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Draft Talk Aftermath - Who will win Rookie of the Year?

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If Jackson doesn't win ROY, who do you think will?

Ball
2
6%
Simmons
11
32%
Tatum
4
12%
Fox
1
3%
Fultz
9
26%
Isaac
0
No votes
Markkanen
0
No votes
Monk
0
No votes
Ntilikina
0
No votes
Smith, Jr
7
21%
 
Total votes: 34

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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#921 » by NavLDO » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:54 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
Spin Move wrote:I am a fan of both teams, I live in Scottsdale, and don't disagree with you about the Celtics roster (you go a bit too far on IT but he is a flawed star), but Booker is the only guy who has shown any real glimpse of being a B+ guy, and it is easier to put up stats on a bad team, I am not saying other players won't turn into B or B+ players (and arguably Bledsoe is already a B player). Has Chriss shown some flashes he could turn into something really good, yes, but nothing consistent that he will be an all star,, likley starter sure, all star would be a huge strech, maybe but won't be able to tell for a another year or two. Bender was hurt alot and Dirk had a bad first year too, not saying he won't someday turn into a great player but both of those guys are a long ways away from being anywhere near Paul George, Gorden Hayward or Isiah Thomas. The Suns picked up some really nice pieces in this draft and last, I am a huge Josh Jackson fan (I am originally from Kansas) and he is a perfect fit not just next to booker but as a swiss army 3/4 next to Bender if he pans out. I watch all the nationally televised KU games, he is going to be a star if he improves his mechanics on his shot. Bender is a wild card but Booker looks like a lock to be an all star someday and Jackson and Chriss have a ton of potential, there will likley be one more lottery pick next year and Chandlers deal is getting closer to being done and next offseason can be easily traded. The future is bright.

I think that our guys are actually further along than most people realize. We were in a lot of games last season. Adding depth at 2 and 3 with Jackson and Reed should give us a good boost, not to mention Ulis being in the rotation all season. There's gonna be a lot of chatter about "The Suns are the youngest team in the NBA - HOW ARE THEY THIS GOOD?!" Not in the playoffs by any (except miraculous) means, but they're going to be a lot of people's favorite league-pass team.


And let's not forget Alec Peters; he should be 100% by Season start. I think despite his 'athleticism' and 'physical features', he can get some minutes at the 3 or 4...that is, meaning in this position-less NBA, that there might be some times when Peters is on the floor, and he's the closest thing to having a '3' out on the floor. I mean, let's really look at the physical features comparison between him and TJ:

Alec - 6' 8 3/4" ; 232 ; 6' 10 3/4" Wingspan ; 8' 9" Reach
T.J. - 6' 8 1/4" ; 220 ; 6' 10 1/4" Wingspan ; 8' 8" Reach

So, the 1/2" and 12 lb difference is not a clearly defined 'line in the sand' between SF/PF. My point is, if Peters ends up getting thrown around like a ragdoll when playing the 4, they may consider him more of a 3. But if he's not quick enough, as has been rumored, to guards 3s, well then Coach Watson needs to figure out how best to hide him when he's on the court, and that will be determined by who else he puts on the floor with Peters will dictate whether he's guarding 3s or 4s.

On offense, I think it's fairly clear that we are going to use him primarily as a stretch 4.

Sorry, not trying to derail your point, yet add to it, in that I think Peters skillset, when healthy, might be good enough to earn him a slot on the roster by NLT his 'sophomore season' with us.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#922 » by NavLDO » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:17 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:lol @ NavLDO I will read anything next to his name from now on.


Apparently, I offended some folks, so I 'tamed' it down...

...and yeah, I get that a lot...be "lol'd @" , but that's ok, to me, this forum, being a Suns fan, etc. is for fun and entertainment. This isn't my life, and certainly doesn't define me...do hear that Frank?? The point of being a 'sports fan' is for entertainment and fun; it doesn't define who a person is; nor do my posts, or what other teams I'm a 'fan' of.

Sorry Mulhollanddrive, for opening this can of worms here, but Frank needs to understand this, because he apparently has difficulty in distinguishing between what a person does for entertainment, and what a person's character is. And I can assure you, were you to ask any of the Sailors I've led, or any of the Senior Officers I've served under, the very FIRST trait they would list, as to what are the traits I LEAST exhibit, next to dishonesty and discrimination, would be arrogance. (Now, what might be further down that list aways, might be intelligence, but nothing I can do to help that...what can I say, "life is like a box of chocolates..." :lol: )

Anyway, sorry for the soapbox, Mulhollanddrive...feel free to laugh at my expense anytime! :D
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#923 » by Mjee » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Per Gambo as it stands right now ....Jackson is starting at 3 with warren coming in as our sixth man!! Take it for what it's worth but he hasn't been wrong for quite some time
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#924 » by Frank Lee » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:35 pm

ahhhh... but put on your steelers jersey and it all changes

I managed to hamster taunt you a second time with a crack about sailors. Thanks for the freebie. :lol:
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#925 » by NavLDO » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:36 pm

SlovenianDragon wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:I'd play Booker, Jackson, Chriss together to see what we have.

If we're going deep by 2020 it's going to be primarily them taking us from 25 to 50 wins.


Man we don't know what we have in Jackson yet although I am hyped on him.

Derrick Williams was selected 2nd overall after Kyrie irving...I think

And look how well that worked out.

I have way higher hopes for JJ though. But Warren has proven himself to be a good player in this league. JJ needs to surpass Warren to start.

Theres no way the suns organization is just like, "Warrren you have played really well for us but we just drafted a rookie and hes taking your place"... na na na

JJs going to have to earn it and when he does he will be a better player for it.

Think of it like your normal every day job.....You get hired and there is a guy that's better than you with a better position. You don't just take his job you have to earn the promotion. Work your way up. Its the same in basketball.

And along the way to trying to be promoted you learn and learn to become better....To take that spot that you so desperately want.

YOU NEEED TO FIGHT!


Yes, agreed. The best part in all of this, though, is that Watson will find minutes for Jackson to play. He won't start often, if at all this season, but I bet he still sees 24-28 minutes per night, which is what he needs right now. And if he surpasses Warren in the process, well, good on him, because Warren in continuing to develop and is a 'plus' player in the NBA; he's not going to roll over and let Jackson move in on his spot. The drafting of Jackson is sure to push Warren even more towards greatness; at least that's how I see it. Wow...what a 'positionless' young roster we have...

1-2 -- Ulis, Booker
2-3 -- DJ Jr., Reed
3-4 -- Warren, Jackson, Bender (3-5), Peters
4-5 -- Chriss, Williams, Len(??)

And with his versatility, I have no question that if required, Jackson could defend the 2, in case they wanted to give Booker some opportunities to 'run the show', even if limited, with a roster of Booker, Jackson, Warren, Chriss, Bender.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#926 » by NavLDO » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:49 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Just like an arrogant steeler to call some one arrogant for pointing out their arrogance. I know what I speak of.


I know you do, Frank, that's what's so great! We're all the same...like I said ever Steeler Fan is just like every other Steeler fan, just like every Suns' fan is just like every other Suns' fan...so if you and I are the same for being Suns' fans, Frank...well, I'll let you figure out the rest.

Boy, if you are that way about a team's sports fans, I can only imagine what you are like in real life about OTHER groups of 'like' people...hmmm... :nonono:


I guess my comment would have been all better had I put a smiley face in there. But no need for holier than thou racist implications about real life/other groups. We are talking sports here, and the Steeler fan base is loaded with loud foul mouthed braggarts who show up in throngs, drink/fight like sailors and often more than not have Steeler tattoos.

And thats just the women.

So hey, may be they are not all that way.


Fair enough...I'm not saying there AREN'T those types of Steeler fans, but those types of 'fans' exist in EVERY team's fanbase...look at what just happened with some of our very own Suns' fanbase that thought it important to go 'poke' Celtics fans...one their board...of their own volition. And guess what, this Steeler fan, who is also a Sun's fan, does not approve of that kind of behavior, nor do I when Steeler fans act that way. But if you think there are more of them than other fanbases, I'll be happy to point you to a forum where Steeler fans are attacked on their board a heck of a lot more than that group of Steeler fans go and act petty and in that fashion, with the need to go and act the same. So no, I do not believe that their are any greater % of 'arrogant' Steeler fans' than other...and no, it's not because I turn a blind eye to it, I've commented on it just like I did in this post.

But you are right...that is just the women...JUST KIDDING!!!!! before anyone calls ne a hypocrite...again...fun, fans, sports, response...that's it...just like had Frank quantified his statement, rather than lump EVERY fan into the base, this whole back and forth wouldn't even have taken place.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#927 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:49 pm

Mjeezy2006 wrote:Per Gambo as it stands right now ....Jackson is starting at 3 with warren coming in as our sixth man!! Take it for what it's worth but he hasn't been wrong for quite some time


I was wondering if that may have been the promise that was enough to make him shut down a workout in Boston. Seems like a hefty one, and obviously not sure, but for Gambo to already state that seems a bit strange.

It somewhat makes sense starting him next to Booker due to Booker's D if his defense lives up to how he played in college, but I probably wouldn't just yet because it shows a bit of disrespect to Warren after playing so well last season in his first year starting to let a rookie without a minute of time in the NBA to start on day one over him. I'd probably start Warren, but bring him out first, to give Jackson more time with Booker.

Of course it's just a rumor for now though.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#928 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:58 pm

SlovenianDragon wrote:Sorry if I'm getting kinda salty about people forgetting about Warren....But I love the guy. And I feel like people are just forgetting about him.







Warrens so good off the ball has high BB IQ and has a silky smooth shot.

And just because we haven't seen Warren for many months doesn't mean he doesn't exist. I'm sure hes still working on his game and will start next season just as good as he left off. JJ will have to work very hard to take the starting roll from Warren. Unless Warren come back to training camp at 300 pounds that is.


Jackson doesn't deserve to start on day 1, or rather Warren doesn't deserve to be benched for a rookie on day 1, but McD perhaps made that sort of promise to get him to shut down the workout. Hopefully if it's the case, Watson tells him in a positive way that they need his offensive firepower off the bench just like a Harden, Ginobili or even how Iguodala comes off the bench to lead the second unit and Warren can embrace that role.
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Re: RE: Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#929 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:03 pm

carey wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Not saying it's right, but the majority of top 5 picks start for opening night historically.

Bender did not. It'll be interesting whatever they decide.


I don't even know for sure that if the majority do, especially in this one and done era. Many do because their teams are so bad, but I can't recall if D Lo, Okafor or even Porzingis started on day one. Jaylen Brown certainly didn't obviously. Simmons, Embiid or Noel, but obviously I guess those shouldn't count.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#930 » by Qwigglez » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:25 pm

I actually want to see if a lineup consisting of Bledsoe/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Chriss and see how they do. Not to start a game but maybe during some stretch of the game. Hopefully Warren will improve his range this off-season because that will open up the floor for everybody.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#931 » by Villalobos » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:50 pm

Sounds like Fultz didn't want to go to Boston either

And one of the reasons Tatum is a Celtic, and not say, Markelle Fultz who was selected first overall by the Philadelphia 76ers nor Josh Jackson (selected fourth by the Phoenix Suns) is because Tatum wanted to be in Boston.

Jackson and Fultz on the other hand were not as enthralled. And according to ESPN basketball insider Jeff Goodman, that was a major reason as to the Celts traded down from the top overall spot and Jackson and Fultz are elsewhere.
“When I was talking to Fultz early on about the Celtics, and I said ‘is it good that you have a chance to play on a team that could make the playoffs?” Goodman continued. “And I sensed that he was not happy that he [would be] playing on this team that’s already established.”


could be part of why they traded the pick

http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/15957-markelle-fultz-josh-jackson-were-worried-about-playing-time-on-boston-celtics
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#932 » by NTB » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:04 pm

Read on Twitter
carey wrote:It is 2-time, every time.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#933 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:26 pm

@kpelton #peltonmailbag rank the first 10 picks based on their ability to contribute in 2017-18. Like, who's ready RIGHT NOW?
12:06 PM - 23 Jun 2017

I'd say:

1. Lonzo Ball

2. Dennis Smith Jr.

3. Markelle Fultz

Fultz is certainly ready to play minutes. I'm not sure he's ready to help the 76ers win. He'll have to be very good offensively to do so, given poor defensive habits, and Fultz's projected true shooting percentage is actually the worst of any top-10 pick. Particularly in transition, I expect Ball to have a more immediate impact.

Smith's numbers at North Carolina State were similar to Fultz's at Washington, and I think he's probably in a slightly better position to succeed right away playing in the Dallas Mavericks' spread pick-and-roll offense. Depending on what Dallas does in free agency, Smith is a Rookie of the Year contender.

4. Josh Jackson

5. Jonathan Isaac

Both of these forwards should be capable defenders next season. We'll see whether either can stretch the defense enough to fill a 3-and-D role right away.

6. Zach Collins

7. Lauri Markkanen

Collins should be a contributor off the bench right away. Markkanen's floor spacing should translate, though it may take some time for him to get settled in defensively.

8. Jayson Tatum

Yes, Tatum's midrange-based game is similar to that of many NBA combo forwards. However, making those plays against NBA-caliber defenders is entirely different, and Tatum may not have much opportunity in Boston.

9. De'Aaron Fox

10. Frank Ntilikina

Ntilikina may be able to contribute defensively immediately, but he's got a long way to go offensively. Given Fox's shooting concerns, expect defenses to go under pick-and-rolls against him and make it difficult to get to the paint. He can get there, but it may take a while.


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19730575/kevin-pelton-weekly-mailbag-including-most-prepared-rookies
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#934 » by JMac1 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:38 pm

Mjeezy2006 wrote:Per Gambo as it stands right now ....Jackson is starting at 3 with warren coming in as our sixth man!! Take it for what it's worth but he hasn't been wrong for quite some time


If anyone thinks JJ needs to or has to "earn" his minutes, they are living in fantasy land. JJ will learn trial by fire. No time to be wasting with this earning crap. Either he has it or he doesn't, the sooner we find out the better. We know what trajectory TJ is on already. It is a good one, but not in the stratosphere of what we hope JJ becomes.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#935 » by MrMiyagi » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:55 pm

SlovenianDragon wrote:Sorry if I'm getting kinda salty about people forgetting about Warren....But I love the guy. And I feel like people are just forgetting about him.







Warrens so good off the ball has high BB IQ and has a silky smooth shot.

And just because we haven't seen Warren for many months doesn't mean he doesn't exist. I'm sure hes still working on his game and will start next season just as good as he left off. JJ will have to work very hard to take the starting roll from Warren. Unless Warren come back to training camp at 300 pounds that is.


I don't think we're forgetting Warren, just that we're thinking of rotations that make the most sense. Having Jackson next to Booker makes more sense than TJ next to Booker because Jackson can defend on the perimeter better than TJ, and we need that. TJ will be a super 6th man, making our bench extremely dangerous. Not to mention Ulis getting Reed, Bender and Sauce easy buckets.

It's not about believing Jackson is better than TJ already or that TJ is chopped liver, it's about making a lineup that won't drop off at any point in the game.

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/Reed
Jackson/TJ
Chriss/Bender
Chandler/Sauce

This rotation looks (at least on paper) to give us a very good balance of offense and defense for both our starters and bench. TJ is not an ego guy. He's looking to get buckets and help the team. He'll do both greatly off the bench.
SHAZAM!

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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#936 » by Spin Move » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:14 pm

Warren and Ullis are the start of a good bench, good playoff teams have solid players that back up the stars, Jackson is going to start, he has much more potetial then Warren does even though warren is a solid NBA player. I don't think this team is going to win a lot of games this year due to their youth, young teams rarley win in the NBA while there is a ton of potential future talent on this team it is not ripe yet. They also play in the tough western conference. 1. GS, San Antonio, Houston, Minnesota, OKC, and Portland are clearly better teams right now. Who knows what happens with the Clips or Jazz if they retain their pieces they are significantly better too. NO is hard to judge but they have AD and Cousins, they will be good or one will be traded. The Nuggets are pretty good probably a little better but if our young players show alot of growth in the offseason they perhaps could be caught. The mavs are a wierd team but very experienced, I would say them and the suns are about on par going into next season but we are only clearly better then the lakers and Kings this minute....in 2 years that will be different. I would not be surprised by a sub 30 win season, I would be surprised by an over 35 win season, even so I think this team will be fun to watch and look forward to seeing them play. Jackson Booker, Chriss is a nice foundation, I am curious what happens at the PG spot
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#937 » by Saberestar » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:26 pm

Mjeezy2006 wrote:Per Gambo as it stands right now ....Jackson is starting at 3 with warren coming in as our sixth man!! Take it for what it's worth but he hasn't been wrong for quite some time

When Gambo said that?
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#938 » by Mjee » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:41 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Mjeezy2006 wrote:Per Gambo as it stands right now ....Jackson is starting at 3 with warren coming in as our sixth man!! Take it for what it's worth but he hasn't been wrong for quite some time

When Gambo said that?


Friday at the beginning of his show
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#939 » by Bogyo » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:13 pm

Spin Move wrote:Warren and Ullis are the start of a good bench, good playoff teams have solid players that back up the stars, Jackson is going to start, he has much more potetial then Warren does even though warren is a solid NBA player. I don't think this team is going to win a lot of games this year due to their youth, young teams rarley win in the NBA while there is a ton of potential future talent on this team it is not ripe yet. They also play in the tough western conference. 1. GS, San Antonio, Houston, Minnesota, OKC, and Portland are clearly better teams right now. Who knows what happens with the Clips or Jazz if they retain their pieces they are significantly better too. NO is hard to judge but they have AD and Cousins, they will be good or one will be traded. The Nuggets are pretty good probably a little better but if our young players show alot of growth in the offseason they perhaps could be caught. The mavs are a wierd team but very experienced, I would say them and the suns are about on par going into next season but we are only clearly better then the lakers and Kings this minute....in 2 years that will be different. I would not be surprised by a sub 30 win season, I would be surprised by an over 35 win season, even so I think this team will be fun to watch and look forward to seeing them play. Jackson Booker, Chriss is a nice foundation, I am curious what happens at the PG spot


Pretty much my sentiments as well, spot on. I think we'll have about a 31 win o/u in Vegas when the season starts, and only my homer side would take the over. If the Clips and the Jazz remain the same, I don't really see how we win more games than last years Minnesota team with KAT and Wiggins. This also means a 6th-10th lottery pick, a 29-33 win season usually gets you there.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#940 » by Saberestar » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:14 pm

Mjeezy2006 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Mjeezy2006 wrote:Per Gambo as it stands right now ....Jackson is starting at 3 with warren coming in as our sixth man!! Take it for what it's worth but he hasn't been wrong for quite some time

When Gambo said that?


Friday at the beginning of his show

Well, TBH he said that HE THINKS that Jackson is gonna start.

He has not heard that from the Suns, it is his opinion.

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