Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2

Post #441 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:35 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Were going to have to address the C spot, one way or another. I see guys like Bogut, Ibaka, Gibson being appealing to McD. Don't know what we do, but we can't continue to send the lambs to slaughter

Hahahaha Bogut. A little old, and Dallas bought him out because he wanted to go to a contender. Len is a better rim protector than all those guys...you can see if you look at per 36. He's also a better rebounder than all but Bogut, but by advanced measures. Bogut is the best defensively but is way too old, breaks down too easily and is horrid offensively.

Even if you look at TS%, where many think Len struggle, who posts the second best, slightly behind Ibaka. By most net advanced measures, they are all close to equal. But only one has upside while everyone else is on the downside. If you care to compare...

http://bkref.com/tiny/klrkZ

We also have Tyson Chandler for 2 more years if we want that vet.

Saberestar · Post #442 » by **Saberestar** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:38 pm

Damkac wrote:Most of playing time should go to youth. If Suns are playoffs team or close to then great, they develop quick. If Suns are bad team then also great, another high pick.

And I don't understand why anybody is discussing Chris Paul. He is one of the great players without the ring and already 32. Why would he even consider signing on rebuilding team?

I would love to watch him on the Suns, but no way he signs with a rebuilding team.

MrMiyagi · Post #443 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:40 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Were going to have to address the C spot, one way or another. I see guys like Bogut, Ibaka, Gibson being appealing to McD. Don't know what we do, but we can't continue to send the lambs to slaughter

I don't think we need to spend money on Cs this off-season other than re-signing Big Sauce.

I know you probably don't want to hear it, but next year's draft should have some very good bigs like DeAndre Ayton, Mohamed Bamba, Robert Williams, Wendell Carter, Jaren Jackson and Mitchell Robinson. We have 2 firsts if Miami isn't top 7. We should be able to grab one of these guys. Hell, we might even get two.

I think this season will be fine with Tyson/Sauce and throwing Bender and Chriss against some Cs to see how they fare.

asudevil · Post #444 » by **asudevil** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:44 pm

I think the above comment by McD shows the direction this team is going. And while the expectations are not high, i think McD while retain his job if there is progress. We were 24-58 last season, and if we hadnt sat down Bled/Chandler then we would have probably added another 6 wins to that.

The goal should be 40 wins next season, and fighting for the playoffs. No need to make any moves beyond that even if we are in the mix at the AS break. Give the youth something to fight for. If they succeed, great. If then strikeout, then guys like Booker/Chriss/Warren/Bender/Jackson/Ulis will get a taste of playing for something meaningful. Either way, something to build on top of.

bigfoot · Post #445 » by **bigfoot** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:46 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Were going to have to address the C spot, one way or another. I see guys like Bogut, Ibaka, Gibson being appealing to McD. Don't know what we do, but we can't continue to send the lambs to slaughter

Let Chandler and Williams hold down the fort with Chriss and Bender as backups. Len can pound sand for some other team. I'm good with that ... http://bkref.com/tiny/qBvON

WeekapaugGroove · Post #446 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:47 pm

I can't believe theres that much debate about signing blake because frankly theres such a slim chance he would even consider signing here its really not worth the discussion.

If he wants to give them a meeting I'm sure they will take it but come on now I can think of 5 other destinations that make more sense for him.

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AtheJ415 · Post #447 » by **AtheJ415** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:09 pm

Len is sooooo underrated here. He is one of the best rim protecting bigs his age and under in the league. If he gets a huge offer I get moving on from him, but he is not somebody we should just move on from. His upside is still there and I think he can thrive in a more simplified role. For whatever reason, in the games when Tyson plays his numbers are awful. In the games when Tyson sat he broke out a bit.

Post #448 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:16 pm

asudevil wrote:I think the above comment by McD shows the direction this team is going. And while the expectations are not high, i think McD while retain his job if there is progress. We were 24-58 last season, and if we hadnt sat down Bled/Chandler then we would have probably added another 6 wins to that.

The goal should be 40 wins next season, and fighting for the playoffs. No need to make any moves beyond that even if we are in the mix at the AS break. Give the youth something to fight for. If they succeed, great. If then strikeout, then guys like Booker/Chriss/Warren/Bender/Jackson/Ulis will get a taste of playing for something meaningful. Either way, something to build on top of.

Bledsoe only sat the final 15 games. I don't think that he could have given us six more. I don't think there was a huge drop off from a Chandler to the others. All Chandler really did was rebound. He isn't a very good defender any more and he only averaged .7 blocks per 36. Williams was 1.6, so more than double and Len 2.3 so more than triple.

Post #449 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:18 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:Len is sooooo underrated here. He is one of the best rim protecting bigs his age and under in the league. If he gets a huge offer I get moving on from him, but he is not somebody we should just move on from. His upside is still there and I think he can thrive in a more simplified role. For whatever reason, in the games when Tyson plays his numbers are awful. In the games when Tyson sat he broke out a bit.

Yeah I just showed he is by far our best C rim protector, but I imagine that will be ignored as usual. He probably won't get a big offer either.

MrMiyagi · Post #450 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:34 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:Len is sooooo underrated here. He is one of the best rim protecting bigs his age and under in the league. If he gets a huge offer I get moving on from him, but he is not somebody we should just move on from. His upside is still there and I think he can thrive in a more simplified role. For whatever reason, in the games when Tyson plays his numbers are awful. In the games when Tyson sat he broke out a bit.

In a world where Joel Embiid, Rudy Gobert, Kristaps Porzingis, Anthony Davis, and Myles Turner - all of whom do much more - exist?

Sure, Len gets blocks and "protects the rim" with 49.4% opponent FG%. Some exec is going to look at that and say "Why is no one talking about Alex Len? This kid is GREAT!" And then they'll offer him a huge contract and be pretty happy with it. Until they start seeing him on the floor and watching him make stupid-ass fouls and show off his brick-like hands and clink most of what should be money baskets of the back-iron. Then they'll say "****, we've been Mozgov'd!"

jredsaz · Post #451 » by **jredsaz** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:39 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:I can't believe in the Warriors and super team era we have fans pining for this particular team to get Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, and Ricky Rubio. Guys, this team is so not ready for that. The net effects of adding them are all negative except for wins this season. It goes against every long-term goal. Now is not the team to short-circuit the rebuild and cut corners.

I don't think signing Griffin puts us in championship contention. However, your contention that winning - while not being a legit contender - is witbout merit is silly on a variety of levels.

It's good for development. It's good for the fan base. It's good for business.

If you can't sign a Griffin level player than don't make a Milsap signing just to get butts in the seats. But I find it hilarious that you and others are so against adding a 5 time all star or a perennial All NBA point guard while we have the cap flexibility to do so.

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asudevil · Post #452 » by **asudevil** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:41 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
asudevil wrote:I think the above comment by McD shows the direction this team is going. And while the expectations are not high, i think McD while retain his job if there is progress. We were 24-58 last season, and if we hadnt sat down Bled/Chandler then we would have probably added another 6 wins to that.

The goal should be 40 wins next season, and fighting for the playoffs. No need to make any moves beyond that even if we are in the mix at the AS break. Give the youth something to fight for. If they succeed, great. If then strikeout, then guys like Booker/Chriss/Warren/Bender/Jackson/Ulis will get a taste of playing for something meaningful. Either way, something to build on top of.

Bledsoe only sat the final 15 games. I don't think there he could have given us six more. I don't think there was a huge drop off from a Chandler to the others. All Chandler really did was rebound. He isn't a very good defender any more and he only averaged .7 blocks per 36. Williams was 1.6, so more than double and Len 2.3 so more than triple.

Not to say these game are definite wins but:

Kings - Tied going into the 4th: Lost by 6
Magic - Up 1 going into the 4th: Lost by 6
Pistons - Down 2 going into the 4th: Lost by 17
Hawks - Down 3 going into the 4th: Lost by 4
Clips - Down 1 going into the 4th: Lost by 6
Rockets - Down 7 going into the 4th: Lost by 7

Maybe i was being a little optimistic. But there were definitely a few games towards the end of the season that were certainly winnable.

jredsaz · Post #453 » by **jredsaz** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:41 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I seriously don't think the front office will go after Blake Griffin. Firstly, I think they love Chriss and Bender and Watson raves about Chriss and I think they want to give them as many minutes and have them on the floor as much as possible. I think McD even just said this.

Secondly, I think they like having Booker be the face of the franchise and main guy. He is marketable. And while Blake Griffin is very marketable, he immediately becomes, by default, the face of the franchise, particularly for the casual fans who will begin to take interest. While in the past I think Sarver would have wanted this, and I think he may still decide on that course, it feels like he is high on Booker being the guy.

He has also been extremely injury prone the last couple of seasons and with his dunking game he probably sooner than later goes the way of Amare. And while he is a great passer and midrange shooter, I just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to sign him if we want this team to grow and get better and maximize the guys' potential that we endured bad season of to draft.

As for Bledsoe, if Lowry bolts, I wonder if Toronto will show interest. Not sure what they could offer that we'd want other than maybe Joseph, Powell and a first.

I just don't understand the option of its Griffin or Chriss and Bender. They are perfect guys to play along side Blake.

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jcsunsfan · Post #454 » by **jcsunsfan** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:42 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:Len is sooooo underrated here. He is one of the best rim protecting bigs his age and under in the league. If he gets a huge offer I get moving on from him, but he is not somebody we should just move on from. His upside is still there and I think he can thrive in a more simplified role. For whatever reason, in the games when Tyson plays his numbers are awful. In the games when Tyson sat he broke out a bit.

I tend to agree with this. Lens problem is. It overall production so much as inconsistency. I don't mind keeping him around at all, as long as the price is not too high. As much as I would like to keep Chandler around for a veteran presence, wisdom might dictate keeping Len and Sauce instead.

thamadkant · Post #455 » by **thamadkant** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:46 pm

Len's issue is he takes stupid shots and takes away shots away from better offensive players...

If he can simply play like Capela or McGee... It would be fine.. But he doesnt... He isnt bouncy enough. So he tries to contribute offensively by trying to score and he just clanks mid range shots or messes up close shots....

King4Day · Post #456 » by **King4Day** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:10 pm

Was just thinking how great it'd be if the Celtics do land Hayward and that lets them acquire and extend George for 3 years. That'd mean Tatum most likely goes to Indy in that deal.
The best part is, the Lakers get nothing out of it. including any chance of LeBron signing there.

bigfoot · Post #457 » by **bigfoot** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:15 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:Len is sooooo underrated here. He is one of the best rim protecting bigs his age and under in the league. If he gets a huge offer I get moving on from him, but he is not somebody we should just move on from. His upside is still there and I think he can thrive in a more simplified role. For whatever reason, in the games when Tyson plays his numbers are awful. In the games when Tyson sat he broke out a bit.

Len doesn't do anything at a high level to earn starter dollars. Not a facilitator out of the high post. Not a great target on the pick-n-roll because his hands suck. Not an elite rebounder or rim protector. It does not make sense to give him money in a simplified role. Williams is shown that he is an elite rebounder and is a better defender than Len. He is a significantly better pick-n-roll target and has a great touch around the basket. I believe he is a much better passer too. If the choice is between Williams and Len it is a no brainer.

TeamTragic · Post #458 » by **TeamTragic** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:21 pm

Damkac wrote:
NTB wrote:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

The best news being we have our pick next season. Play the young guys from the start and just develop them. No need to destroy cap space on Millsap/etc.

Post #459 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:24 pm

jredsaz wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I seriously don't think the front office will go after Blake Griffin. Firstly, I think they love Chriss and Bender and Watson raves about Chriss and I think they want to give them as many minutes and have them on the floor as much as possible. I think McD even just said this.

Secondly, I think they like having Booker be the face of the franchise and main guy. He is marketable. And while Blake Griffin is very marketable, he immediately becomes, by default, the face of the franchise, particularly for the casual fans who will begin to take interest. While in the past I think Sarver would have wanted this, and I think he may still decide on that course, it feels like he is high on Booker being the guy.

He has also been extremely injury prone the last couple of seasons and with his dunking game he probably sooner than later goes the way of Amare. And while he is a great passer and midrange shooter, I just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to sign him if we want this team to grow and get better and maximize the guys' potential that we endured bad season of to draft.

As for Bledsoe, if Lowry bolts, I wonder if Toronto will show interest. Not sure what they could offer that we'd want other than maybe Joseph, Powell and a first.

I just don't understand the option of its Griffin or Chriss and Bender. They are perfect guys to play along side Blake.

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Not really. While our offense would be much better, our shot blocking and rebounding would suffer quite a bit. He is not particularly good defensively, about the same as Len, but as a shot blocker he is terrible at .4 per 36 and has a rebounder not so great at 8.6 per 36. We'd get killed on the glass and would have terrible front court defense.

He needs to play next to someone like DeAndre, or heck, even Len.

Post #460 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:26 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
Damkac wrote:
NTB wrote:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

The best news being we have our pick next season. Play the young guys from the start and just develop them. No need to destroy cap space on Millsap/etc.

Yeah, this was posted earlier and I said "Thank God" as well, so I probably shouldn't waste time arguing against signing Blake or Millsap or trading for Aldridge.