for even more than 2 max, even though it seems like Wizard will match any offer for him. Even if he cannot develop his current performance and will give what he gives this year we can live with it. Fox as a first option and Hield, Skal, Porter.

I understand the age concern but I more concerned about style of play. If we're building a culture on and off the court we need the right guys (i.e. Spurs). The whole team doesn't have to be 24 and under. We aren't getting Otto and we need a SF. He would be a great mentor like Temple on how to be a professional and play the right way. He will make the team better because he can shoot, pass, dribble, and defend. I'm ok with that because I'd like the young guys to be in a competitive environment and ideally make run for playoffs in 2018-19. I believe Vlade is thinking the same thing when he said evaluate me in 2 years. The Kings aren't looking to tank next year and I'm happy about that. Make sound personnel decisions and I think Ingles is one.

[madskillz8]

Nice! Someone else likes Ingles for the team. He'll cost a hell of a lot less than Otto and can easily slide to back up next season if we land Porter Jr, Doncic, Bridges, etc. Even though it's unlikely he'll come, Otto would require max and that's a lot for a potential back up.

Why should we sign 10M+ for a 30 years old SF by giving him starting job (dont expect that he will accept backup role for a lottery team), who is not expected to offer a special veteran leadership? He's in his prime, so he can help this young team to win some additional games. This means a worse seed in lottery. On the other hand it's very likely that he wouldn't be a core part of the team when we start to contend. Lose-lose IMO. I'd rather prefer to gamble on Porter given we have a cap space for even more than 2 max, even though it seems like Wizard will match any offer for him. Even if he cannot develop his current performance and will give what he gives this year we can live with it. Fox as a first option and Hield, Skal, Porter.

I understand the age concern but I more concerned about style of play. If we're building a culture on and off the court we need the right guys (i.e. Spurs). The whole team doesn't have to be 24 and under. We aren't getting Otto and we need a SF. He would be a great mentor like Temple on how to be a professional and play the right way. He will make the team better because he can shoot, pass, dribble, and defend. I'm ok with that because I'd like the young guys to be in a competitive environment and ideally make run for playoffs in 2018-19. I believe Vlade is thinking the same thing when he said evaluate me in 2 years. The Kings aren't looking to tank next year and I'm happy about that. Make sound personnel decisions and I think Ingles is one.

Even though I accept most of your arguments, I just do not see why Joe Ingles would be a great mentor. I'm a fan of his play from Maccabi and Barca days, and happy to see him adjusted his play to NBA even though being non-athletic forward but, he's not what we need I think. I'd rather have Tolliver as a locker room leader. Yes we need a SF but we can still get Deng as a bad contract with a future asset and he can good give us good backup minutes as a SF and a small ball PF while providing a great veteran presence.