The Pursuit of Paul George

[Fencer reregistered]

Very interesting that the guy (Bulpett) who usually shoots down every rumor, and is usually right by the way, is suggesting George to the Celtics has some legs. Though he seems to imply if it does happen, it'd be with no extension and a gamble to change his mind, not in the fashion Kaufman has suggested. http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2017/06/bulpett_celtics_in_best_spot_to_land_paul_george

So what remains as the most expedient way to get the max cap space prior to a trade? It seems like the trade down in the draft was pretty much negated in terms of cap savings by the estimated drop in the cap.

How much of an effect would the cap drop have had when a max slot is based on a percentage of the cap?

If you're going to sign a guy to 30% of the cap, then the net effect is 70% of the raw drop.

[djFan71]

This may sound crazy but given access to all of the Celtics players that I expect to be on the team next year, the following would be a starting lineup on defense/offense I strongly consider if my goal was to actually win and not keep veteran players happy.

I just outline how I might try to guard the Cavs...how players space floor on offense different
Irving -- Bradley -- . Bradley could be upgraded but given the other 4 players provide enough scoring and IT's postseason problems on defense are hard to hide against elite offenses, he deserves to start over IT or if still on the team Smart/Rozier.
Smith -- Tatum -- yes put Tatum against Smith and if Boston ever got by Cavs, he may be able to guard Klay as well. Klay isn't a quick SG that tries to beat you off the dribble and isn't a player that tries to overpower you either..
Lebron -- George -- although not a great defender, Hayward can guard Lebron as well at times but I'd start George on Lebron.
Love -- Hayward -- pretty strong so matches up with Love or TT without being completely overpowered.
TT - Horford -- not best matchup for C's but what can you do without a trade until 2018 draft.

Are you assuming Marcus is gone, but Avery stays? Is Jaylen gone too? I would go with: Smart on Irving, Jaylen on Smith.

I know its unrealistic since another player(s) need to go but I wasn't assuming anyone gone but Crowder which is obviously an unrealistic assumption with both George/Hayward coming in.

Your lineup seems better defensively than what I am outlining especially if you figure switches onto Lebron...., I just am optimistic enough even on rookie Tatum's offense -- if left uncovered from 3 -- to consider the possibility that he will deserve to play as a superior floor spacer before Smart/Jaylen in certain matchups where the opposing 2 doesn't look to beat you off the dribble much at all. I'd rather have the Cavs try to ISO Smith against Tatum than a bunch of other things they can do. But admittedly, your lineup is better defensively in all likelihood since you have 4 guys that can switch onto Lebron and do a respectable job of providing at least some resistance. One thing Tatum can do already it seems is recover fairly fast to the perimeter after helping out elsewhere on D. I would want to try to use his length and decent speed in that manner vs a team like the Cavs.

Even hypothetically speaking if the salaries worked with just losing Crowder or the Celtics did decide to trade Crowder/IT, I don't think what I am suggesting will really happen since unless things are just brutally obvious, a lot of coaches give more senior players preference especially in contract years. Even if its fairly obvious that let's say rookie Tatum is the 4th best player on the team by the time of the playoffs and the C's have a team whereby it makes sense to start him, Steven's come up with some justification to use him as a 6th or 7th man.

My gut suspects Ainge for reasons I don't necessarily entirely agree with wants to keep Bradley over Smart. Ideally, C's would be in position to make the decision by trade deadline but I suspect one of them may have to be shipped out this summer if both George/Hayward are coming unless Ainge does the unexpected and trades IT to go along with Crowder. I think its close between Smart and Bradley right now and just have Bradley starting here since his shooting ability commands more respect than Smart's. And I kind of wanted Smart's better help defense to help cover for IT when IT comes off the bench. But for sure I would give Smart enough minutes playing with Hayward/George to see if he does better on more lightly contested 3's next year.

My preferred scenario is the Jae/Rozier/Zeller/lesser picks going out for George - take him without an extend so we don't have to give up tons of extra assets, so I'm with you, if possible.

What could be really interesting if Tatum is indeed capable of playing the 2, is the 4 wings and Horford. Jaylen/Gordon probably doing the ball handling. Jayson/George up front. Jaylen got a few reps at point this year in blowouts. And between the 4 of them, somebody could bring the ball up without being pressured. You don't really have anyone breaking down people off the dribble, but I don't think you do with AB in there in your lineup either. But, not sure you really need that with Brad's offense and the talent involved. At some point if you're maxing Hayward & George and you 2 best young assets are the Jaylen/Jayson you gotta figure out a way to get them on the floor together long term. It's a matter if you add IT or Smart a go "small" (if 4 guys 6'7" to 6'9" can be small) or big with Al.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I will say, for Indiana, if you can get Harris, Barton, Mudiay and a 2018 Denver pick....that's a pretty damn good haul for your disgruntled star on a one year deal. I wouldn't blame the Pacers if they took that deal.

But I will blame Lebron. So f**k him.

Except Barton is a borderline starter/bench player, mudiay blows donkey balls and the 2018 pick from denver would be in the early to late teens which is worthless.

We can give 2 proven starters for a playoff team, a pick just as valuable as the den pick, and the Lotto pick from LA/Sac/Phil

Barton is a scorer. They can use him, or get a first for him. Mudiay is young and has shown more signs of life in his three-point shot than Smart, or at least, as many signs. Gary Harris is a cheaper 3&D guard than Bradley.

And look at that, one rumor and it's not Crowder/filler/pick, it's 2 proven starters (Bradley and Crowder), a future 1st, and a lotto pick.

[rickrolled]

This report was actually from 2 days ago, it also involved PHX and the Knicks and would've sent both Melo and PG to the Cavs.
The reported 5 team deal that fell through cause noone wanted KLove.

http://fadeawayworld.com/2017/06/25/nba-trade-rumors-the-huge-5-team-mega-deal-that-almost-happened/


You guys ready for this? I dont think anyone wants this, even the warriors dont want any part of this.

[Fencer reregistered]

The funny thing here is that trading AB and Crowder for PG could actually save us money longterm luxury tax wise. AB is going to get something like 22M as his next contract. Crowder is 8M. That's already more than PG's max + a min contract. And we will have to trade a guy like Smart or Rozier as well...

This is true when comparing Bradley + Crowder to George + a vet minimum guy.

[London2Boston]

This report was actually from 2 days ago, it also involved PHX and the Knicks and would've sent both Melo and PG to the Cavs.
The reported 5 team deal that fell through cause noone wanted KLove.

http://fadeawayworld.com/2017/06/25/nba-trade-rumors-the-huge-5-team-mega-deal-that-almost-happened/


You guys ready for this? I dont think anyone wants this, even the warriors dont want any part of this.

Melo trying to run around guarding the likes of Klay,KD and Draymond

[Fencer reregistered]

Gordon Hayward is not enough. The Celtics need two stars. Not one,but two.

More than 2. But rookies aside, 2 is the best case for this offseason.

What's urgent is 1, since if the cap room isn't used this year it will be hard to recreate in the future.

[Tai]

Yeaaa if the Celtics really have the best offer for the Pacers like everyone's saying, the Pacers will wait 6 days.

Someone pointing out that Stein/Haynes mentioned the Celtics' plans (possibly get marquee free agent like Hayward then trade for George) in their article was a great catch.

Then to top it off, Joe Vardon's tweet that his source said "nothing serious" on the discussed 3-way between Cavs/Pacers/Nuggets.

This is clearly a marathon till July 1, but seems to me the Celtics are still winning it so far. Be strong, people.

[Captain_Caveman]

Smh. Only Boston homers would make that argument. PG on the Cavs gives the Warriors competition.. PG on the Celtics may not even beat the Current Cavs in a 7 game series.

Your adding Heyward and PG.

My point still stands.

Even if we brought the same team back from last year, we beat the Cavs. Might have done it this year if healthy.

I'm no Celts homer and have been a huge LeBron supporter since forever ago, but they are just another team now.

Limped into the playoffs going 23-23 down the stretch, then drew two teams missing their best player before getting spanked.

Wasn't impressed. Next year, both teams will be a year older, which is only good news for one of the teams.

Warriors OTOH...

[tlee324]

Hayward need to stop wasting our time and decide .. We're losing so much time .. We could be going after other free agents ..

Free agency doesn't start until July 1st...

WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR DETAILS!!! TIME'S A WASTIN'!!!

[celtxman]

A whole week for everybody else to get something brewed up with PG. The Spurs might even be involved. It shifts from Cleveland is blowing it up and for free agents to "stay away" to them being right back in business. I have to admit there was a part of me wanting to overpay for KP because at least you had something tangible in hand, that might cement Hayward coming here and we would be in business. From what Bobby Manning tweeted:

Bobby Manning‏ @RealBobManning 6m6 minutes ago
More
I'll admit it, the rumors around the Celtics that turn into no moves do get tiresome. This Hayward/George plan feels like more smoke.

[canman1971]

Well, I am off for the summer, July 1 is my birthday and my first day at camp with my brand new camper. So, it is only fitting that the Celtics do something to make that day even better.

[ThirtyFour]

Your adding Heyward and PG.

My point still stands.

Even if we brought the same team back from last year, we beat the Cavs. Might have done it this year if healthy.

I'm no Celts homer and have been a huge LeBron supporter since forever ago, but they are just another team now.

Limped into the playoffs going 23-23 down the stretch, then drew two teams missing their best player before getting spanked.

Wasn't impressed. Next year, both teams will be a year older, which is only good news for one of the teams.

Warriors OTOH...

It's not sexy, but if we somehow fail to get Hayward and or PG (which I'm prepping myself for after years of disappointment from not getting some rumored firework type deals done) and we just roll into the season with the addition of Zizic and Taytum, I would be curious how much those additions make a difference, Zizic for our rebounding problems and Taytum for some scoring off the bench.

[Edug27]

Your adding Heyward and PG.

My point still stands.

Even if we brought the same team back from last year, we beat the Cavs. Might have done it this year if healthy.

Couldnt read any further. Just nonsense.

Last years Cavs team are the champs any other season. Just ran into a special GS team. Boston stood no chance... zero. Neither did any other team not residing in Oakland.

[BRUNiNHO91]

My point still stands.

Even if we brought the same team back from last year, we beat the Cavs. Might have done it this year if healthy.

I'm no Celts homer and have been a huge LeBron supporter since forever ago, but they are just another team now.

Limped into the playoffs going 23-23 down the stretch, then drew two teams missing their best player before getting spanked.

Wasn't impressed. Next year, both teams will be a year older, which is only good news for one of the teams.

Warriors OTOH...

It's not sexy, but if we somehow fail to get Hayward and or PG (which I'm prepping myself for after years of disappointment from not getting some rumored firework type deals done) and we just roll into the season with the addition of Zizic and Taytum, I would be curious how much those additions make a difference, Zizic for our rebounding problems and Taytum for some scoring off the bench.

We probably have a long list of 2nd and 3rd tier free agents that we would massively overpay for a year just like we did with Amir. The kid Green from Memphis and Ibaka being 2 guys I could see us going for..maybe even ZBo. But to answer your scenario, I bet we win the same amount of games, finish 1st or 2nd in the conference, have a bit of an easier time in the 1st 2 rounds of the playoffs and maybe win 2 games off of Cleveland. I think Jaylen, Marcus and Rozier will all have significant improvements this year.

[Tai]

A whole week for everybody else to get something brewed up with PG. The Spurs might even be involved. It shifts from Cleveland is blowing it up and for free agents to "stay away" to them being right back in business. I have to admit there was a part of me wanting to overpay for KP because at least you had something tangible in hand, that might cement Hayward coming here and we would be in business. From what Bobby Manning tweeted:

Bobby Manning‏ @RealBobManning 6m6 minutes ago
More
I'll admit it, the rumors around the Celtics that turn into no moves do get tiresome. This Hayward/George plan feels like more smoke.

Is this an actual report or is he just speculating? As said before, Marc Stein mentioned that it's believed around the league the Celtics want to do this Hayward/George plan. Clearly there's something here; again, it's a marathon till July 1, but unless someone jumps in, the C's are clearly the favorite.

[ThirtyFour]

Even if we brought the same team back from last year, we beat the Cavs. Might have done it this year if healthy.

I'm no Celts homer and have been a huge LeBron supporter since forever ago, but they are just another team now.

Limped into the playoffs going 23-23 down the stretch, then drew two teams missing their best player before getting spanked.

Wasn't impressed. Next year, both teams will be a year older, which is only good news for one of the teams.

Warriors OTOH...

It's not sexy, but if we somehow fail to get Hayward and or PG (which I'm prepping myself for after years of disappointment from not getting some rumored firework type deals done) and we just roll into the season with the addition of Zizic and Taytum, I would be curious how much those additions make a difference, Zizic for our rebounding problems and Taytum for some scoring off the bench.

We probably have a long list of 2nd and 3rd tier free agents that we would massively overpay for a year just like we did with Amir. The kid Green from Memphis and Ibaka being 2 guys I could see us going for..maybe even ZBo. But to answer your scenario, I bet we win the same amount of games, finish 1st or 2nd in the conference, have a bit of an easier time in the 1st 2 rounds of the playoffs and maybe win 2 games off of Cleveland. I think Jaylen, Marcus and Rozier will all have significant improvements this year.

I wonder if we could grab Vince Carter for some solid scoring, but he probably only considers us if we add some stars.

[CelticsPride18]

A whole week for everybody else to get something brewed up with PG. The Spurs might even be involved. It shifts from Cleveland is blowing it up and for free agents to "stay away" to them being right back in business. I have to admit there was a part of me wanting to overpay for KP because at least you had something tangible in hand, that might cement Hayward coming here and we would be in business. From what Bobby Manning tweeted:

Bobby Manning‏ @RealBobManning 6m6 minutes ago
More
I'll admit it, the rumors around the Celtics that turn into no moves do get tiresome. This Hayward/George plan feels like more smoke.

Is this an actual report or is he just speculating? As said before, Marc Stein mentioned that it's believed around the league the Celtics want to do this Hayward/George plan. Clearly there's something here; again, it's a marathon till July 1, but unless someone jumps in, the C's are clearly the favorite.

We need to nail that Hayward meeting to make this happen. I trust in Danny Ainge ability to give a good presentation on the meeting. Once we have Hayward on board Ainge would be willing to offer some good assets for PG

[djFan71]

Even if we brought the same team back from last year, we beat the Cavs. Might have done it this year if healthy.

I'm no Celts homer and have been a huge LeBron supporter since forever ago, but they are just another team now.

Limped into the playoffs going 23-23 down the stretch, then drew two teams missing their best player before getting spanked.

Wasn't impressed. Next year, both teams will be a year older, which is only good news for one of the teams.

Warriors OTOH...

It's not sexy, but if we somehow fail to get Hayward and or PG (which I'm prepping myself for after years of disappointment from not getting some rumored firework type deals done) and we just roll into the season with the addition of Zizic and Taytum, I would be curious how much those additions make a difference, Zizic for our rebounding problems and Taytum for some scoring off the bench.

We probably have a long list of 2nd and 3rd tier free agents that we would massively overpay for a year just like we did with Amir. The kid Green from Memphis and Ibaka being 2 guys I could see us going for..maybe even ZBo. But to answer your scenario, I bet we win the same amount of games, finish 1st or 2nd in the conference, have a bit of an easier time in the 1st 2 rounds of the playoffs and maybe win 2 games off of Cleveland. I think Jaylen, Marcus and Rozier will all have significant improvements this year.

I'd be more optimistic. Like you mentioned in a previous post, the east may regress overall. You add a Dedmon\Ibaka\ZBo & Zizic to replace Amir's minutes. You get Tatum (and improved Jaylen) to replace Jerebko's. Marcus maybe shoots better.... There's really no dead weight in that lineup. I think you can be pushing 60 wins with that team.

ECF all depends on how much Lebron declines.

[Captain_Caveman]

My point still stands.

Even if we brought the same team back from last year, we beat the Cavs. Might have done it this year if healthy.

Couldnt read any further. Just nonsense.

Last years Cavs team are the champs any other season. Just ran into a special GS team. Boston stood no chance... zero. Neither did any other team not residing in Oakland.

Don't care.

Life would have been pretty tit with a playoff draw that involved a Wiz team without Wall and a Cavs team without LeBron. Switch health situations in the Conference Finals and you have two different Finals teams, both likely winning in 5 games. Period. End of story. Memorize it. Recite it.

We had one legit bad loss vs the Cavs this year, rest were either with IT hurt or while missing both Horford and Crowder.