Wizards Summer League/Training Camp thread

[JWizmentality]

I would like to see us bring back Daniel House to be honest. Travesty he was let go while we kept Ochefu.

[Ruzious]

Pretty pathetic that some of us are talking about Kris Jenkins as our best hope for a rookie to make the team. If there were 4 rounds in the NBA draft, I doubt he would have been picked. That's an indication of how talented I think he is.

Come on ruz! #1 I think we all think that Devin and Michael have a better shot and if Eddie can play in the NBA so can jinkins. Give him a chance !

No, there were posts here indicating Jenikins (jinkins?) has the best shot. Eddie can't play in the NBA, and why the bleep should I want Jenkins to be given a chance? He's strictly a shooter, and he shot 38.4% last season. What's to look at? And even these other guys... we're talking about a bunch of people that nobody... else... wanted. Is Ernie Grunfeld smarter than everyone else?

[gambitx777]

Man! undrafted guys have made names in the nba before, honestly it all depends on the depth of the draft. some times there are more than 60 guys who are good enough some times people but and drafted guys out preform and get better. IT was pick 60! literally almost went drafted. I say give the kid a chance because by all accounts he is a good kid. Lets see if he can put enough work into get better. The kid deserves a chance . imo

[Kanyewest]

The Kris Jenkins signing is already worth it based on these tweets.

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[Wizardspride]

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[BearlyBallin]

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This lists interior defense as a strength while other sites have listed his 7' wingspan & 8'11" standing reach, both below average for a C as a concern. I'm hoping his time in youth rugby (switched to basketball @12) has given him the grit he'll need in the NBA.

I was also happy to see him make a couple of shots left handed. I had seen he plays piano (3 other instruments too) and hoped he would be able to develop a left handed hook. Other sites had listed his limitations on offense and made it seem he could only score in the post with a right hand hook.

Calipari said of Humphries, "He'll play pro ball somewhere, there's alway a need for someone who can shoot and rebound."
Maybe he can be Gortat 2.0, pick and roll, offensive boards & a little jump shot. Maybe in a few years that 3 pt stroke improves and he loses enough body fat to gain some more lateral agility. Maybe he'll jump higher then a phone book lol.

It's fun to project.

[payitforward]

Man! undrafted guys have made names in the nba before, honestly it all depends on the depth of the draft. some times there are more than 60 guys who are good enough some times people but and drafted guys out preform and get better. IT was pick 60! literally almost went drafted. I say give the kid a chance because by all accounts he is a good kid. Lets see if he can put enough work into get better. The kid deserves a chance . imo

Poor Kris Jenkins -- we are working ourselves into a frenzy over him. All he wants is a job playing basketball. A way to make a living playing a kids game. Can you blame him??

Yes, undrafted guys make it in the league all the time. GMs couldn't possibly be smart enough or have good enough tools to sort prospects accurately to any high degree of success -- certainly not once you're past the first few guys.

But that's not an argument in favor of Kris Jenkins. You might as well argue that b/c the 2d pick in the draft is often not as good as the 3d pick therefore if you've got the 2d pick you should trade down!

In the case of Jenkins, as well, I don't think it's about "talent" -- he just doesn't have the physical tools. Of course, every once in a while a guy who seems not to have the physical tools makes it anyway.

Still... Devin Robinson is marginal. Michael White is marginal. Kris Jenkins doesn't make it to marginal!

Then there's Marcus Keene. Gotta be a separate post, however!

[payitforward]

If you want to enjoy yourself (briefly), compare the per-40 minute numbers of Marcus Keene this year & Isaiah Thomas his last college year (junior year in both cases). They look a lot alike. Well... reasonably so.

They shot @ the same TS%. Rebounded about the same. IT got 2 more assists, but you'd expect that inasmuch as Keene took 20 more shots & got to the line 4+ more times. Gotta give the ball up to get an assist!

Biggest difference is that Keene turned the ball over 5 times to IT's 3.7 times -- again that reflects much higher usage -- & that IT had almost twice the steals. Does Keene play defense? Previous year, as a sophomore somewhere else, his steals were better.

Now... IT came into the league & played 25 minutes a game as a rookie, despite being picked #60. & he played well -- better numbers than in college, which is unusual for a rookie to say the least.

Look forward to seeing Marcus Keene play. I'd love to be able to keep him!

[payitforward]

PG -- Wall > Sato > Frazier > Keene
SG -- Beal > Mac > Sato
SF -- Porter > Oubre > Robinson
PF -- Morris > Porter > Young
C -- Mahinmi > Gortat > Smith > Humphries

That's 15 guys. Two of the four rookies would be signed as "2-way players" (lets say Keene & Humphries).

We'd be at @$ 98m. Sign a MLE player & a veteran minimum player to get to 17. Still under the tax.

[BearlyBallin]

Still... Devin Robinson is marginal. Michael White is marginal. Kris Jenkins doesn't make it to marginal!

Then there's Marcus Keene. Gotta be a separate post, however!

Lol I've been looking at our summer league signings and was thinking the same thing. Robinson with all that explosive athleticism doesn't wow me, but Keene is just really fun to watch play!

[Ruzious]

Man! undrafted guys have made names in the nba before, honestly it all depends on the depth of the draft. some times there are more than 60 guys who are good enough some times people but and drafted guys out preform and get better. IT was pick 60! literally almost went drafted. I say give the kid a chance because by all accounts he is a good kid. Lets see if he can put enough work into get better. The kid deserves a chance . imo

I guess what really "gets my goat" or "grinds my gears" is that while Grunfeld talks boldly about trying to get the 61st best player available (seriously, that's what he said), Golden State goes out there (for the 2nd straight year as PIF correctly noted) and pays US dollars for a high second round pick - in the upper 30's rather than hoping for a low 60's pick. And GS got a player who can reasonably be expected to be a useful player on the most talented roster in the NBA. GS understands they're paying some money up front to get a good player who's going to save them money over 4 seasons. Meanwhile, Washington is scrambling for players that were deemed not draft-worthy. And again, this isn't a 1 time thing; it's a pattern, and it's indicative of why GS is so much better run than Washington.

You're right - there's no harm in trying to see if they can find # 61, but actually getting #38 is a helluvalot better and should be what they focus more on accomplishing.

[80sballboy]

House is back! Jalen Ross is a 5-11 point guard who played at Hartford and is the son of former American great and Wiz executive Frank Ross.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jalen-Ross-65861/stats/

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[gambitx777]

PG -- Wall > Sato > Frazier > Keene
SG -- Beal > Mac > Sato
SF -- Porter > Oubre > Robinson
PF -- Morris > Porter > Young
C -- Mahinmi > Gortat > Smith > Humphries

That's 15 guys. Two of the four rookies would be signed as "2-way players" (lets say Keene & Humphries).

We'd be at @$ 98m. Sign a MLE player & a veteran minimum player to get to 17. Still under the tax.

You forgot Chris I doubt we are cutting him he might play pretty damn well at of in summer league.

[JWizmentality]

House is back! Jalen Ross is a 5-11 point guard who played at Hartford and is the son of former American great and Wiz executive Frank Ross.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jalen-Ross-65861/stats/

Read on Twitter

Awesome!! Can we cut the right Daniel this time.

[payitforward]

Man! undrafted guys have made names in the nba before, honestly it all depends on the depth of the draft. some times there are more than 60 guys who are good enough some times people but and drafted guys out preform and get better. IT was pick 60! literally almost went drafted. I say give the kid a chance because by all accounts he is a good kid. Lets see if he can put enough work into get better. The kid deserves a chance . imo

I guess what really "gets my goat" or "grinds my gears" is that while Grunfeld talks boldly about trying to get the 61st best player available (seriously, that's what he said), Golden State goes out there (for the 2nd straight year as PIF correctly noted) and pays US dollars for a high second round pick - in the upper 30's rather than hoping for a low 60's pick. And GS got a player who can reasonably be expected to be a useful player on the most talented roster in the NBA. GS understands they're paying some money up front to get a good player who's going to save them money over 4 seasons. Meanwhile, Washington is scrambling for players that were deemed not draft-worthy. And again, this isn't a 1 time thing; it's a pattern, and it's indicative of why GS is so much better run than Washington.

You're right - there's no harm in trying to see if they can find # 61, but actually getting #38 is a helluvalot better and should be what they focus more on accomplishing.

Yes, GS is "paying some money up front" -- but the real point is that, in fact, a guy like McCaw or Bell doesn't cost them money -- he saves them money:

1. The cap last year was $94.1m. Tax level was $113.1m.
2. Going into last year's draft, GS had 10 guys at $94m.
3. They picked Damian Jones at the end of R1; he cost them $1.2m
4. They needed 4 more guys @ under $2.9m each to stay under the tax.
5. Money you spend to buy a pick doesn't get counted against the cap/tax. (You could argue that it should be)
6. They paid McCaw $543k last year. This year he'll cost them $1.3m. Next year, it'll be $1.7m -- that's 3 years for under $4m. Plus whatever they paid for the pick -- lets assume it was worth @$2m.

McCaw played 1073 minutes & played pretty well. That's just over 5% of all their player minutes. And cost them less than 1/2 of 1 percent of their cap. Plus, McCaw is a trade asset now. He's worth much more than his salary. That right there more than repays the cost of buying the pick!

Not being dumb like GS, what did we do instead? We traded a R2 pick ("lets assume it was worth $2m") to acquire Trey Burke & pay him $3.4m, then we let him go.

So, we paid $5.4m & got one year of horrible play by Trey Burke & no value going forward.

Vs. GS who paid maybe $6m & got three years of play (first one was pretty good -- a whole lot better than TB! -- & he's a young guy who's likely to be a lot better over the next 2 years) & a valuable trade asset going forward.

Rinse & repeat this year:

GS bought a R2 pick & got Jordan Bell, who will cost them less than $1m this year & maybe $4m for 3 years, & who I'd be willing to bet is going to have a 10-12+ year productive career in the league, helping them on the floor, and then help them by being easily traded -- if they don't want to keep him.

Ernie, not being dumb like them, traded away a R2 pick for a guy who'll cost us $2m this year & very likely be out of the league next year.

Any questions?

[payitforward]

House is back! Jalen Ross is a 5-11 point guard who played at Hartford and is the son of former American great and Wiz executive Frank Ross.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jalen-Ross-65861/stats/

Read on Twitter

Awesome!! Can we cut the right Daniel this time.

Danuel House is not an NBA player; he's not even close to an NBA player. He wasn't good in college, he wasn't good w/ our SL team, & you'll notice that when we cut him he didn't get picked up by another team.

I'd much rather have Ochefu. At least he did play well in college. I'm not saying I want to keep him this year, but there's sure no reason to imagine Danuel House ever being on our team -- or any NBA team.

[JWizmentality]

House is back! Jalen Ross is a 5-11 point guard who played at Hartford and is the son of former American great and Wiz executive Frank Ross.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jalen-Ross-65861/stats/

Read on Twitter

Awesome!! Can we cut the right Daniel this time.

Danuel House is not an NBA player; he's not even close to an NBA player. He wasn't good in college, he wasn't good w/ our SL team, & you'll notice that when we cut him he didn't get picked up by another team.

I'd much rather have Ochefu. At least he did play well in college. I'm not saying I want to keep him this year, but there's sure no reason to imagine Danuel House ever being on our team -- or any NBA team.

Said no one.

[Kanyewest]

Awesome!! Can we cut the right Daniel this time.

Danuel House is not an NBA player; he's not even close to an NBA player. He wasn't good in college, he wasn't good w/ our SL team, & you'll notice that when we cut him he didn't get picked up by another team.

I'd much rather have Ochefu. At least he did play well in college. I'm not saying I want to keep him this year, but there's sure no reason to imagine Danuel House ever being on our team -- or any NBA team.

Said no one.

Ernie Grunfeld.

[payitforward]

Awesome!! Can we cut the right Daniel this time.

Danuel House is not an NBA player; he's not even close to an NBA player. He wasn't good in college, he wasn't good w/ our SL team, & you'll notice that when we cut him he didn't get picked up by another team.

I'd much rather have Ochefu. At least he did play well in college. I'm not saying I want to keep him this year, but there's sure no reason to imagine Danuel House ever being on our team -- or any NBA team.

Said no one.

Neither of these guys is going to have an NBA career; neither of them is likely to be on our team when the season starts. So there's not much reason to argue about them. Personally, I'd rather argue about Marcus Keene.

That said, it was you, not I, who made a point (twice I believe) of comparing Ochefu & House. So let me ask you a couple of questions:

1. Which of them played for a major college program?
2. Which of them played well for that major college program?

Finally, & you may not be aware of this, Daniel Ochefu has more than 75 times the NBA experience of Danuel House. That should seal the deal, I'd say.

(In fairness, & to be serious for a moment, in his 185 D-League minutes last year, Danuel House played fairly well not terribly -- he only had a .53 TS%, but he rebounded well, didn't foul much, stole it as much as he turned it over, & had a few assists. Not awful -- though I don't think anyone had him as a D League standout.)

But, as I say... how about that Marcus Keene? What do you think?

[payitforward]

Danuel House is not an NBA player; he's not even close to an NBA player. He wasn't good in college, he wasn't good w/ our SL team, & you'll notice that when we cut him he didn't get picked up by another team.

I'd much rather have Ochefu. At least he did play well in college. I'm not saying I want to keep him this year, but there's sure no reason to imagine Danuel House ever being on our team -- or any NBA team.

Said no one.

Ernie Grunfeld.

Yeah, but this is a point in jwizmentality's favor! So you can't really use it to critique him.