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Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2

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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#501 » by bwoolf2 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:06 am

darealjuice wrote:I'm not a big fan of the idea of signing Griffin or Millsap; all that does is take away valuable playing time from our core players in Chriss, Bender, and TJ. We also have 2 draft picks next year, and prioritizing developing out young players this year will definitely lead to us getting a higher pick, leaving us with better assets to potentially add a star and complete the team with a piece that fits (make another run at Porzingis next year with our pick and Miami's?). I'd put more effort into getting out of Knight's bad contract by next offseason so we have all the cap space we need to make the next step.

I'm not against chasing a big free agent at all, but I'd prefer if they fill a role of need rather than something we have multiple players at. I'd say center is our biggest need, but outside of Nerlens Noel (whom I expect the Mavericks to re-sign) there's no one worth chasing after. Next season, on the other hand, we can definitely make a run at Bledsoe's buddy and UFA Boogie Cousins and look like a serious team for the 2018-2019 season. We don't necessarily have a hole there with Tyson and the ability to bring back Len and Williams, but I'd say it's the last big piece in taking our team to the next level.


Was never a huge fan of Boogie, but he looks to be taking things much more seriously he looks to be in great shape for maybe the 1st time in his career.

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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#502 » by Puff » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:24 am

BobbieL wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:I think second tier FAs are a more likely and affordable route. Don't be surprised when Serge Ibaka or Taj Gibson visit Phnx.
Could a 3 yr / 30 mill deal work ? These guys play defense, are solid pros and are given talents. Both Bender and Chris would benefit from their presence, without cutting too much into their playing time.... and it wouldn't hamstring us with cap room or a lengthy commitment. Len on the other hand, could cost more... much more.


There you go - Taj Gibson a two year deal makes a heckuva lot of sense. Forgot he was a free agent. I think Ibaka will get more years and dollars from the Raptors after losing Kyle Lowry - but I like Gibson. Could be the kind of solid free agent signed. I think that would also mean Len going. I just have no clue what team needs an Alex Len though

I looked at the teams in the NBA - I do not see one team that will offer anything of substance to Len. I think the Suns get him back - if they want, for like 8m, one year


You guys talk in circles. You worry about an all NBA player (Blake Griffin) taking Playing time from our youngsters but you like the idea of guys like Gibson & Ibaka. Sarver might as well put the money he would have to spend on either of those guys in a trash can in front of the arena and have a bonfire get together on a 120 degree day. A total waste.

For me it is clearly Blake as a free agent, no sign and trades to break up any of our recent high draft picks or see you at training camp, have a nice day.

There really is a lot of hot garbage available this year in free agency and you guys have named 2 of them you think we should go after.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#503 » by carey » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:50 am

BobbieL wrote:Okafor - not sure how he would fit on the roster. And my guess is, the Suns would have to take back Bayless A not so great contract.

In some ways, keeping Knight might be the best option as I just don't know a bad contract that would "work" - somebody wrote JVal from the Raptors . But that would for sure meaning trading Chandler and not keeping Len.

I'd do a Bayless + Okafor swap for Knight any day of the week. Twice on Tuesdays.

Bayless only has $9M for 2 more seasons. That's less than Dudley. Throw out his stats from last season. He only played 3 games and he tore a ligament in his wrist. The year before he shot a career best 44% from 3 on a career high in attempts (4.4 per game.) He'd be great in the 3rd or 4th guard role we actually need Knight in and makes a salary more commiserate with that role.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#504 » by MrMiyagi » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:56 am

Puff wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Griffin makes too much sense in Celtics, they need a PF and he's it.


I just do not like the Celtic roster at all. I do not know of anyone they have that I would like to have on our roster.

The only reason they won so many games this year, was because IT played out of his mind.

I think our squad offers much more potential going forward and gives Griffin a chance to be the leading man with a whole lot less pressure and much more fun. I do not see him as a ring chaser. I could be wrong but I think we have a real chance to land this guy.

I also think that the Clips are in real trouble going forward. I see a better chance of lottery picks than championships in their future.

I like a lot of their players. Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, IT (he had to go, I don't regret it, but he's a fun player to watch), Jaylen Brown and now Jayson Tatum. I don't care for Smart or Olynyk. I wouldn't actively trade for them because we aren't a good fit for them, but they've got good players.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#505 » by carey » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:58 am

Also, fwiw, I'd be ok with swapping JVal and Knight then trading Chandler. I don't know what's in it for Toronto though. How does his rebound rate compare to Len's? JVal pulls down 10 boards while scoring 13 points in only 26 minutes. Len averages 6.6 rebounds in 21 minutes.He doesn't offer much rim protection though.

I wonder what we could get back from Chandler? Anything of use or just trade him into someone's cap space for a 2nd rounder? He'd be really good as a vet leader & rebounder in Milwaukee but I think Monroe just picked up his option which was for $17.8M, yikes.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#506 » by carey » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:01 am

I don't want to sign a single player in FA unless we move a couple in a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1. If Scott Bordow's quotes about McDonough are to be believed I don't think we need to worry about signing anyone of significance.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#507 » by MrMiyagi » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:02 am

carey wrote:Also, fwiw, I'd be ok with swapping JVal and Knight then trading Chandler. I don't know what's in it for Toronto though. How does his rebound rate compare to Len's? JVal pulls down 10 boards while scoring 13 points in only 26 minutes. Len averages 6.6 rebounds in 21 minutes.He doesn't offer much rim protection though.

I wonder what we could get back from Chandler? Anything of use or just trade him into someone's cap space for a 2nd rounder? He'd be really good as a vet leader & rebounder in Milwaukee but I think Monroe just picked up his option which was for $17.8M, yikes.

Why would Toronto do that?
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#508 » by jredsaz » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:09 am

GoranTragic wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Not really. While our offense would be much better, our shot blocking and rebounding would suffer quite a bit. He is not particularly good defensively, about the same as Len, but as a shot blocker he is terrible at .4 per 36 and has a rebounder not so great at 8.6 per 36. We'd get killed on the glass and would have terrible front court defense.

He needs to play next to someone like DeAndre, or heck, even Len.


Couldn't disagree more. Chriss and Bender project as good rim protectors, versatile defenders, and above average 3 point shooters.

They compensate for Blake's lack of blocks, allow the Suns to hide Blake on the worst defenders in the opposing front court, provide weak side rim protection when Blake gets switched onto smaller/quicker wings, and most importantly spread the floor and allow Blake to play as a point forward/center.

Griffin allows Watson/McD to institute a more positionless system now and that will be a huge benefit in developing our youth.

Chriss, Bender and Griffin all need to rebound at a higher rate, totally agree on that point.

Jordan and Blake do not pair well in today's NBA. I think it's the primary reason the Clips have underachieved.

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I would love to see Griffin on this team. Do you think he is worth a massive contract?

100%. This year and next are the time frame the suns have to sign a high priced free agent. Every year they wait another young player comes up for a massive pay increase and the flexibility they have created gets more limited.

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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#509 » by carey » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:20 am

MrMiyagi wrote:Why would Toronto do that?


I don't know. Someone had just brought up trading for JVal.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#510 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:25 am

carey wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Why would Toronto do that?


I don't know. Someone had just brought up trading for JVal.


I don't think they take Knight and we don't want Val...I think our best bet with Toronto is if they lose Lowry trade Bledsoe for Joseph, Powell and a first rounder.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#511 » by Kerrsed » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:31 am

I find this interesting. Comparing 2 players, which C would you choose, A or B?

PER 36:

Player A: 14points (49%FG), 11rebounds, 1assist, 2blocks, .9steal
(Offensive Rating: 108, Defensive Rating: 108, OWS:1.2, DWS:1.7, WS:3.0)

Player B: 19points (53%FG), 10.5rebounds, 3.7assists, .9blocks, 1.8steals
(Offensive Rating: 111, Defensive Rating: 105, OWS:3.0, DWS:2.6, WS:5.6)
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#512 » by bwoolf2 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:40 am

Kerrsed wrote:I find this interesting. Comparing 2 players, which C would you choose, A or B?

PER 36:

Player A: 14points (49%FG), 11rebounds, 1assist, 2blocks, .9steal
(Offensive Rating: 108, Defensive Rating: 108, OWS:1.2, DWS:1.7, WS:3.0)

Player B: 19points (53%FG), 10.5rebounds, 3.7assists, .9blocks, 1.8steals
(Offensive Rating: 111, Defensive Rating: 105, OWS:3.0, DWS:2.6, WS:5.6)


obviously B, but per 36 is a bogus stat someone can come in and do some things really well for 10 minutes a game but you give that guy major playing time and rarely do his numbers translate the same way, very often the 12 minutes he was giving you good number is the same 12 minutes he is going to give you in 36 minutes.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#513 » by Kerrsed » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:44 am

bwoolf2 wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:I find this interesting. Comparing 2 players, which C would you choose, A or B?

PER 36:

Player A: 14points (49%FG), 11rebounds, 1assist, 2blocks, .9steal
(Offensive Rating: 108, Defensive Rating: 108, OWS:1.2, DWS:1.7, WS:3.0)

Player B: 19points (53%FG), 10.5rebounds, 3.7assists, .9blocks, 1.8steals
(Offensive Rating: 111, Defensive Rating: 105, OWS:3.0, DWS:2.6, WS:5.6)


obviously B, but per 36 is a bogus stat someone can come in and do some things really well for 10 minutes a game but you give that guy major playing time and rarely do his numbers translate the same way, very often the 12 minutes he was giving you good number is the same 12 minutes he is going to give you in 36 minutes.


Player A averaged 20 MPG while Player B averaged 22 MPG.

Player A also averaged (PER 36) 5.6 fouls compared to Player B's 3.3 (PER 36).
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#514 » by JJ13 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:53 am

I'd still love to see us make a move for Porzingis. There HAS to be bad blood with him and Phil now. I would not trade Jackson, Booker, or Chriss. Anything else and I'm game...Bledsoe, Bender, Warren, and both Miami picks AND take Noah's contract off NY's hands. Warren is a RFA next year and will get paid, trade him now before Jackson diminishes his trade value. If we don't have to take Noah's contract I'd include our 2018 1st rounder (and the later Miami pick).

We'd compete for 6-8 seed right away. I also think it would be a huge draw for a stud PG like Westbrook or Wall in 2019. Let Ulis run point in the meantime. I don't see any other centers making moves in the next couple years...maybe Boogie in FA. Who else is there? Not Len that's for sure. I'd try to get a hometown discount on Sauce to play backup C or start at C if using KP as PF.

Sauce averaged 7.4 PTs & 6 reb in 15 min / game. 19.5 PER. Really like his game and amazing teammate.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#515 » by Mr Puddles » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:05 am

JJ13 wrote:I'd still love to see us make a move for Porzingis. There HAS to be bad blood with him and Phil now. I would not trade Jackson, Booker, or Chriss. Anything else and I'm game...Bledsoe, Bender, Warren, and both Miami picks AND take Noah's contract off NY's hands. Warren is a RFA next year and will get paid, trade him now before Jackson diminishes his trade value. If we don't have to take Noah's contract I'd include our 2018 1st rounder (and the later Miami pick).

We'd compete for 6-8 seed right away. I also think it would be a huge draw for a stud PG like Westbrook or Wall in 2019. Let Ulis run point in the meantime. I don't see any other centers making moves in the next couple years...maybe Boogie in FA. Who else is there? Not Len that's for sure. I'd try to get a hometown discount on Sauce to play backup C or start at C if using KP as PF.

Sauce averaged 7.4 PTs & 6 reb in 15 min / game. 19.5 PER. Really like his game and amazing teammate.


I think Knick fans would collectively storm the Phill Jackon's house with pitchforks, but I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Getting Porzingis while retaining our 3 main assets? count me in

Ulis / Knight
Booker / Reed / Barbossa
JJ /DJJ / Puddles
Chriss / Dudley /Peters
Porzingis / Chandler / Williams / Noah(?)

That line-up would have the most young talent in the league, bar none.

According to reports, the Knicks were asking for the moon though, and they hold Zingis' restricted right, so I don't see the Knicks moving him.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#516 » by JJ13 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:10 am

Probably right, but if I'm McD I'm going for it now and not later. I'd imagine season ticket sales would help pay off some of that Noah contract :)
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#517 » by Kerrsed » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:33 am

By the way, with my Player comparison, Player A is our own Alex Len, and Player B is Greg Monroe, lol.

As for KP, no doubt we all would, but if it didnt get done before the trade (With #4 included), i dont see how it would get done now.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#518 » by DirtyDez » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:34 am

Knicks never coming off their asking price of Booker/JJ. No reason for them too either.

No FA's this year. Overachieve and look attractive to Cousins/Westbrook.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#519 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:40 am

For all the failed "marquee" signings McD had went for, all will be forgiven if he can land us KP.
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Re: Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2 

Post#520 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:41 am

Kerrsed wrote:By the way, with my Player comparison, Player A is our own Alex Len, and Player B is Greg Monroe, lol.

As for KP, no doubt we all would, but if it didnt get done before the trade (With #4 included), i dont see how it would get done now.

Wasn't the Knicks target JJ? We still have all the piece discussed pre-trade. Don't see why it should be ruled out now?

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