Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2

[bigfoot]

I doubt we will see the orchestrated tank... but reality says unless a couple more significant moves are made, this is a bottom half team in the west. The goal is just to be in the top 2 or 3 of that bottom, and for most of the season, have at least a shot at #8.

Id be happy if I could just watch some basketball into the third Q without a 20+ pt deficit.

Yes I don't expect the Suns to dump Bledsoe so we can lose. Come late October we will put the best product on the floor possible and if it doesn't pan out the tank will begin to roll in February. At that time, I would expect Chandler, Bledsoe, Dudley and some of our young players to be moved.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

As I see the west -

The top is likely to consolidate around GSW/SAS/HOU, with the Clippers falling either a little or completely out and the Jazz falling back into fringe playoff status unless Hayward can be convinced to stay. That's a situation I'm super intrigued with - with Hayward and George falling out, Gobert becomes the alpha and omega of all things Jazz. How many years until they consider dealing him? And who would be willing to pay a higher price than us?

After that, there are five teams that should make the playoffs based on their talent - MIN, NOP, OKC, MEM and POR. It's possible NOP isn't able to coalesce. That would be terrible news given their current time frame. Their implosion would be an opportunity for several potential poachers, including us.

Then there are a collection of teams that have the potential to surprise or fall flat: hard to predict. DAL, DEN, LAL, PHX. UTA is kind of in this group, as we can expect that will be as good as those teams, but their upside appears (to me) to be pretty limited, given the talent they've lost.

SAC is the only team that I'm confident cannot make the playoffs. LAC could be anywhere from #4 to #15 in the west depending on how free agency goes.

I think the Bled/Ulis PG rotation will be among the best at that spot in the league over an 82 game season. But other than that, I just don't think our young guys will know how to win - ball movement and turnovers should be problems on offense, while rim protection and perimeter defense should continue to be issues on the other end.

Unless Josh Jackson can come in and change things significantly from the start and one of Bender/Chriss emerge as an above replacement level player at 20 YO, I don't see us having much of a shot to make the playoffs.

One move I would love to see us make, if possible, is landing Deandre Jordan. If he could be had without losing any of our core young guys, I would do that. Maybe once the Clippers lose out in free agency, one of the MIA picks could be a catalyst to getting him. Otherwise, I don't see how we get to the playoffs.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

With regard to offseason moves, obviously our top goals should be ditching the legacy contracts while filling our locker room with high character players. To that end, I think we should be eyeing some of the league's other bad contracts - who would be better fits than Knight and Chandler?

Particularly curious to see what kind of deals get handed out this summer. Doesn't look the dollars are going to fly quite as much as last year, but I'm always surprised by what the market will bear. Hopefully deals are too expensive for most teams and we get calls about our overpriced guys. If Holiday leaves NOP, for instance, maybe Knight becomes a target. I'll look around...

[Kerrsed]

I like Blake. I like his game. He is effective and fun to watch. Like many of our recent draftee's, he is a jack of all trades kind of guy and can do a bit of everything.

I also like the fact that his is a superstar, still somewhat young, and has shown interest in playing in Phoenix (Something that has been hard to come by as of late). You have a physical PF that averages 22/8/5. Has great Basketball IQ as well. Thats exactly the kind of guy i want.

Sure people are scared that he will stunt the growth of some of our youngsters, but who is to say that our youngsters will actually reach their full potential? I mean i look at Len, and we have given him every opportunity to show us what he has, and in my eyes failed. He couldnt even take the starting spot from a 34 year old Chandler. Now im more hopeful for Chriss and to some point Bender, but you dont pass up an opportunity to grab a player like Blake. I mean im a Chriss fan, but do i think he has the potential to be better than Blake? No.

I would like to see Chriss put on some more weight/muscle and try him out as a C. He already likes to play and protect the paint, he has good size and great length. See what he can do as a stretch 5, what can hurt?

I also am thinking about the Rubio idea. I think the Wolves would become DEADLY adding Bledsoe with the addition of Jimmy Butler. Bledsoe/Butler/Wiggins/Towns/Dieng, thats a pretty brutal team that i would love to have. If we could get back just Rubio and a future pick or pickswap, i would be happy. Rubio would bring us that defense that Bledsoe used to play, but more importantly, he would be able to help set up are young guys.

So i would call the Wolves and make the trade 1st, then offer Blake a max contract and have him lead us into this new era of Suns Basketball.

Rubio/Booker/JJ/Griffin/Chriss

Everyone knows i have been all about the tank, but the tank needs to end sooner rather than later, before our youngsters get tired of losing and look to play elsewhere and other teams players just write off playing for the Suns, like some already have. We already have tons of youth, and plenty of future picks to ensure we will continue to. Time to get them some wins and start building a winning culture.

[bigfoot]

I like Blake. I like his game. He is effective and fun to watch. Like many of our recent draftee's, he is a jack of all trades kind of guy and can do a bit of everything.

I also like the fact that his is a superstar, still somewhat young, and has shown interest in playing in Phoenix (Something that has been hard to come by as of late). You have a physical PF that averages 22/8/5. Has great Basketball IQ as well. Thats exactly the kind of guy i want.

Sure people are scared that he will stunt the growth of some of our youngsters, but who is to say that our youngsters will actually reach their full potential? I mean i look at Len, and we have given him every opportunity to show us what he has, and in my eyes failed. He couldnt even take the starting spot from a 34 year old Chandler. Now im more hopeful for Chriss and to some point Bender, but you dont pass up an opportunity to grab a player like Blake. I mean im a Chriss fan, but do i think he has the potential to be better than Blake? No.

I would like to see Chriss put on some more weight/muscle and try him out as a C. He already likes to play and protect the paint, he has good size and great length. See what he can do as a stretch 5, what can hurt?

I also am thinking about the Rubio idea. I think the Wolves would become DEADLY adding Bledsoe with the addition of Jimmy Butler. Bledsoe/Butler/Wiggins/Towns/Dieng, thats a pretty brutal team that i would love to have. If we could get back just Rubio and a future pick or pickswap, i would be happy. Rubio would bring us that defense that Bledsoe used to play, but more importantly, he would be able to help set up are young guys.

So i would call the Wolves and make the trade 1st, then offer Blake a max contract and have him lead us into this new era of Suns Basketball.

Rubio/Booker/JJ/Griffin/Chriss

Everyone knows i have been all about the tank, but the tank needs to end sooner rather than later, before our youngsters get tired of losing and look to play elsewhere and other teams players just write off playing for the Suns, like some already have. We already have tons of youth, and plenty of future picks to ensure we will continue to. Time to get them some wins and start building a winning culture.

I am all in for Blake but not so excited about Rubio. Bledsoe and Blake grew up together on the Clips. I would think Bledsoe would help with the recruiting of Griffin.

[Zelaznyrules]

I doubt we will see the orchestrated tank... but reality says unless a couple more significant moves are made, this is a bottom half team in the west. The goal is just to be in the top 2 or 3 of that bottom, and for most of the season, have at least a shot at #8.

Id be happy if I could just watch some basketball into the third Q without a 20+ pt deficit.

If that's all you're looking for you could have watched a lot of Suns basketball last season. We struggled in the first more than I would have liked but it was typically the 4th quarter that did us in. I know this isn't exactly what you said but we actually only entered the 4th with a 20+ point deficit 6 times.

[jredsaz]

Griffin makes zero sense with Chriss and Bender on the team. Chris Paul is another story. He will accelerate the development of all our young players.

Has he really accelerated the careers of his young teammates in the past? I think we'd be more likely to hear how this guy can't stand that guy and that guy doesn't like those guys and these guys all hate playing with one guy. And we'd be paying a boatload of money to watch a guy become the next Tyson Chandler (you know, too old to do his job) except this guy rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Has he hindered any player's development ? I actually don't want him on the team, but would prefer him before Griffin.

Griffin + Bledsoe = 35 mins of ISO basketball with the young guys watching from the corners

Griffin is a better player than that and a better distributor of the ball than Bledsoe. Bledsoes ball stopping tendencies bother me as well. Frankly, signing Griffin would allow Bledsoe to play off the ball more and Griffin is a high level facilitator.

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[TOO]

I like Blake. I like his game. He is effective and fun to watch. Like many of our recent draftee's, he is a jack of all trades kind of guy and can do a bit of everything.

I also like the fact that his is a superstar, still somewhat young, and has shown interest in playing in Phoenix (Something that has been hard to come by as of late). You have a physical PF that averages 22/8/5. Has great Basketball IQ as well. Thats exactly the kind of guy i want.

Sure people are scared that he will stunt the growth of some of our youngsters, but who is to say that our youngsters will actually reach their full potential? I mean i look at Len, and we have given him every opportunity to show us what he has, and in my eyes failed. He couldnt even take the starting spot from a 34 year old Chandler. Now im more hopeful for Chriss and to some point Bender, but you dont pass up an opportunity to grab a player like Blake. I mean im a Chriss fan, but do i think he has the potential to be better than Blake? No.

I would like to see Chriss put on some more weight/muscle and try him out as a C. He already likes to play and protect the paint, he has good size and great length. See what he can do as a stretch 5, what can hurt?

I also am thinking about the Rubio idea. I think the Wolves would become DEADLY adding Bledsoe with the addition of Jimmy Butler. Bledsoe/Butler/Wiggins/Towns/Dieng, thats a pretty brutal team that i would love to have. If we could get back just Rubio and a future pick or pickswap, i would be happy. Rubio would bring us that defense that Bledsoe used to play, but more importantly, he would be able to help set up are young guys.

So i would call the Wolves and make the trade 1st, then offer Blake a max contract and have him lead us into this new era of Suns Basketball.

Rubio/Booker/JJ/Griffin/Chriss

Everyone knows i have been all about the tank, but the tank needs to end sooner rather than later, before our youngsters get tired of losing and look to play elsewhere and other teams players just write off playing for the Suns, like some already have. We already have tons of youth, and plenty of future picks to ensure we will continue to. Time to get them some wins and start building a winning culture.

I am all in for Blake but not so excited about Rubio. Bledsoe and Blake grew up together on the Clips. I would think Bledsoe would help with the recruiting of Griffin.

Personally, I feel like the fun Blake is gone. He doesnt look nearly as explosive as he used to. He doesnt really defend, his rebounding has been in a steady decline since his rookie year, sure he's a big name, but he's not gonna be a guy other stars want to line up to play with. Who ever talks about recruiting or playing with Blake Griffin? Nobody, he's a diva. What good does signing a guy, in the middle of his prime, and then putting him in front of 2 20yo PF you drafted last year do? Can Blake play C? We need a C more than a PF, I dont want guy taking up Chriss' time, or Benders time, it would just be poor roster management. We've suffered through enough of that, overloading positions, causing unhappiness. Let the kids play, if they cant, then you go in a different direction.

[jredsaz]

The idea that the Suns can't establish a winning culture next year and must do everything possible to win this year is baffling to me. As if no team has ever lost for 3 years while being too young to win and managed to improve. I guess the magic number is 2 years. If your team can't manage to win by then with a bunch of 20 year olds they will be mired in a losing culture and never want to win again.

You all should publish the data behind this 2 year cultural phenomenon. Teams need to know.

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

Let's make this really clear for you. Those teams you listed were ALL drastically older than Phoenix's. Look at the ages. There is an average of 2-4 years gap between the group. Thus, what you are actually proposing is more in line with tanking for 2-4 years than expecting to win next year.

Also, those teams had MVP candidates break out in those years. If you honestly believe Booker and Warren and Chriss are going to become the equivalent of Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka, or the equivalent of Steph and Klay in those specific years, then okay, but I'll call tanking one more year much more reasonable than those scenarios. We drafted the rawest players in the draft. Steph and Klay were 2 or 3 year college players who were older in their classes. We have the literal youngest players in their classes in most of our drafts.

So to be really clear for you, your expectation is insanely unreasonable. Just fyi.

Age isn't as important as contract years. Need to be making deel playoff runs in four years to make sure Booker stays enamoured with being a Sun. In order to do that tanking needs to be set aside.

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[AtheJ415]

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

Let's make this really clear for you. Those teams you listed were ALL drastically older than Phoenix's. Look at the ages. There is an average of 2-4 years gap between the group. Thus, what you are actually proposing is more in line with tanking for 2-4 years than expecting to win next year.

Also, those teams had MVP candidates break out in those years. If you honestly believe Booker and Warren and Chriss are going to become the equivalent of Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka, or the equivalent of Steph and Klay in those specific years, then okay, but I'll call tanking one more year much more reasonable than those scenarios. We drafted the rawest players in the draft. Steph and Klay were 2 or 3 year college players who were older in their classes. We have the literal youngest players in their classes in most of our drafts.

So to be really clear for you, your expectation is insanely unreasonable. Just fyi.

Warren 24
Booker 21
Ulis 22
Jackson 20 (21 in Feb 18)
Chriss 20
Bender 20 (professional experience in Europe since the age of 15)
Reed 22
Williams 24
Jones 20
Peters 22

This isn't a bunch of 18/19 year old players like you are making them out to be. We won't have any teenagers (other than Bender) at the start of the season and Bender has been a pro for over four years. This is the team we drafted and it needs to pan out soon. It is wishful thinking that we will add another 18 year old player next year that will suddenly push us into contention. That is what you want to do ... lose now and keep adding 18 year old players with "potential". The season hasn't even started and you said want to trade Bledsoe so we lose. You want to keep riding the lottery merry-go-round for which a lot of teams never get off. That is an unrealistic expectation ... especially when the 2017/2018 season hasn't even started. Think about it.

They are literally closer to 18/19 than they are to the ages of Steph Curry and Klay Thompson and the Warriors. The key guys on those teams are all older than the team you listed by a large margin, and to judge expectation by years of experience without consideration of age is misguided and irresponsible, and will destine you to failed expectations.

Curry was 24 in 2013-2014 (their breakout year). Hell, let's compare their roster:

Steve Blake (34)
Andrew Bogut (30)
Andre Iguodala (30)
David Lee (31)
Jermaine Freaking O'Neal (36)
Marreese Speights (25)
Klay Thompson (24)

That means their youngest key player was the age Booker will be in season 2021, that Ulis, DJones, Jackson, Chriss, and Bender will be in 2022.

Looking at it by years of pro experience without factoring in age is insane. Bender being a pro since 15 does not mean he is somehow ready to step up to perform like an MVP candidate just because somebody like Steph Curry did in their 3rd year despite still playing as a college freshman at the same age.

[AtheJ415]

In fact, one of the #1 keys to winning in the NBA is age, and youth is one of the most common factors in losing teams. This is statistical fact.

[TOO]

Let's make this really clear for you. The two modern teams that have built through the draft are the Warriors and the Thunder

GSW went from 23-43 to 47-35 with Curry (3yrs), Thompson (1), Barnes (R), and Green (R) with Lee, Jack, Bogut, Jefferson, and Landry as the vets

OKC went from 23-59 to 50-32 with Durant (2yrs), Green (2), Westbrook (1), Harden (R) and Ibaka (R) and Sefolosha, Krstic, and Collison as the vets

Also, our Suns team from 87/88 to 88/89 went from 28-54 to 55-27 with KJ (1), Hornacek (2), Gilliam (1), Marjele (R), Lang (R), Perry (R) with Chambers, EJ, and West as our vets.

These teams were as young as the Suns. If Booker (2), Warren (3), Chriss (1), Bender (1), Jackson (R), Ulis (1), Jones (1), and Reed (R) with Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley, and Barbosa as vets don't show us something this year by at least competing for the 8th seed then they will never have it what it takes to be a top seed. Teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Clippers have been doormats for years and years getting the top picks and never making it anywhere. Tanking doesn't guarantee you anything. This team needs to win now.

Let's make this really clear for you. Those teams you listed were ALL drastically older than Phoenix's. Look at the ages. There is an average of 2-4 years gap between the group. Thus, what you are actually proposing is more in line with tanking for 2-4 years than expecting to win next year.

Also, those teams had MVP candidates break out in those years. If you honestly believe Booker and Warren and Chriss are going to become the equivalent of Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka, or the equivalent of Steph and Klay in those specific years, then okay, but I'll call tanking one more year much more reasonable than those scenarios. We drafted the rawest players in the draft. Steph and Klay were 2 or 3 year college players who were older in their classes. We have the literal youngest players in their classes in most of our drafts.

So to be really clear for you, your expectation is insanely unreasonable. Just fyi.

Age isn't as important as contract years. Need to be making deel playoff runs in four years to make sure Booker stays enamoured with being a Sun. In order to do that tanking needs to be set aside.

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The way FA is now, nobody will leave while they have RFA status, we'll have control of Booker and Co for like 8 years plus, I'm not worried about anyone leaving. It doesnt make financial sense.

[AtheJ415]

I can't believe in the Warriors and super team era we have fans pining for this particular team to get Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, and Ricky Rubio. Guys, this team is so not ready for that. The net effects of adding them are all negative except for wins this season. It goes against every long-term goal. Now is not the team to short-circuit the rebuild and cut corners.

[bigfoot]

In fact, one of the #1 keys to winning in the NBA is age, and youth is one of the most common factors in losing teams. This is statistical fact.

I agree the age is a key to winning. Yet you suggest we get rid of Bledsoe ... one of our older players so we lose. That is problem I have. You want us to lose already before the season starts. Is that not what you said ?? Go for tank and listed four top prospect for next year who are all 18.

[Zelaznyrules]

In fact, one of the #1 keys to winning in the NBA is age, and youth is one of the most common factors in losing teams. This is statistical fact.

I agree the age is a key to winning. Yet you suggest we get rid of Bledsoe ... one of our older players so we lose. That is problem I have. You want us to lose already before the season starts. Is that not what you said ?? Go for tank and listed four top prospect for next year who are all 18.

He does but most of us that want to trade Bledsoe prefer to do it, not in order to lose, but to avoid his next contract. I guess we could just let him play out his string and sign somewhere else but trading him now has the advantage of giving Ulis more PT and perhaps brings us an asset in return that we won't get if we lose him for nothing.

[AtheJ415]

In fact, one of the #1 keys to winning in the NBA is age, and youth is one of the most common factors in losing teams. This is statistical fact.

I agree the age is a key to winning. Yet you suggest we get rid of Bledsoe ... one of our older players so we lose. That is problem I have. You want us to lose already before the season starts. Is that not what you said ?? Go for tank and listed four top prospect for next year who are all 18.

Absolutely. Tanking is the best way for us to get to title contention in the long run. We have a nice set of players but not enough to really contend with some other young cores as it stands right now, and adding one of those 4 would put us ahead or on par with the best of cores. Keeping and playing Bledsoe does a number of things: 1. Ensure we win more games despite having no real shot at the playoffs, thus getting us a late lottery pick instead of a top pick. 2. Put us 1 year closer to the end of his contract, thus minimizing his trade value. 3. Because of 2, put us in a bind that almost ensures we have to re-sign him, thus tying up about 30 million a year in cap space, and 4. Limit minutes for Ulis, thus hampering development relative to the alternative scenario.

You don't try to lose, you simply play the youngsters and watch them lose because teams at that age (guys 19-22 for the most part and one or 2 24 year olds) do not win in the NBA. It does not happen.

[bwgood77]

I seriously don't think the front office will go after Blake Griffin. Firstly, I think they love Chriss and Bender and Watson raves about Chriss and I think they want to give them as many minutes and have them on the floor as much as possible. I think McD even just said this.

Secondly, I think they like having Booker be the face of the franchise and main guy. He is marketable. And while Blake Griffin is very marketable, he immediately becomes, by default, the face of the franchise, particularly for the casual fans who will begin to take interest. While in the past I think Sarver would have wanted this, and I think he may still decide on that course, it feels like he is high on Booker being the guy.

He has also been extremely injury prone the last couple of seasons and with his dunking game he probably sooner than later goes the way of Amare. And while he is a great passer and midrange shooter, I just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to sign him if we want this team to grow and get better and maximize the guys' potential that we endured bad season of to draft.

As for Bledsoe, if Lowry bolts, I wonder if Toronto will show interest. Not sure what they could offer that we'd want other than maybe Joseph, Powell and a first.

[MrMiyagi]

I think we should stop all this talk about FAs we should sign (I don't think there are any tbh). We need to start praying for some of these free agent PGs and SGs to get fat-ass deals so Knight looks like an appealing alternative.

[Damkac]

Most of playing time should go to youth. If Suns are playoffs team or close to then great, they develop quick. If Suns are bad team then also great, another high pick.

And I don't understand why anybody is discussing Chris Paul. He is one of the great players without the ring and already 32. Why would he even consider signing on rebuilding team?

[Frank Lee]

Were going to have to address the C spot, one way or another. I see guys like Bogut, Ibaka, Gibson being appealing to McD. Don't know what we do, but we can't continue to send the lambs to slaughter