Wizards Summer League/Training Camp thread

[JWizmentality]

Danuel House is not an NBA player; he's not even close to an NBA player. He wasn't good in college, he wasn't good w/ our SL team, & you'll notice that when we cut him he didn't get picked up by another team.

I'd much rather have Ochefu. At least he did play well in college. I'm not saying I want to keep him this year, but there's sure no reason to imagine Danuel House ever being on our team -- or any NBA team.

Said no one.

Neither of these guys is going to have an NBA career; neither of them is likely to be on our team when the season starts. So there's not much reason to argue about them. Personally, I'd rather argue about Marcus Keene.

That said, it was you, not I, who made a point (twice I believe) of comparing Ochefu & House. So let me ask you a couple of questions:

1. Which of them played for a major college program?
2. Which of them played well for that major college program?

Finally, & you may not be aware of this, Daniel Ochefu has more than 75 times the NBA experience of Danuel House. That should seal the deal, I'd say.

(In fairness, & to be serious for a moment, in his 185 D-League minutes last year, Danuel House played fairly well not terribly -- he only had a .53 TS%, but he rebounded well, didn't foul much, stole it as much as he turned it over, & had a few assists. Not awful -- though I don't think anyone had him as a D League standout.)

But, as I say... how about that Marcus Keene? What do you think?

If your argument is solely based on Ochefu's pedigree then sure, but in the limited amount of time he saw the floor last year he looked lost and utterly useless. House has showed signs he can be somewhat useful.

Here's the reality though. Our bench sucks and Sato has fallen extremely short of the hype he was brought in with (not really knocking him, he's still getting used to the NBA game but was expecting a lot more). Our cap situation stinks and we have little room to improve so we are in no position to write off the lesser haves...except for Ochefu. That guy for all his pedigree sucks balls. Sorry. Not sorry.

[JWizmentality]

Danuel House is not an NBA player; he's not even close to an NBA player. He wasn't good in college, he wasn't good w/ our SL team, & you'll notice that when we cut him he didn't get picked up by another team.

I'd much rather have Ochefu. At least he did play well in college. I'm not saying I want to keep him this year, but there's sure no reason to imagine Danuel House ever being on our team -- or any NBA team.

Said no one.

Ernie Grunfeld.

I rest my case.

[Ruzious]

Yes, GS is "paying some money up front" -- but the real point is that, in fact, a guy like McCaw or Bell doesn't cost them money -- he saves them money:

1. The cap last year was $94.1m. Tax level was $113.1m.
2. Going into last year's draft, GS had 10 guys at $94m.
3. They picked Damian Jones at the end of R1; he cost them $1.2m
4. They needed 4 more guys @ under $2.9m each to stay under the tax.
5. Money you spend to buy a pick doesn't get counted against the cap/tax. (You could argue that it should be)
6. They paid McCaw $543k last year. This year he'll cost them $1.3m. Next year, it'll be $1.7m -- that's 3 years for under $4m. Plus whatever they paid for the pick -- lets assume it was worth @$2m.

#5 is a very good point that I left out. And we're not geniuses... well, at least I'm not. And if we can figure this out - as fans - how is it that Ernie Grunfeld (and he's not the only GM by any stretch in this boat) - as a highly paid GM - hasn't figured it out - at least to the point he can execute it? I need to take some time out to express several cursory pejoratives.

[80sballboy]

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2017/6/26/15874642/danuel-house-jared-cunningham-washington-wizard-nba-summer-league-2017

[gambitx777]

Read on Twitter

Ross is getting a pay check from daddy, hes not a good shooter, or defender and his Turn overs out pace his assists. Kenne is the PG we are giving a shot too, and Pangos is just a body, his euro numbers dropped pretty bad last year. Wayns is a body.

Jared cunningham had a nice year in china but other than that his D league numbers were good, But hes 26, we will get a shot to play but Sheldon is going to start at SG and get most of the burn because we want to see how he plays. Kris Jenkins might not see much time with Cunningham in the fold.

House is back but not sure he starts or not, Devin Robinson is clearly the prospect with a possible future, no reason to to give house more time than needed.

McCullough and Young are clearly going to get the major burn at PF. We need to see if these guys can play or not, they are the ones with potential and lets see.

Ochefu and humphries are going to play the main center minutes I bet. This is likely Ochifus last chance to impress the staff, Humphries needs to get evaluated properly because he might be a ssteal. Roberts is a big camp body nothing more nothing less.

Gambits official prospect to watch rankings. (basically whos most important on this team)
tier 1.
Sheldon Mac
Chris McCullough
tier 2.
Michael Young
devin robinson
Daniel Ochifu
Isacc humprhires
Marcus Keene
tier 3
Jared Cunningham
tier 4
Kris Jenkins
Danuel house
Kevin Pangos
Tier 5
Jalen Ross
Jaleel roberts
Maalik wayns

[payitforward]

...Ochefu... in the limited amount of time he saw the floor last year... looked... useless. House has showed signs he can be somewhat useful.

Ochefu is no good. You are right about him. House is also no good. About him you are wrong.

...Our bench sucks and Sato has fallen extremely short of the hype he was brought in with (not really knocking him, he's still getting used to the NBA game but was expecting a lot more). Our cap situation stinks and we have little room to improve so we are in no position to write off the lesser haves.. Sorry. Not sorry.

1. Just losing Nicholson, Thornton, Burke & Jennings our bench is already better -- a lot better, actually (not saying "good"). Even if all we assume is that those 2000 minutes are played by Sato and Mac at their last year levels.

2. "Lesser haves" -- guys like House -- simply can't make us a better team. Ditto Ochefu. Only good players can make us a better team.

3. You might remember, btw, that I did not buy the hype about Satoransky. I didn't buy the expectations. He played about as well as I thought he would. But, I do expect some improvement from him this year, as I do from Mac. Don't you?

If we are going to keep some young guys w/ no record, it has to be other guys than Daniel-Danuel. That's why I mentioned Keene (though partly tongue in cheek). In our situation, unless we have some guys who can surprise us, we have no way to get better this year. E.g. we already know who Frazier is -- he hasn't made a real jump yet, & he's not making one this year. He's going on 27 !!.

So down the chute w/ House, Ochefu, etc. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. Welcome Devin Robinson, Mike Young & Marcus Keene!!

Do I wish it was Sindarius Thornwell, Jordan Bell & Nigel Williams-Goss instead? Sure. But we have Ernie "until I'm not" Grunfield manning the GM post.

[gambitx777]

...Ochefu... in the limited amount of time he saw the floor last year... looked... useless. House has showed signs he can be somewhat useful.

Ochefu is no good. You are right about him. House is also no good. About him you are wrong.=

I agree on house move on, Devin is a much better prospect, raw but so much potential.

Pif let me ask you something, What if Ochifu come out in summer league and shows you something. What would it take to say ok hes improved lets see on this kid. averaging a double double? Blocking shots, down a bit of weight and a bit more mobile? Like people can improve piff, I agree if he doesn't show marked improvement, he needs to go and give the humpries kid a chance. But Lets see how he does at center in summer League.

About tomas, yes I though he would be better, was he awful, no he showed some promise. he needs work on his offensive flow in game situations, honestly he just needs to sit down and watch some tape and go over some american game theory because its very different than europe and he seems smart enough to get it, he just needs to put in the work. He needs to tweak his shot a bit to to fit the NBA style of D fence. Over all I want to see him get a real shot this real to play over tim frazier.

[JWizmentality]

...Ochefu... in the limited amount of time he saw the floor last year... looked... useless. House has showed signs he can be somewhat useful.

Ochefu is no good. You are right about him. House is also no good. About him you are wrong.

...Our bench sucks and Sato has fallen extremely short of the hype he was brought in with (not really knocking him, he's still getting used to the NBA game but was expecting a lot more). Our cap situation stinks and we have little room to improve so we are in no position to write off the lesser haves.. Sorry. Not sorry.

1. Just losing Nicholson, Thornton, Burke & Jennings our bench is already better -- a lot better, actually (not saying "good"). Even if all we assume is that those 2000 minutes are played by Sato and Mac at their last year levels.

2. "Lesser haves" -- guys like House -- simply can't make us a better team. Ditto Ochefu. Only good players can make us a better team.

3. You might remember, btw, that I did not buy the hype about Satoransky. I didn't buy the expectations. He played about as well as I thought he would. But, I do expect some improvement from him this year, as I do from Mac. Don't you?

If we are going to keep some young guys w/ no record, it has to be other guys than Daniel-Danuel. That's why I mentioned Keene (though partly tongue in cheek). In our situation, unless we have some guys who can surprise us, we have no way to get better this year. E.g. we already know who Frazier is -- he hasn't made a real jump yet, & he's not making one this year. He's going on 27 !!.

So down the chute w/ House, Ochefu, etc. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. Welcome Devin Robinson, Mike Young & Marcus Keene!!

Do I wish it was Sindarius Thornwell, Jordan Bell & Nigel Williams-Goss instead? Sure. But we have Ernie "until I'm not" Grunfield manning the GM post.

I'll make a wager with you. I bet House will perform markedly better than Robinson, Young or Keene in summer league.

[gambitx777]

...Ochefu... in the limited amount of time he saw the floor last year... looked... useless. House has showed signs he can be somewhat useful.

Ochefu is no good. You are right about him. House is also no good. About him you are wrong.

...Our bench sucks and Sato has fallen extremely short of the hype he was brought in with (not really knocking him, he's still getting used to the NBA game but was expecting a lot more). Our cap situation stinks and we have little room to improve so we are in no position to write off the lesser haves.. Sorry. Not sorry.

1. Just losing Nicholson, Thornton, Burke & Jennings our bench is already better -- a lot better, actually (not saying "good"). Even if all we assume is that those 2000 minutes are played by Sato and Mac at their last year levels.

2. "Lesser haves" -- guys like House -- simply can't make us a better team. Ditto Ochefu. Only good players can make us a better team.

3. You might remember, btw, that I did not buy the hype about Satoransky. I didn't buy the expectations. He played about as well as I thought he would. But, I do expect some improvement from him this year, as I do from Mac. Don't you?

If we are going to keep some young guys w/ no record, it has to be other guys than Daniel-Danuel. That's why I mentioned Keene (though partly tongue in cheek). In our situation, unless we have some guys who can surprise us, we have no way to get better this year. E.g. we already know who Frazier is -- he hasn't made a real jump yet, & he's not making one this year. He's going on 27 !!.

So down the chute w/ House, Ochefu, etc. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. Welcome Devin Robinson, Mike Young & Marcus Keene!!

Do I wish it was Sindarius Thornwell, Jordan Bell & Nigel Williams-Goss instead? Sure. But we have Ernie "until I'm not" Grunfield manning the GM post.

I'll make a wager with you. I bet House will perform markedly better than Robinson, Young or Keene in summer league.

Considering Robinson was a borderline draft pick, and young was the same, bother courted during work outs and Kenne is going to be the teams starting PG, they are going to get a lot of burn. House.... could get cut before the first game. Hes not a priority. He probably won't get minutes unless he murders these guys in practice, which I don't see happening.

[JWizmentality]

Ochefu is no good. You are right about him. House is also no good. About him you are wrong.



1. Just losing Nicholson, Thornton, Burke & Jennings our bench is already better -- a lot better, actually (not saying "good"). Even if all we assume is that those 2000 minutes are played by Sato and Mac at their last year levels.

2. "Lesser haves" -- guys like House -- simply can't make us a better team. Ditto Ochefu. Only good players can make us a better team.

3. You might remember, btw, that I did not buy the hype about Satoransky. I didn't buy the expectations. He played about as well as I thought he would. But, I do expect some improvement from him this year, as I do from Mac. Don't you?

If we are going to keep some young guys w/ no record, it has to be other guys than Daniel-Danuel. That's why I mentioned Keene (though partly tongue in cheek). In our situation, unless we have some guys who can surprise us, we have no way to get better this year. E.g. we already know who Frazier is -- he hasn't made a real jump yet, & he's not making one this year. He's going on 27 !!.

So down the chute w/ House, Ochefu, etc. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. Welcome Devin Robinson, Mike Young & Marcus Keene!!

Do I wish it was Sindarius Thornwell, Jordan Bell & Nigel Williams-Goss instead? Sure. But we have Ernie "until I'm not" Grunfield manning the GM post.

I'll make a wager with you. I bet House will perform markedly better than Robinson, Young or Keene in summer league.

Considering Robinson was a borderline draft pick, and young was the same, bother courted during work outs and Kenne is going to be the teams starting PG, they are going to get a lot of burn. House.... could get cut before the first game. Hes not a priority. He probably won't get minutes unless he murders these guys in practice, which I don't see happening.

Nobody on a summer league team sans players already on contract is a priority...neither do they get cut before the 1st game.

[80sballboy]

Ochefu is no good. You are right about him. House is also no good. About him you are wrong.



1. Just losing Nicholson, Thornton, Burke & Jennings our bench is already better -- a lot better, actually (not saying "good"). Even if all we assume is that those 2000 minutes are played by Sato and Mac at their last year levels.

2. "Lesser haves" -- guys like House -- simply can't make us a better team. Ditto Ochefu. Only good players can make us a better team.

3. You might remember, btw, that I did not buy the hype about Satoransky. I didn't buy the expectations. He played about as well as I thought he would. But, I do expect some improvement from him this year, as I do from Mac. Don't you?

If we are going to keep some young guys w/ no record, it has to be other guys than Daniel-Danuel. That's why I mentioned Keene (though partly tongue in cheek). In our situation, unless we have some guys who can surprise us, we have no way to get better this year. E.g. we already know who Frazier is -- he hasn't made a real jump yet, & he's not making one this year. He's going on 27 !!.

So down the chute w/ House, Ochefu, etc. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. Welcome Devin Robinson, Mike Young & Marcus Keene!!

Do I wish it was Sindarius Thornwell, Jordan Bell & Nigel Williams-Goss instead? Sure. But we have Ernie "until I'm not" Grunfield manning the GM post.

I'll make a wager with you. I bet House will perform markedly better than Robinson, Young or Keene in summer league.

Considering Robinson was a borderline draft pick, and young was the same, bother courted during work outs and Kenne is going to be the teams starting PG, they are going to get a lot of burn. House.... could get cut before the first game. Hes not a priority. He probably won't get minutes unless he murders these guys in practice, which I don't see happening.

Michael Young was not a borderline draft pick. It took me awhile to find a scouting report because most sites that didn't have him in their mock draft's first two rounds. If you don't have a scouting report, then you are not very well thought of. House will not get cut before the first game unless he's going to another roster. It's not about being a priority. Most of these guys on SL team are trying to show they can play for the NBA or overseas. The Wiz are just not stacking these rosters with NBA guys. They know they may only have 4-5 players at best that will be invited to camp, depending on what they do with free agency.

[NatP4]

This has to be the worst summer league roster ever assembled. No one has NBA talent on this team outside of the guys in the NBA (not Ochefu)

[NatP4]

Memphis picked up Kobi Simmons *sigh*

[Kanyewest]

On Chad Ford's top 100, here are the corresponding ranks
Robinson- 41
Jenkins - 80
Marcus Keane - 81

On Draftexpress
Robinson- 49
Young- 81

[gambitx777]

I'll make a wager with you. I bet House will perform markedly better than Robinson, Young or Keene in summer league.

Considering Robinson was a borderline draft pick, and young was the same, bother courted during work outs and Kenne is going to be the teams starting PG, they are going to get a lot of burn. House.... could get cut before the first game. Hes not a priority. He probably won't get minutes unless he murders these guys in practice, which I don't see happening.

Nobody on a summer league team sans players already on contract is a priority...neither do they get cut before the 1st game.

Yall do realize there is a summer league roster cut before the first game right?

[gambitx777]

you have actually looked at michaels youngs numbers right? If he put up those numbers on a bigger team he would have been a draft pick!

[payitforward]

Read on Twitter

Ross is getting a pay check from daddy, hes not a good shooter, or defender and his Turn overs out pace his assists. Kenne is the PG we are giving a shot too, and Pangos is just a body, his euro numbers dropped pretty bad last year. Wayns is a body.

Jared cunningham had a nice year in china but other than that his D league numbers were good, But hes 26, we will get a shot to play but Sheldon is going to start at SG and get most of the burn because we want to see how he plays. Kris Jenkins might not see much time with Cunningham in the fold.

House is back but not sure he starts or not, Devin Robinson is clearly the prospect with a possible future, no reason to to give house more time than needed.

McCullough and Young are clearly going to get the major burn at PF. We need to see if these guys can play or not, they are the ones with potential and lets see.

Ochefu and humphries are going to play the main center minutes I bet. This is likely Ochifus last chance to impress the staff, Humphries needs to get evaluated properly because he might be a ssteal. Roberts is a big camp body nothing more nothing less.

Gambits official prospect to watch rankings. (basically whos most important on this team)
tier 1.
Sheldon Mac
Chris McCullough
tier 2.
Michael Young
devin robinson
Daniel Ochifu
Isacc humprhires
Marcus Keene
tier 3
Jared Cunningham
tier 4
Kris Jenkins
Danuel house
Kevin Pangos
Tier 5
Jalen Ross
Jaleel roberts
Maalik wayns

Mac, McCullough, Robinson, Humphries, Keene & Young -- that's more to watch than usual on our SL team. Not to mention that we actually have room on the team for all of those guys, so I hope they all look like they deserve that shot.

McCullough is signed. He'll be with us. This is the year for him to show he's an NBA player, otherwise we likely don't pick up his next-year option. He should be very motivated.

Mac's this-year option will be picked up. Actually, I hope they'll work out a cheap 3-year deal w/ Mac. I'm pretty confident he'll earn it & more.

Robinson is enough of a prospect that I'm already in favor of signing him for the year. Last year undrafted rookies made $543K; can't have changed much this year. I'll be surprised if he isn't a Wizard.

Humphries, Keene & Young, each in different ways, have question marks attached to them. But, lets suppose we sign all of them along with Robinson. Those 4 rookies will cost $3m or less. Assuming for a moment that we sign Otto for $20m, we'd be at @ $118m for 16 players. We might be able to sign a veteran minimum player, have 17 guys, & still stay under the luxury tax limit.

[payitforward]

Memphis picked up Kobi Simmons *sigh*

What do you like best about Kobi Simmons, nat? Do you like his 43% 2-point shooting best? Or is it his 32.7% 3-point shooting?

Do you like the fact that, as a point guard, he got 3.4 assists every 40 minutes? Is that what impresses you about him? Or is it the grand total of 2.8 rebounds he managed to snatch in those 40 minutes?

I know... you meant to write "whew!" but by mistake you wrote "sigh." That must be it, right?

[payitforward]

you have actually looked at michaels youngs numbers right? If he put up those numbers on a bigger team he would have been a draft pick!

I think Nat is wrong in saying conclusively that there are no NBA talents on this SL roster. I like all the rookies. Lets see what they can do!

OTOH, the only thing that gives me any confidence in Michael Young is that CCJ likes him -- other than he did score 30 points in one game this season. Then again, Jamel Artis (sp?) on the same team scored 43 points in one game last season, & I don't see anyone scrambling to bring him in.

As a PF, Young got 8.1 boards per 40 minutes. His TS% was .56 -- nothing special for a PF. Robinson's numbers were better than Young's. Young is listed at 6' 9", but he looks about 6' 6" to me. I could be wrong about that.

I like him all the same. He has skills.

[JWizmentality]

Considering Robinson was a borderline draft pick, and young was the same, bother courted during work outs and Kenne is going to be the teams starting PG, they are going to get a lot of burn. House.... could get cut before the first game. Hes not a priority. He probably won't get minutes unless he murders these guys in practice, which I don't see happening.

Nobody on a summer league team sans players already on contract is a priority...neither do they get cut before the 1st game.

Yall do realize there is a summer league roster cut before the first game right?

What are you talking about? It isn't training camp.