Draft Talk Aftermath - Who will win Rookie of the Year?

[Fo-Real]

I think JJ will take over pretty quickly on this team. If Watson loved Chriss that much, imagine his boosted version that can play anywhere. It sucks for TJ but he'll be a fantastic super sub for us (markieff role in 2014)

If his seemingly frail ego allows it. He may fade the way of Knight and need to be traded. It's hard to convince a player who has achieved what he has to come off the bench, there are money implications for a starter as opposed to bench guy.

[rsavaj]

Per Gambo as it stands right now ....Jackson is starting at 3 with warren coming in as our sixth man!! Take it for what it's worth but he hasn't been wrong for quite some time

If anyone thinks JJ needs to or has to "earn" his minutes, they are living in fantasy land. JJ will learn trial by fire. No time to be wasting with this earning crap. Either he has it or he doesn't, the sooner we find out the better. We know what trajectory TJ is on already. It is a good one, but not in the stratosphere of what we hope JJ becomes.

I mean what you're saying sounds good in theory, but I think it'd be bad coaching to just start the rook over TJ without holding a training camp battle first. Why should JJ start if he can't prove that he's > than TJ?

[LukasBMW]

Per Gambo as it stands right now ....Jackson is starting at 3 with warren coming in as our sixth man!! Take it for what it's worth but he hasn't been wrong for quite some time

If anyone thinks JJ needs to or has to "earn" his minutes, they are living in fantasy land. JJ will learn trial by fire. No time to be wasting with this earning crap. Either he has it or he doesn't, the sooner we find out the better. We know what trajectory TJ is on already. It is a good one, but not in the stratosphere of what we hope JJ becomes.

I mean what you're saying sounds good in theory, but I think it'd be bad coaching to just start the rook over TJ without holding a training camp battle first. Why should JJ start if he can't prove that he's > than TJ?

Exactly. Everyone should earn their role.

[JMac1]

Per Gambo as it stands right now ....Jackson is starting at 3 with warren coming in as our sixth man!! Take it for what it's worth but he hasn't been wrong for quite some time

If anyone thinks JJ needs to or has to "earn" his minutes, they are living in fantasy land. JJ will learn trial by fire. No time to be wasting with this earning crap. Either he has it or he doesn't, the sooner we find out the better. We know what trajectory TJ is on already. It is a good one, but not in the stratosphere of what we hope JJ becomes.

I mean what you're saying sounds good in theory, but I think it'd be bad coaching to just start the rook over TJ without holding a training camp battle first. Why should JJ start if he can't prove that he's > than TJ?

Don't know if you heard of the term "Penciled in starter from day one." That is when you draft a player very high and the player playing that same position isn't valued as much. TJ had his turn to take over the SF position for 3 years now and he hasn't; for this team thus far, yea, but as a dominant force, no, so; JJ is getting that opportunity from day one.

Players know some guys are getting their position, period. If you are an ok player, and your team drafts a stud at your position, and you say "that's ok, I was here first and he is going to have to earn it," you are dreaming, they will have to lose it. TJ and every other athlete on the planet knows that and understands that.

JJ will be running with the ones from day one. He needs to get a feel for the players that he will be spending most of his time on ther court. Starting JJ with the second team is a perfect way to slow his growth and mind **** him. I can't explain it any further. You either understand that or you don't.

[JMac1]

If anyone thinks JJ needs to or has to "earn" his minutes, they are living in fantasy land. JJ will learn trial by fire. No time to be wasting with this earning crap. Either he has it or he doesn't, the sooner we find out the better. We know what trajectory TJ is on already. It is a good one, but not in the stratosphere of what we hope JJ becomes.

I mean what you're saying sounds good in theory, but I think it'd be bad coaching to just start the rook over TJ without holding a training camp battle first. Why should JJ start if he can't prove that he's > than TJ?

Exactly. Everyone should earn their role.

He earned by being the 4th player in the draft and possibly the best player in the draft. He does have a body of work you know. Now we won't know how that translates in the NBA, but we are gonna find out game 1. If he sucks, he can lose it. That's how it works in professional sports. Most rookies don't start because they aren't ready. If JJ sucks in camp, he probably won't start, but he will have to suck really bad.

[jcsunsfan]

Again. This team desperately needs D on the wing. Jackson will be our best defender the moment he steps on he court. If PJ started on this team, I guarantee you JJ will be starting and probably immediately. The only chance TJ remains the starter is if he somehow magically steps up his defense.

[bwgood77]

If anyone thinks JJ needs to or has to "earn" his minutes, they are living in fantasy land. JJ will learn trial by fire. No time to be wasting with this earning crap. Either he has it or he doesn't, the sooner we find out the better. We know what trajectory TJ is on already. It is a good one, but not in the stratosphere of what we hope JJ becomes.

I mean what you're saying sounds good in theory, but I think it'd be bad coaching to just start the rook over TJ without holding a training camp battle first. Why should JJ start if he can't prove that he's > than TJ?

Don't know if you heard of the term "Penciled in starter from day one." That is when you draft a player very high and the player playing that same position isn't valued as much. TJ had his turn to take over the SF position for 3 years now and he hasn't; for this team thus far, yea, but as a dominant force, no, so; JJ is getting that opportunity from day one.

Players know some guys are getting their position, period. If you are an ok player, and your team drafts a stud at your position, and you say "that's ok, I was here first and he is going to have to earn it," you are dreaming, they will have to lose it. TJ and every other athlete on the planet knows that and understands that.

JJ will be running with the ones from day one. He needs to get a feel for the players that he will be spending most of his time on ther court. Starting JJ with the second team is a perfect way to slow his growth and mind **** him. I can't explain it any further. You either understand that or you don't.

I guess you missed this past year when TJ did take over the SF position.

[bwgood77]

Again. This team desperately needs D on the wing. Jackson will be our best defender the moment he steps on he court. If PJ started on this team, I guarantee you JJ will be starting and probably immediately. The only chance TJ remains the starter is if he somehow magically steps up his defense.

I think JJ may start initially and should start eventually. But he should show what he's got on the court against NBA competition before he gets the starting nod, even if it's just a handful of games.

PJ didn't start last year until TJ was out.

[JMac1]

I mean what you're saying sounds good in theory, but I think it'd be bad coaching to just start the rook over TJ without holding a training camp battle first. Why should JJ start if he can't prove that he's > than TJ?

Don't know if you heard of the term "Penciled in starter from day one." That is when you draft a player very high and the player playing that same position isn't valued as much. TJ had his turn to take over the SF position for 3 years now and he hasn't; for this team thus far, yea, but as a dominant force, no, so; JJ is getting that opportunity from day one.

Players know some guys are getting their position, period. If you are an ok player, and your team drafts a stud at your position, and you say "that's ok, I was here first and he is going to have to earn it," you are dreaming, they will have to lose it. TJ and every other athlete on the planet knows that and understands that.

JJ will be running with the ones from day one. He needs to get a feel for the players that he will be spending most of his time on ther court. Starting JJ with the second team is a perfect way to slow his growth and mind **** him. I can't explain it any further. You either understand that or you don't.

I guess you missed this past year when TJ did take over the SF position.

I didn't miss, neither did this organization. <Thank God button>.

[Damkac]

I think JJ should fight for the starter spot but I also could imagine McD promising him that for skipping Celtics.
Whatever will happen I hope TJ won't feel disrespected and will continue his hard work for the team.

[bwgood77]

Don't know if you heard of the term "Penciled in starter from day one." That is when you draft a player very high and the player playing that same position isn't valued as much. TJ had his turn to take over the SF position for 3 years now and he hasn't; for this team thus far, yea, but as a dominant force, no, so; JJ is getting that opportunity from day one.

Players know some guys are getting their position, period. If you are an ok player, and your team drafts a stud at your position, and you say "that's ok, I was here first and he is going to have to earn it," you are dreaming, they will have to lose it. TJ and every other athlete on the planet knows that and understands that.

JJ will be running with the ones from day one. He needs to get a feel for the players that he will be spending most of his time on ther court. Starting JJ with the second team is a perfect way to slow his growth and mind **** him. I can't explain it any further. You either understand that or you don't.

I guess you missed this past year when TJ did take over the SF position.

I didn't miss, neither did this organization. <Thank God button>.

We clearly needed wing defense with Booker's horrid defense, but Warren isn't chopped liver. He was our most efficient offensive player this season and by advanced metrics, had more than double the win shares of Booker and almost triple the WS/48. Also his VORP was .9 while Booker's was -.2. His DBPM was a slight negative at -.5, but Booker was WAY negative at -2.3.

So yes, because of Booker's horrid defense, JJ is needed, but TJ is certainly a valuable player who clearly will only get better since he's only started less than a year. Ultimately it doesn't matter much who starts because I imagine they will both get plenty of minutes, but if you really were paying attention this year, you'd understand how well Warren played. By fan voting here he was our most valuable player on a per game and per minute basis.

[carey]

Is there a way to look at Warren's defensive numbers post All-Star break? I recall him playing very well on that end & I'd like to see if there is any statistical proof of that.

[NTB]

Watch on YouTube

[NTB]

Is there a way to look at Warren's defensive numbers post All-Star break? I recall him playing very well on that end & I'd like to see if there is any statistical proof of that.

His defensive rating pre-ASB is 114, post-ASB is 112. A little improvement there.

[carey]

Is there a way to look at Warren's defensive numbers post All-Star break? I recall him playing very well on that end & I'd like to see if there is any statistical proof of that.

His defensive rating pre-ASB is 114, post-ASB is 112. A little improvement there.

Is that the only number we have to look at? I just remember him making a lot of wow plays and sticking to his man like glue in the last 2 months of the season. He did much better offensively. Averaged almost 18 ppg on over 50% shooting the last 2 months as well.

[NTB]

Is there a way to look at Warren's defensive numbers post All-Star break? I recall him playing very well on that end & I'd like to see if there is any statistical proof of that.

His defensive rating pre-ASB is 114, post-ASB is 112. A little improvement there.

Is that the only number we have to look at? I just remember him making a lot of wow plays and sticking to his man like glue in the last 2 months of the season. He did much better offensively. Averaged almost 18 ppg on over 50% shooting the last 2 months as well.

There are a lot of different metrics for defense but I could only reach to this from b-ref.

Offensive rating: pre ASB 108, post ASB 120. Huge I guess.

[Sunzgunz]

Jackson starting could have been promised to get him to cancel workouts.

It wouldn't be the McD Suns if there wasn't drama and a disgruntled player or three.

Don't believe the hype sir. You know Ainge is called the "minister of disinformation" amongst man execs right? And many, including players have accused him of lying, heard a few just in this years draft.

The sac story has a lot of gaps of information, as well as some oddities. Too much to pass blame, especially when you consider the source.

The only thing I feel certain off, based on the draft spot he settled with, is that Tatum was always Ainges guy.

Phx knew it, and so did bj and jj, hence why bj wasn't too quick to set up a workout and when he finally did....at Jjs request...it was with the stipulation the pick meant jj would be a Celtic and not traded. Fair enough, bj has a fiduciary responsibility to JJ, and JJ only, they both want stability. bj speaks with Phil regarding a possible JJ trade...gets fuzzy from there.

Who's to blame? Who knows?

JJ: for not wanting to play with Boston? Not true! He spoke about wanting to pair up with brown and being part of a good contending nucleus, and said in several situations, prior to Boston trade talks with Chicago, Indiana and new York, that he thought he could be a celtic.

Suns: all they did was work him out and influence him to want to play for phx. EVERY TEAM does that with prospects they covet, it's a major reason for scheduling in person workouts. Furthermore, Phx didn't make the phone call canceling JJs workout.

Boston: while it's not their fault someone may have made that cancelation call late, JJ did want to play for Boston at one point, it was the instability that pushed BJ away. Kid was linked to like 3 trade talks before he even got drafted. At the end of the day, Ainge still could of drafted him. In fact, when ball cancelled his workout, Ainge said he they would still consider drafting him. They drafted people in the past who hadn't worked out for him. He later said, regarding JJ, they couldn't draft him if they hadn't had an official workout. The only possible wrong doing in all this is making the cancellation call way too late!

BJ: His fiduciary responsibility is with JJ, his very job is to put JJ in the very best position possible. He lobbied for number 1 initially, more money. But BJ said almost from day one he believed Tatum was their guy, JJ didn't get into the picture until all the trade talks packaging JJ came about. So he had his clients best interest at heart.

The only possible wrong done to the Celtics was a very late phone call. And if true, it's a crappy thing to do, or mistake somebody made. Who gets the blame? Maybe BJ, or maybe someone else in the wasserman office. Maybe it was intentional, maybe it was incompetence. Maybe Ainge is living up to his nickname.

The amount of behind the scenes type of information that Ryan and Ainge made public after the fact, was a little odd. Not a whole lot if detail describing the incident, but they sure did reveal their motives when it was over. You usually don't show your poker hand while bluffing.

Is it possible that Ainge, great at acquiring drafts picks, but getting pressure for not always converting them, created a smokescreen regarding really wanting JJ at the last second to squeeze something out of PHX, and when he failed, he came clean with Ryan but in cahoots they created a story that made Tatum the obvious choice even if JJ outplays him? ...ah, conspiracy! Maybe, maybe Not!


Change of subject (jj/tj starter)

All things being equal, JJ probably gets the nod, but we have a summer league, 8 preseason games, and a lot of intense competitive practices to help determine that. Good news is, regardless to who starts, there is plenty of minutes to go around:)

[bigfoot]

His defensive rating pre-ASB is 114, post-ASB is 112. A little improvement there.

Is that the only number we have to look at? I just remember him making a lot of wow plays and sticking to his man like glue in the last 2 months of the season. He did much better offensively. Averaged almost 18 ppg on over 50% shooting the last 2 months as well.

There are a lot of different metrics for defense but I could only reach to this from b-ref.

Offensive rating: pre ASB 108, post ASB 120. Huge I guess.

Warren is a keeper. Those post ASB numbers are very good for a losing team (120/112). Put in perspective

Booker for the season 103/116
Knight 101/116

Those were our two worst defenders. If Booker fails to improve his defense I would trade him for KP in a heartbeat.

[sunsfever68]

Play all young guys this year let them all gel.

Resign Len, see if there's something there next year or two and start him and play him 35 mins a game. Don't want to completely give up on him yet without seeing him for another year at least with full minutes.

Regardless next year, the guy I want is DeAndre Ayton or Mohammaed Bamba at the 5. I really want Ayton as he can stretch it out and knock down the jumper.

Hopefully we're in a position to pick him, or if we have to trade up and give up an asset (draft pick) or two, it's probably worth it. Adding a stud center big man to our core is what would complete this team.

Ayton could be a once in a generation type prospect and he's the exact type of player we need to add to this young core to compete in the 2020-2030 decade.

Bledsoe Ulis
Booker Reed
Jackson Warren
Chriss Bender
Ayton Williams

Sounds like a great young squad to me

[SunZel]

Thinking about it...josh jackson might be the most highly touted prospect the suns ever drafted. It feels like getting the number 1 pick for the first time.