Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2

[BobbieL]

Seems like the priority will be winning.... last years priority of losing didn't exactly yield the desired result (#4?)

I think we all know the Suns legitimately could have finished with the worst record in basketball and had the most ping pong balls but the Lakers and with the Celtics in play, were always going to get those picks. There was no way in HELL the NBA would allow the Lakers suckage to continue - meaning losing its first round pick in 2017 as well as the first round pick in 2019. There was zero chance the Lakers were falling out of the top 3 picks. And to get Ball - they needed top 2 - voila, they got it. How convenient


As for the mega deal - I am okay with them not getting Love at the expense of now Josh Jackson. If you had told me it was between Tatum, Isaac and Fox - ehh, if the medicals check out, do it. But not Jackson.

[Frank Lee]

I dont see us as a .500 ball club without making some significant addition/trade. I also dont see the need to compromise future cap space just to be a .500 ball club. We should be better, and if these guys actually keep in the 8-9-10 seed range, then that will be a subtle victory.

Hopes are high, and the Suns hype machine will kick in soon trying to garner season ticket commitments and generate excitement. Bottom line says winning begets more winning and more fan participation. At least we have some very likable players. One step at a time here. This is still an unfinished/unsettled roster.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Seems like the priority will be winning.... last years priority of losing didn't exactly yield the desired result (#4?)

I think development was/is the primary goal of both last year and next season. The growth of the young guys is what McD should be judged and what ultimately decides his fate. Now I realize Watson and his staff are more responsible for the day to day teaching and growth of the players but they were McDs hire and they will also be gone if he isn't extended. I'm not judging this on wins and losses this is about things like do chriss and booker take another step forward in their game, does bender look like a guy who was worth investing a top 5 pick in, does jackson look like he was the right pick. Those are the things they need to judge McD on.

I would say their late season tanking did work last year. Because they had such a bad record when they didn't win the lotto they still picked 4th and got a guy that maybe they would have taken 1 or 2. To me tanking is just as much about improving your worst case scenario as it is improving the odds of the best case scenario.

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[bigfoot]

Long time Suns fan, but lost interest after moving to Miami and watching Sarver ruin the team. I since have become a big Miami Heat fan (Hard not to, the hype during the big 3 era was similar to the hype we had in 93 when Barkley came to the Suns).

That out of the way, here are my thoughts. Suns need to establish a winning culture now. Not trade away players to tank another year. But make some trades to get this young talented bunch some on the court help as well as solid locker room professionals. In order to get in the room with prized FA's you need to show promise. Also having a coach who can put these young players in a system to surprise the league will go a long way in recruitment of FA's.

A funny thing happened here in Miami last year. In a year where we expected to tank, starting the year 10-30 and finishing with one of the best records in the league after the All Star break, it has made other players around the league take notice. In Miami we have a young group surrounded by solid veteran and young coaches who can relate to them. Making a very attractive market for FA's.

During the Colangelo years the Suns had that. The Suns were a well respected organization and was always in the conversations when it came to FA's. It is time to establish winning again and get back into the conversations during free agency. Give the young ones as much playing time as possible with the ultimate goal of winning every game.

The idea that the Suns can't establish a winning culture next year and must do everything possible to win this year is baffling to me. As if no team has ever lost for 3 years while being too young to win and managed to improve. I guess the magic number is 2 years. If your team can't manage to win by then with a bunch of 20 year olds they will be mired in a losing culture and never want to win again.

You all should publish the data behind this 2 year cultural phenomenon. Teams need to know.

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Long time Suns fan, but lost interest after moving to Miami and watching Sarver ruin the team. I since have become a big Miami Heat fan (Hard not to, the hype during the big 3 era was similar to the hype we had in 93 when Barkley came to the Suns).

That out of the way, here are my thoughts. Suns need to establish a winning culture now. Not trade away players to tank another year. But make some trades to get this young talented bunch some on the court help as well as solid locker room professionals. In order to get in the room with prized FA's you need to show promise. Also having a coach who can put these young players in a system to surprise the league will go a long way in recruitment of FA's.

A funny thing happened here in Miami last year. In a year where we expected to tank, starting the year 10-30 and finishing with one of the best records in the league after the All Star break, it has made other players around the league take notice. In Miami we have a young group surrounded by solid veteran and young coaches who can relate to them. Making a very attractive market for FA's.

During the Colangelo years the Suns had that. The Suns were a well respected organization and was always in the conversations when it came to FA's. It is time to establish winning again and get back into the conversations during free agency. Give the young ones as much playing time as possible with the ultimate goal of winning every game.

The idea that the Suns can't establish a winning culture next year and must do everything possible to win this year is baffling to me. As if no team has ever lost for 3 years while being too young to win and managed to improve. I guess the magic number is 2 years. If your team can't manage to win by then with a bunch of 20 year olds they will be mired in a losing culture and never want to win again.

You all should publish the data behind this 2 year cultural phenomenon. Teams need to know.

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

Ok. Whats your specific suggestion for what the suns should be doing this summer?

If the suns don't take a leap this year then what? Since you say its now or never.

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[jredsaz]

Read on Twitter

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Thank God.

Right. It's weird seeing the suns make sane, patient, and rational decisions two summers in a row.

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I just don't see how they don't go after Blake Griffin. Too big a name to not make an attempt at for both basketball and business reasons. If they don't land him I could see them passing on everything else.

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[sunsbg]

Thank God.

Right. It's weird seeing the suns make sane, patient, and rational decisions two summers in a row.

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I just don't see how they don't go after Blake Griffin. Too big a name to not make an attempt at for both basketball and business reasons. If they don't land him I could see them passing on everything else.

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Griffin makes zero sense with Chriss and Bender on the team. Chris Paul is another story. He will accelerate the development of all our young players.

[Frank Lee]

outside of Griffin, I dont see another max type guy we need, or realistically obtain.

Wouldn't be surprised if we dangle something Bogut's way, or Ibaka. We have to shore up the C spot, dont we? Curious as well of McDs opinion on Olynyk. He wasn't there in Boston to draft him (hired May/'13 same yr KO was selected)... but he had to be involved in scouting.

Have to think one or two more roster moves....its in our GM's nature.

heck.... may be we trade Bled for Greg Monroe and sign Livingston or Beverly. IDK... but left field is where McDo thinks. Nothing will surprise me, except predictability.

[Zelaznyrules]

Right. It's weird seeing the suns make sane, patient, and rational decisions two summers in a row.

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I just don't see how they don't go after Blake Griffin. Too big a name to not make an attempt at for both basketball and business reasons. If they don't land him I could see them passing on everything else.

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Griffin makes zero sense with Chriss and Bender on the team. Chris Paul is another story. He will accelerate the development of all our young players.

Has he really accelerated the careers of his young teammates in the past? I think we'd be more likely to hear how this guy can't stand that guy and that guy doesn't like those guys and these guys all hate playing with one guy. And we'd be paying a boatload of money to watch a guy become the next Tyson Chandler (you know, too old to do his job) except this guy rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

[jredsaz]

Right. It's weird seeing the suns make sane, patient, and rational decisions two summers in a row.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

I just don't see how they don't go after Blake Griffin. Too big a name to not make an attempt at for both basketball and business reasons. If they don't land him I could see them passing on everything else.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Griffin makes zero sense with Chriss and Bender on the team. Chris Paul is another story. He will accelerate the development of all our young players.

Chris's and Bender were selected for their versatility. They can shoot from three and guard 1-5 and rim protect. Perfect players to play along side Griffin.

McD has clearly been attempting to build a more positionless roster and Griffin can help with that due to his playmaking.

Booker, Jackson, Chriss, Bender, Griffin in a line up together is super intriguing. A lot of play makers and athletes on the court at one time.

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[bigfoot]

The idea that the Suns can't establish a winning culture next year and must do everything possible to win this year is baffling to me. As if no team has ever lost for 3 years while being too young to win and managed to improve. I guess the magic number is 2 years. If your team can't manage to win by then with a bunch of 20 year olds they will be mired in a losing culture and never want to win again.

You all should publish the data behind this 2 year cultural phenomenon. Teams need to know.

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

Ok. Whats your specific suggestion for what the suns should be doing this summer?

If the suns don't take a leap this year then what? Since you say its now or never.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

You play to win ... not lose. That means keeping Bledsoe, Dudley, and Chandler. It also means playing them at the beginning of the season if they are the better players and win a spot at camp. We should dump Len because he hasn't progressed at either offense or defense to be considered elite. Williams is a better backup and I would prefer Bender and Chriss get some time at the five.

In terms of what if we suck ... I would seek out trades for young players on winning rosters who are stuck behind stars. For example, Kevin Johnson stuck behind Mark Price or Steve Nash stuck behind Jason Kidd/KJ. Those two moves propelled the Suns and the Mavs to relevance. Those kids had a taste of winning ... saw what stars did to make it happen and then got their opportunity and took it. If that means moving some of our young guys and older vets then so be it.

edit: And if there is some miraculous way to get Griffin then we should do it. Let Chriss/Bender/Williams compete for the backup minutes at C/PF/SF. Booker/Griffin/Bledsoe/Chandler and all of our young guys move us way up the playoff ladder.

[BobbieL]

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

Ok. Whats your specific suggestion for what the suns should be doing this summer?

If the suns don't take a leap this year then what? Since you say its now or never.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

You play to win ... not lose. That means keeping Bledsoe, Dudley, and Chandler. It also means playing them at the beginning of the season if they are the better players and win a spot at camp. We should dump Len because he hasn't progressed at either offense or defense to be considered elite. Williams is a better backup and I would prefer Bender and Chriss get some time at the five.

In terms of what if we suck ... I would seek out trades for young players on winning rosters who are stuck behind stars. For example, Kevin Johnson stuck behind Mark Price or Steve Nash stuck behind Jason Kidd/KJ. Those two moves propelled the Suns and the Mavs to relevance. Those kids had a taste of winning ... saw what stars did to make it happen and then got their opportunity and took it. If that means moving some of our young guys and older vets then so be it.

edit: And if there is some miraculous way to get Griffin then we should do it. Let Chriss/Bender/Williams compete for the backup minutes at C/PF/SF. Booker/Griffin/Bledsoe/Chandler and all of our young guys move us way up the playoff ladder.

I agree you play to win. You have four young guys in Booker, Bender, Chriss and Jackson - that's pretty solid. Ulis is a role player, Warren - at the right price, role player. Sauce, role player. Bledsoe at the 1. If Dudley and Chandler are better, they play or get the minues

Len is a tricky one - only give years in. So, do you want to give up on his so quickly. But what I see is a guy that hasn't figured out how to score around the basket. Maybe it happens this year.

I agree about finding an underutilized player - but those are tricky to find. But the Suns do not need another top 5 pick that's for sure

[LukasBMW]

May as well keep Bledsoe. If we can't move him for decent value because other teams have the same concern (his knees), then those same other teams might be a bit hesitant to offer him a supermax in 2 years when he is a free agent.

...especially with the cap leveled out by then and many teams still likely juggling some really bad overpaid contracts from the heroin-like epidemic of ridiculous money that took place last summer and may take place this summer.

I'd rather ride Bledsoe and Tyson for two years as our vet anchors AND then lose them for nothing BUT have cap space in 2019 rather then trade them away for junk leaving us with no chance to compete.

[sunsbg]

I just don't see how they don't go after Blake Griffin. Too big a name to not make an attempt at for both basketball and business reasons. If they don't land him I could see them passing on everything else.

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Griffin makes zero sense with Chriss and Bender on the team. Chris Paul is another story. He will accelerate the development of all our young players.

Has he really accelerated the careers of his young teammates in the past? I think we'd be more likely to hear how this guy can't stand that guy and that guy doesn't like those guys and these guys all hate playing with one guy. And we'd be paying a boatload of money to watch a guy become the next Tyson Chandler (you know, too old to do his job) except this guy rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Has he hindered any player's development ? I actually don't want him on the team, but would prefer him before Griffin.

Griffin + Bledsoe = 35 mins of ISO basketball with the young guys watching from the corners

[Frank Lee]

........

I'd rather ride Bledsoe and Tyson for two years as our vet anchors AND then lose them for nothing BUT have cap space in 2019 rather then trade them away for junk leaving us with no chance to compete.

Seems like the safe bet...easiest play...

They way salaries are blowing up, we could do more harm than good trying to impact this team via free agency. Keep in mind, McDo's job is on the line... however that effects his thinking.

[Puff]

Right. It's weird seeing the suns make sane, patient, and rational decisions two summers in a row.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

I just don't see how they don't go after Blake Griffin. Too big a name to not make an attempt at for both basketball and business reasons. If they don't land him I could see them passing on everything else.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Griffin makes zero sense with Chriss and Bender on the team. Chris Paul is another story. He will accelerate the development of all our young players.

I would rather have Bledsoe than Chris Paul. I really cannot stand his game. Everyone else seems to love him, so be it. He has all the skills but I just can't stand him. It also seems that he has missed on every important shot he has ever taken at winning time in the playoffs while with the Clippers.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

Ok. Whats your specific suggestion for what the suns should be doing this summer?

If the suns don't take a leap this year then what? Since you say its now or never.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

You play to win ... not lose. That means keeping Bledsoe, Dudley, and Chandler. It also means playing them at the beginning of the season if they are the better players and win a spot at camp. We should dump Len because he hasn't progressed at either offense or defense to be considered elite. Williams is a better backup and I would prefer Bender and Chriss get some time at the five.

In terms of what if we suck ... I would seek out trades for young players on winning rosters who are stuck behind stars. For example, Kevin Johnson stuck behind Mark Price or Steve Nash stuck behind Jason Kidd/KJ. Those two moves propelled the Suns and the Mavs to relevance. Those kids had a taste of winning ... saw what stars did to make it happen and then got their opportunity and took it. If that means moving some of our young guys and older vets then so be it.

edit: And if there is some miraculous way to get Griffin then we should do it. Let Chriss/Bender/Williams compete for the backup minutes at C/PF/SF. Booker/Griffin/Bledsoe/Chandler and all of our young guys move us way up the playoff ladder.

Sure thats reasonable. I have no issue making guys beat out jouneymen like barbs or duds for playing time. Hell they did this last year and still had the 3rd worst record in the league when they shut down the vets.

I know guys like warren and len are young in age but its their 4th and 5th years in the league so they are vets at this point. Its not that they cant get better but its also time they are completely held accountable for their play. Booker is near this point too. Hes played a ton of nba minutes so he's responsible for cleaning up some of his defensive mistakes. I also want to see him take a leadership role this year both because i think he has the mental makeup to do it but also because if he really wants to be the face of the franchise then thats part of it.

Your second point about finding blocked young vets I'm all for and they should be doing this already.

Overall I'm all for holding McD accountable and wouldn't just give him an extension. Going young is great and shows a plan but its not a free pass and the young guys need to show they were the right picks. I just don't believe this can or should be only measured with wins this year.

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[AtheJ415]

Long time Suns fan, but lost interest after moving to Miami and watching Sarver ruin the team. I since have become a big Miami Heat fan (Hard not to, the hype during the big 3 era was similar to the hype we had in 93 when Barkley came to the Suns).

That out of the way, here are my thoughts. Suns need to establish a winning culture now. Not trade away players to tank another year. But make some trades to get this young talented bunch some on the court help as well as solid locker room professionals. In order to get in the room with prized FA's you need to show promise. Also having a coach who can put these young players in a system to surprise the league will go a long way in recruitment of FA's.

A funny thing happened here in Miami last year. In a year where we expected to tank, starting the year 10-30 and finishing with one of the best records in the league after the All Star break, it has made other players around the league take notice. In Miami we have a young group surrounded by solid veteran and young coaches who can relate to them. Making a very attractive market for FA's.

During the Colangelo years the Suns had that. The Suns were a well respected organization and was always in the conversations when it came to FA's. It is time to establish winning again and get back into the conversations during free agency. Give the young ones as much playing time as possible with the ultimate goal of winning every game.

The idea that the Suns can't establish a winning culture next year and must do everything possible to win this year is baffling to me. As if no team has ever lost for 3 years while being too young to win and managed to improve. I guess the magic number is 2 years. If your team can't manage to win by then with a bunch of 20 year olds they will be mired in a losing culture and never want to win again.

You all should publish the data behind this 2 year cultural phenomenon. Teams need to know.

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

Let's make this really clear for you. Those teams you listed were ALL drastically older than Phoenix's. Look at the ages. There is an average of 2-4 years gap between the group. Thus, what you are actually proposing is more in line with tanking for 2-4 years than expecting to win next year.

Also, those teams had MVP candidates break out in those years. If you honestly believe Booker and Warren and Chriss are going to become the equivalent of Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka, or the equivalent of Steph and Klay in those specific years, then okay, but I'll call tanking one more year much more reasonable than those scenarios. We drafted the rawest players in the draft. Steph and Klay were 2 or 3 year college players who were older in their classes. We have the literal youngest players in their classes in most of our drafts.

So to be really clear for you, your expectation is insanely unreasonable. Just fyi.

[Frank Lee]

I doubt we will see the orchestrated tank... but reality says unless a couple more significant moves are made, this is a bottom half team in the west. The goal is just to be in the top 2 or 3 of that bottom, and for most of the season, have at least a shot at #8.

Id be happy if I could just watch some basketball into the third Q without a 20+ pt deficit.

[bigfoot]

The idea that the Suns can't establish a winning culture next year and must do everything possible to win this year is baffling to me. As if no team has ever lost for 3 years while being too young to win and managed to improve. I guess the magic number is 2 years. If your team can't manage to win by then with a bunch of 20 year olds they will be mired in a losing culture and never want to win again.

You all should publish the data behind this 2 year cultural phenomenon. Teams need to know.

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

Let's make this really clear for you. Those teams you listed were ALL drastically older than Phoenix's. Look at the ages. There is an average of 2-4 years gap between the group. Thus, what you are actually proposing is more in line with tanking for 2-4 years than expecting to win next year.

Also, those teams had MVP candidates break out in those years. If you honestly believe Booker and Warren and Chriss are going to become the equivalent of Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka, or the equivalent of Steph and Klay in those specific years, then okay, but I'll call tanking one more year much more reasonable than those scenarios. We drafted the rawest players in the draft. Steph and Klay were 2 or 3 year college players who were older in their classes. We have the literal youngest players in their classes in most of our drafts.

So to be really clear for you, your expectation is insanely unreasonable. Just fyi.

Warren 24
Booker 21
Ulis 22
Jackson 20 (21 in Feb 18)
Chriss 20
Bender 20 (professional experience in Europe since the age of 15)
Reed 22
Williams 24
Jones 20
Peters 22

This isn't a bunch of 18/19 year old players like you are making them out to be. We won't have any teenagers (other than Bender) at the start of the season and Bender has been a pro for over four years. This is the team we drafted and it needs to pan out soon. It is wishful thinking that we will add another 18 year old player next year that will suddenly push us into contention. That is what you want to do ... lose now and keep adding 18 year old players with "potential". The season hasn't even started and you said want to trade Bledsoe so we lose. You want to keep riding the lottery merry-go-round for which a lot of teams never get off. That is an unrealistic expectation ... especially when the 2017/2018 season hasn't even started. Think about it.