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Draft Talk Aftermath - Who will win Rookie of the Year?

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If Jackson doesn't win ROY, who do you think will?

Ball
2
6%
Simmons
11
32%
Tatum
4
12%
Fox
1
3%
Fultz
9
26%
Isaac
0
No votes
Markkanen
0
No votes
Monk
0
No votes
Ntilikina
0
No votes
Smith, Jr
7
21%
 
Total votes: 34

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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#941 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:23 pm

NavLDO wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Spin Move wrote:I am a fan of both teams, I live in Scottsdale, and don't disagree with you about the Celtics roster (you go a bit too far on IT but he is a flawed star), but Booker is the only guy who has shown any real glimpse of being a B+ guy, and it is easier to put up stats on a bad team, I am not saying other players won't turn into B or B+ players (and arguably Bledsoe is already a B player). Has Chriss shown some flashes he could turn into something really good, yes, but nothing consistent that he will be an all star,, likley starter sure, all star would be a huge strech, maybe but won't be able to tell for a another year or two. Bender was hurt alot and Dirk had a bad first year too, not saying he won't someday turn into a great player but both of those guys are a long ways away from being anywhere near Paul George, Gorden Hayward or Isiah Thomas. The Suns picked up some really nice pieces in this draft and last, I am a huge Josh Jackson fan (I am originally from Kansas) and he is a perfect fit not just next to booker but as a swiss army 3/4 next to Bender if he pans out. I watch all the nationally televised KU games, he is going to be a star if he improves his mechanics on his shot. Bender is a wild card but Booker looks like a lock to be an all star someday and Jackson and Chriss have a ton of potential, there will likley be one more lottery pick next year and Chandlers deal is getting closer to being done and next offseason can be easily traded. The future is bright.

I think that our guys are actually further along than most people realize. We were in a lot of games last season. Adding depth at 2 and 3 with Jackson and Reed should give us a good boost, not to mention Ulis being in the rotation all season. There's gonna be a lot of chatter about "The Suns are the youngest team in the NBA - HOW ARE THEY THIS GOOD?!" Not in the playoffs by any (except miraculous) means, but they're going to be a lot of people's favorite league-pass team.


And let's not forget Alec Peters; he should be 100% by Season start. I think despite his 'athleticism' and 'physical features', he can get some minutes at the 3 or 4...that is, meaning in this position-less NBA, that there might be some times when Peters is on the floor, and he's the closest thing to having a '3' out on the floor. I mean, let's really look at the physical features comparison between him and TJ:

Alec - 6' 8 3/4" ; 232 ; 6' 10 3/4" Wingspan ; 8' 9" Reach
T.J. - 6' 8 1/4" ; 220 ; 6' 10 1/4" Wingspan ; 8' 8" Reach

So, the 1/2" and 12 lb difference is not a clearly defined 'line in the sand' between SF/PF. My point is, if Peters ends up getting thrown around like a ragdoll when playing the 4, they may consider him more of a 3. But if he's not quick enough, as has been rumored, to guards 3s, well then Coach Watson needs to figure out how best to hide him when he's on the court, and that will be determined by who else he puts on the floor with Peters will dictate whether he's guarding 3s or 4s.

On offense, I think it's fairly clear that we are going to use him primarily as a stretch 4.

Sorry, not trying to derail your point, yet add to it, in that I think Peters skillset, when healthy, might be good enough to earn him a slot on the roster by NLT his 'sophomore season' with us.


He's not a 3, regardless of measurables. There is no way the guy cannot guard perimeter players. He can't even guard PFs. Bender is still better to play as a 3 (if we even need another one outside of TJ and JJ), though that's not ideal either.

the biggest question marks scouts have revolve around his ability to hold his own defensively. He may struggle to overcome his lack of elite physical tools defending in one on one situations, as he lacks a degree of lateral quickness staying in front of athletes on the perimeter, - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Alec-Peters-77931/ ©DraftExpress
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#942 » by MrMiyagi » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:29 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:I think that our guys are actually further along than most people realize. We were in a lot of games last season. Adding depth at 2 and 3 with Jackson and Reed should give us a good boost, not to mention Ulis being in the rotation all season. There's gonna be a lot of chatter about "The Suns are the youngest team in the NBA - HOW ARE THEY THIS GOOD?!" Not in the playoffs by any (except miraculous) means, but they're going to be a lot of people's favorite league-pass team.


And let's not forget Alec Peters; he should be 100% by Season start. I think despite his 'athleticism' and 'physical features', he can get some minutes at the 3 or 4...that is, meaning in this position-less NBA, that there might be some times when Peters is on the floor, and he's the closest thing to having a '3' out on the floor. I mean, let's really look at the physical features comparison between him and TJ:

Alec - 6' 8 3/4" ; 232 ; 6' 10 3/4" Wingspan ; 8' 9" Reach
T.J. - 6' 8 1/4" ; 220 ; 6' 10 1/4" Wingspan ; 8' 8" Reach

So, the 1/2" and 12 lb difference is not a clearly defined 'line in the sand' between SF/PF. My point is, if Peters ends up getting thrown around like a ragdoll when playing the 4, they may consider him more of a 3. But if he's not quick enough, as has been rumored, to guards 3s, well then Coach Watson needs to figure out how best to hide him when he's on the court, and that will be determined by who else he puts on the floor with Peters will dictate whether he's guarding 3s or 4s.

On offense, I think it's fairly clear that we are going to use him primarily as a stretch 4.

Sorry, not trying to derail your point, yet add to it, in that I think Peters skillset, when healthy, might be good enough to earn him a slot on the roster by NLT his 'sophomore season' with us.


He's not a 3, regardless of measurables. There is no way the guy cannot guard perimeter players. He can't even guard PFs.


I personally would've taken a flyer on Boucher. A big who can stretch the floor and block shots. He's the thinnest of rail-thin guys, his injury was worrisome, but now him and Jordan Bell are heading to Golden State.

I've made my peace with taking Reed over Bell, but I don't really see the point of grabbing Peters. This team needed defense, we could have had a trifecta of defender, but instead took a slow, pure-offensive player. I mean, 2nd rounders don't always pan out, but you should hope that they do. I don't see what the hope is with this guy, that he's a 3rd stretch big behind Bender and Chriss? At least with Boucher you could possibly pair him with Bender/Chriss for defensive purposes.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#943 » by NTB » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:47 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
And let's not forget Alec Peters; he should be 100% by Season start. I think despite his 'athleticism' and 'physical features', he can get some minutes at the 3 or 4...that is, meaning in this position-less NBA, that there might be some times when Peters is on the floor, and he's the closest thing to having a '3' out on the floor. I mean, let's really look at the physical features comparison between him and TJ:

Alec - 6' 8 3/4" ; 232 ; 6' 10 3/4" Wingspan ; 8' 9" Reach
T.J. - 6' 8 1/4" ; 220 ; 6' 10 1/4" Wingspan ; 8' 8" Reach

So, the 1/2" and 12 lb difference is not a clearly defined 'line in the sand' between SF/PF. My point is, if Peters ends up getting thrown around like a ragdoll when playing the 4, they may consider him more of a 3. But if he's not quick enough, as has been rumored, to guards 3s, well then Coach Watson needs to figure out how best to hide him when he's on the court, and that will be determined by who else he puts on the floor with Peters will dictate whether he's guarding 3s or 4s.

On offense, I think it's fairly clear that we are going to use him primarily as a stretch 4.

Sorry, not trying to derail your point, yet add to it, in that I think Peters skillset, when healthy, might be good enough to earn him a slot on the roster by NLT his 'sophomore season' with us.


He's not a 3, regardless of measurables. There is no way the guy cannot guard perimeter players. He can't even guard PFs.


I personally would've taken a flyer on Boucher. A big who can stretch the floor and block shots. He's the thinnest of rail-thin guys, his injury was worrisome, but now him and Jordan Bell are heading to Golden State.

I've made my peace with taking Reed over Bell, but I don't really see the point of grabbing Peters. This team needed defense, we could have had a trifecta of defender, but instead took a slow, pure-offensive player. I mean, 2nd rounders don't always pan out, but you should hope that they do. I don't see what the hope is with this guy, that he's a 3rd stretch big behind Bender and Chriss? At least with Boucher you could possibly pair him with Bender/Chriss for defensive purposes.


Besides defense, 3pt shooting is one of our vital needs too. I don't know if we will ever use him as a 3pt weapon but the need shouldn't be overlooked.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#944 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:01 pm

NTB wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
He's not a 3, regardless of measurables. There is no way the guy cannot guard perimeter players. He can't even guard PFs.


I personally would've taken a flyer on Boucher. A big who can stretch the floor and block shots. He's the thinnest of rail-thin guys, his injury was worrisome, but now him and Jordan Bell are heading to Golden State.

I've made my peace with taking Reed over Bell, but I don't really see the point of grabbing Peters. This team needed defense, we could have had a trifecta of defender, but instead took a slow, pure-offensive player. I mean, 2nd rounders don't always pan out, but you should hope that they do. I don't see what the hope is with this guy, that he's a 3rd stretch big behind Bender and Chriss? At least with Boucher you could possibly pair him with Bender/Chriss for defensive purposes.


Besides defense, 3pt shooting is one of our vital needs too. I don't know if we will ever use him as a 3pt weapon but the need shouldn't be overlooked.

Yeah, the guy averaged like 41% over his college career. Well over 40 for two of the years. He will get limited minutes but maybe in situations we are down by 3 or more at the end of games and need all shooters out there for a play.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#945 » by NTB » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:38 pm

carey wrote:It is 2-time, every time.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#946 » by MrMiyagi » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:42 pm

Boucher took over 100 3s in each of his two seasons at Oregon and got 34% while averaging 2.7 blocks. Sure, he's not a deadeye shooter, but I'll take a guy who can shoot, finish ( career average 65% from 2), and block shots. Sure he's like 40lbs under-weight, but even at under 200lbs, he's a 12-15th man who can come in for a few plays and really alter a possession or two on either side of the ball.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#947 » by SunZel » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:46 pm

Did booker and warren have press conferencrs? Cant remember.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#948 » by NTB » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:03 pm



Can anyone understand what he says at 1:16 mark. Does he say "There is not." ?
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#949 » by MrMiyagi » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:31 pm

NTB wrote:

Can anyone understand what he says at 1:16 mark. Does he say "There is not." ?

"There is none"
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#950 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:37 pm

I can't believe people don't think Jackson is starting this season. I love Warren, but Jackson is a much better player right now. I have no doubt of that.

Jackson does everything better than Warren except free throw shooting. He is a better three point shooter(yes). More efficient at twos. Better rebounder, passer, ball handler, team defender, one on one defender, steals, blocks-- everything.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#951 » by DirtyDez » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:57 pm

^^ means nothing until he shows it in the big leagues. Nothing... If Jackson starts it will be earned.

Again this will be the best thing for TJ. He will come out possessed.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#952 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:02 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:I can't believe people don't think Jackson is starting this season. I love Warren, but Jackson is a much better player right now. I have no doubt of that.

Jackson does everything better than Warren except free throw shooting. He is a better three point shooter(yes). More efficient at twos. Better rebounder, passer, ball handler, team defender, one on one defender, steals, blocks-- everything.


He very well may start, but saying he is a better rebounder, more efficient at twos and steals is definitely a stretch. And I am unsure of what he shot from NBA 3 pt distance, so that's no sure thing either.

But you're comparing stats a guy got against college competition to pro competition. If you look at Warren's stats in his last year in college before coming into the league, he was a far better 2 pt shooter (58% to 55% and as a freshman Warren was over 62% before he commanded more defensive attention when he was the main guy and ACC player of the year). Warren also averaged more steals and they were close in rebounds. Don't discount NBA experience vs a guy playing against college kids. Warren was among the league leaders in steals this past year before his injury.

I don't think there is any way Jackson is a better or more efficient scorer this year at all. I imagine he'll probably struggle quite a bit and will likely draw a lot of fouls if he is near the basket, given his subpar FT%.

College stats

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tj-warren-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/josh-jackson-2.html

Warren as a soph was also the same age Jackson was as a freshman.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#953 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:13 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:Boucher took over 100 3s in each of his two seasons at Oregon and got 34% while averaging 2.7 blocks. Sure, he's not a deadeye shooter, but I'll take a guy who can shoot, finish ( career average 65% from 2), and block shots. Sure he's like 40lbs under-weight, but even at under 200lbs, he's a 12-15th man who can come in for a few plays and really alter a possession or two on either side of the ball.


Didn't he also tear his ACL? He wasn't even projected to be taken in the mock, and wasn't ranked too high on the PAC 12 list. http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-Pac-12-Prospects/

But he gets to play for GS with his ex teammate Jordan Bell.

I do like him, but he wasn't projected or ranked as high as Peters in by DX or obviously the Suns.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#954 » by Mulhollanddrive » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:39 am

That Jackson pitch doesn't make me confident about his outside shot!
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#955 » by DaleyBlind » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:07 am

NTB wrote:


He looks jacked! looking way bigger than last year
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#956 » by JMac1 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:34 am

DaleyBlind wrote:
NTB wrote:


He looks jacked! looking way bigger than last year


I don't know if jacked is the word 'd use, however, heavier. I don't like the way his cheeks look. Too much facial fat for me.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#957 » by ATTL » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:36 am

DaleyBlind wrote:
NTB wrote:


He looks jacked! looking way bigger than last year


One of the reasons i dont want to see chriss involved in any trade talk. I think he's picking up Bledsoes workout habits. If that happens he's going to be a beast for the next 15 years.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#958 » by LukasBMW » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:17 am

Seriously??? A guy with 0 - ZERO - NBA minutes is going to start ahead of a guy who (at times) played like our best player last year?

Poor TJ. I feel like he is just the kind of guy everyone **** on. One of these days he'll get sick of it and find someone who won't **** on him.

Some of you are fast to forget his performance and potential. He DOMINATED games last year at times and YES, he did look like KD lite during some stretches.

Remember what happened the last time we kept disrespecting a quiet young player who never spoke out? He forced his way to Atlanta.

If JJ starts, that's fine, but he better earn it in training camp by beating TJ out.

Chriss and Bender better bulk up quick so we can play them at the 5 and make room for JJ and TJ.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#959 » by AtheJ415 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:08 am

Have we heard anything on any 2 way contracts? Was hoping we could add Motley there but I see Dallas got him. Same with Simmons. There were some interesting prospects not selected.
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Re: Draft Talk Aftermath 

Post#960 » by DaleyBlind » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:20 am

Warren is so overrated on this sub. He's a decent scorer and a passable defender.

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