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official Melo trade speculation - thread 2

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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1201 » by Sark » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:48 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Delusional? :lol:

Delusional is thinking his trade value would be high after the way PJax handled the situation. If I'm desperate to dump something, guess what? A buyer knows that and will not overpay for it - unless you're the Knicks (see Bargs trade).

Delusional is thinking what you settle for in a deal is an indicator of the actual value of the player. PJax has gotten fleeced multiple times. See Chandler and Shump deals, where he used guys with value just to dump salary, just to sign a guy that he would trade a year later in another salary dump (on one of the guys he traded for in the Chandler deal), only to sign the worst contract in the NBA.

Delusional is thinking his contract is the worst in the NBA. Which you stated and have yet to make a convincing argument for.

Answer the question. 29 GMs lined up. They have a choice - Melo on 2 years, Joakim on 3. Who are they taking?



You can't have 29 GMs line up to bid for Melo because of his own doing. There are only 2 buyers for Melo. In economics this is known as a duopsony, which creates inefficiencies.

Noah is much easier to move because 29 GMs would be able to competitively bid for him, and there are no artificial barriers to trading him.


except for the fact that 29 gms have no interest in him at that salary



That's your opinion, which is probably mostly true, but bad contracts have been moved in the past. At least there are no artificial barriers. There is only low demand.

In Melo's case there is no demand because Melo says so.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1202 » by god shammgod » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:54 pm

Sark wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Sark wrote:

You can't have 29 GMs line up to bid for Melo because of his own doing. There are only 2 buyers for Melo. In economics this is known as a duopsony, which creates inefficiencies.

Noah is much easier to move because 29 GMs would be able to competitively bid for him, and there are no artificial barriers to trading him.


except for the fact that 29 gms have no interest in him at that salary



That's your opinion, which is probably mostly true, but bad contracts have been moved in the past. At least there are no artificial barriers. There is only low demand.

In Melo's case there is no demand because Melo says so.


there is an actual barrier. it's not artificial. the barrier is that nobody wants him. on his own, you can't move noah. on his own, you can move melo if he ok's it. only one of them has any value at all. this argument is ridiculous.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1203 » by Sark » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:04 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Sark wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
except for the fact that 29 gms have no interest in him at that salary



That's your opinion, which is probably mostly true, but bad contracts have been moved in the past. At least there are no artificial barriers. There is only low demand.

In Melo's case there is no demand because Melo says so.


there is an actual barrier. it's not artificial. the barrier is that nobody wants him. on his own, you can't move noah. on his own, you can move melo if he ok's it. only one of them has any value at all. this argument is ridiculous.


That's pure speculation on your part. Have you talked to the 29 teams, and know they would never trade for him? He was hurt last year, but had interest from other teams before he signed. Washington was interested. Centers get hurt all the time. If he comes back healthy, and another playoff team loses its center, someone may call.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1204 » by dakomish23 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:05 pm

Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Would you like to make a bet on Melo being traded? When we talk about Knicks fans being the most delusional in NY, Melo's trade value is probably the biggest indicator. He has no value because of the no trade clause.


Delusional? :lol:

Delusional is thinking his trade value would be high after the way PJax handled the situation. If I'm desperate to dump something, guess what? A buyer knows that and will not overpay for it - unless you're the Knicks (see Bargs trade).

Delusional is thinking what you settle for in a deal is an indicator of the actual value of the player. PJax has gotten fleeced multiple times. See Chandler and Shump deals, where he used guys with value just to dump salary, just to sign a guy that he would trade a year later in another salary dump (on one of the guys he traded for in the Chandler deal), only to sign the worst contract in the NBA.

Delusional is thinking his contract is the worst in the NBA. Which you stated and have yet to make a convincing argument for.

Answer the question. 29 GMs lined up. They have a choice - Melo on 2 years, Joakim on 3. Who are they taking?



You can't have 29 GMs line up to bid for Melo because of his own doing. There are only 2 buyers for Melo. In economics this is known as a duopsony, which creates inefficiencies.

Noah is much easier to move because 29 GMs would be able to competitively bid for him, and there are no artificial barriers to trading him.


Not sure how you didn't get that this is about their value in an open market where both are openly available to everyon. Translation: the NTC is waived.

In a world where:

You put Melo out there on his remaining deal

You put Noah out there on his remaining deal

Who are 29 teams taking?
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1205 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:06 pm

Battery wrote:
shtolky wrote:
Battery wrote:
He's not going to play here because the organization is going in a different direction. Melo wants to be waived so he can get all his money and go wherever. The team will make it uncomfortable for him if he doesn't accept a buyout.



I think he legit loves NY and playing in NY. It seems winning to him is secondary and he wants to finish things out here. I really don't know, but I just don't think it's going to get as dramatic as some think.



Him loving NY and playing here is all fine and dandy until the organization tells him that we don't want you anymore. This is about money and sticking it to Phil. He will be gone soon and most likely agree to a buyout.


i think melo is dug in at home. he'd probably sign with the nets or somewhere nearby like philly, boston, DC if we cut him. cleveland is probably the next closest team geographically.

i'm hoping we just let it go. he's got one more year and an option. just let him live peacefully. if he asks out because of what's happening on the court, cool. if not, let him do what he does within the context of the team direction. we don't exactly have a young 3 yet to replace him, so whatever. he's not really in anyone's way.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1206 » by Sark » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:10 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Delusional? :lol:

Delusional is thinking his trade value would be high after the way PJax handled the situation. If I'm desperate to dump something, guess what? A buyer knows that and will not overpay for it - unless you're the Knicks (see Bargs trade).

Delusional is thinking what you settle for in a deal is an indicator of the actual value of the player. PJax has gotten fleeced multiple times. See Chandler and Shump deals, where he used guys with value just to dump salary, just to sign a guy that he would trade a year later in another salary dump (on one of the guys he traded for in the Chandler deal), only to sign the worst contract in the NBA.

Delusional is thinking his contract is the worst in the NBA. Which you stated and have yet to make a convincing argument for.

Answer the question. 29 GMs lined up. They have a choice - Melo on 2 years, Joakim on 3. Who are they taking?



You can't have 29 GMs line up to bid for Melo because of his own doing. There are only 2 buyers for Melo. In economics this is known as a duopsony, which creates inefficiencies.

Noah is much easier to move because 29 GMs would be able to competitively bid for him, and there are no artificial barriers to trading him.


Not sure how you didn't get that this is about their value in an open market where both are openly available to everyon. Translation: the NTC is waived.

In a world where:

You put Melo out there on his remaining deal

You put Noah out there on his remaining deal

Who are 29 teams taking?


You're creating an alternate reality for your scenario. In the real world Melo has a NTC.

Sure. In an alternate reality where Melo doesn't have a NTC, then he is easily more tradeable. But we're talking about the real world, where Melo does have a NTC.

Let's talk about reality and not fantasy.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1207 » by shtolky » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:12 pm

Battery wrote:
shtolky wrote:
Battery wrote:
He's not going to play here because the organization is going in a different direction. Melo wants to be waived so he can get all his money and go wherever. The team will make it uncomfortable for him if he doesn't accept a buyout.



I think he legit loves NY and playing in NY. It seems winning to him is secondary and he wants to finish things out here. I really don't know, but I just don't think it's going to get as dramatic as some think.



Him loving NY and playing here is all fine and dandy until the organization tells him that we don't want you anymore. This is about money and sticking it to Phil. He will be gone soon and most likely agree to a buyout.



Sure, but haven't we already essentially told him we don't want him anymore? Short of flat out saying, get the hell off the team (which I am sure we would never say), I think it's clear we are looking to move on. We see things from the outside but we don't know about his family situation, if he cares about winning more than living in the northeast, etc. I just can't imagine buying out Melo, who, despite all the negative press, would still bring in some assets. Better wait it out than just cutting him. You think Dolan is going to want to pay him millions to play for the Cavs? He's got 2 years left at over 50m. You usually don't buy those guys out. Again, despite the hyperbole, Phil has been pretty gracious and complimentary when talking about Melo, and has hardly "humiliated him" as I've seen some say. I don't think this becomes a circus, either they work things out or Melo agrees to a deal.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1208 » by dakomish23 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:14 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Billy Goat wrote:
Would you like to make a bet on Melo being traded? When we talk about Knicks fans being the most delusional in NY, Melo's trade value is probably the biggest indicator. He has no value because of the no trade clause.


Delusional? :lol:

Delusional is thinking his trade value would be high after the way PJax handled the situation. If I'm desperate to dump something, guess what? A buyer knows that and will not overpay for it - unless you're the Knicks (see Bargs trade).

Delusional is thinking what you settle for in a deal is an indicator of the actual value of the player. PJax has gotten fleeced multiple times. See Chandler and Shump deals, where he used guys with value just to dump salary, just to sign a guy that he would trade a year later in another salary dump (on one of the guys he traded for in the Chandler deal), only to sign the worst contract in the NBA.

Delusional is thinking his contract is the worst in the NBA. Which you stated and have yet to make a convincing argument for.

Answer the question. 29 GMs lined up. They have a choice - Melo on 2 years, Joakim on 3. Who are they taking?


Teams are taking Noah because there's no issue with him sitting on the bench and playing limited minutes. He also doesnt demand shots. Noah if healthy can still be a useful piece for a contending team- he defends, rebounds and passes....Melo gives you inefficient volume shooting and jab steps at 28 million.


So teams would rather

pay Noah that ridiculous salary to sit on the bench, since he can't produce on the floor, as proven last year, but he'll gladly take the paycheck and loaf, who also has more years on his deal

versus

getting a guy who can actually help you win games, as proven last year, who also has the skillset to play in the modern NBA, who is also on a shorter deal?

Oh and he's more efficient than Noah. :lol:

It's not close. If I replaced the name Melo with player A and lined up everything, you'd say player A.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1209 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:15 pm

ForzaMetro wrote:I wouldn't buy him out. Things have a way of changing quickly. Maybe the Cavs whiff on PG and others and get desperate. Maybe early in the season a contender suffers an injury to a key player. Maybe Melo resolves his family issues (hopefully for his sake) and expands his list of teams he would be willing to go to.

I simply don't buy that he is enough of a distraction that we need to pay him to not play.


this!
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1210 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:16 pm

SARGO127 wrote:Melo to Philly for future second

Fultz
Redick
Simmons
Melo / Saric
Embiid / Okafor


i'd try to get saric off their hands. they seem to not be as high on him as the others, even covington.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1211 » by Rotten Apple » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:19 pm

newyorker4ever wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:Melo isn't corrupting anyone.

Phil started the BS and of all the people in the basketball his teammates see this.

Melo holding the ball and not playing defense are the most overblown things we keep reading.

Phil doesn't even wanna trade Melo imo, he just wants him to completely play the way Phil wants to.

If Phil wanted him gone I think he'd have been gone by now.



You cannot be serious with this right?? Phil doesn't wanna trade Melo?? The only truth in that is that Phil wants and not even wants cause it's more wanted Melo to play the system Phil wants to run and what's wrong with that?? Once in a while Melo would play the right way and when he did he would play pretty damn good and when Melo wants to, he's actually a really good passer but it would only last for a game or two.


Again if he wanted him gone he would have done it, same with KP.

Remember Phil had a trade for Melo but balked

He said similar things in regards to both players when it came to potential trades.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1212 » by dakomish23 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:21 pm

Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Sark wrote:

You can't have 29 GMs line up to bid for Melo because of his own doing. There are only 2 buyers for Melo. In economics this is known as a duopsony, which creates inefficiencies.

Noah is much easier to move because 29 GMs would be able to competitively bid for him, and there are no artificial barriers to trading him.


Not sure how you didn't get that this is about their value in an open market where both are openly available to everyon. Translation: the NTC is waived.

In a world where:

You put Melo out there on his remaining deal

You put Noah out there on his remaining deal

Who are 29 teams taking?


You're creating an alternate reality for your scenario. In the real world Melo has a NTC.

Sure. In an alternate reality where Melo doesn't have a NTC, then he is easily more tradeable. But we're talking about the real world, where Melo does have a NTC.

Let's talk about reality and not fantasy.


When I give a scenario to determine who's on the worse contract - which is the original argument - you have to make it an open market.

It's not fantasy. It's a question of which contract is better and you have to present in this scenario to get a fair response.

At least you admitted the truth that some won't. Melo would be picked hands down.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1213 » by Sark » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:35 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Not sure how you didn't get that this is about their value in an open market where both are openly available to everyon. Translation: the NTC is waived.

In a world where:

You put Melo out there on his remaining deal

You put Noah out there on his remaining deal

Who are 29 teams taking?


You're creating an alternate reality for your scenario. In the real world Melo has a NTC.

Sure. In an alternate reality where Melo doesn't have a NTC, then he is easily more tradeable. But we're talking about the real world, where Melo does have a NTC.

Let's talk about reality and not fantasy.


When I give a scenario to determine who's on the worse contract - which is the original argument - you have to make it an open market.

It's not fantasy. It's a question of which contract is better and you have to present in this scenario to get a fair response.

At least you admitted the truth that some won't. Melo would be picked hands down.



Carmelo is a much better player than Noah. Of course, with all things being equal, he would be more wanted.

All things are not equal though. Melo has a barrier in the form of a NTC, which prevents him from being traded.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1214 » by Billy Goat » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:39 pm

Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Sark wrote:
You're creating an alternate reality for your scenario. In the real world Melo has a NTC.

Sure. In an alternate reality where Melo doesn't have a NTC, then he is easily more tradeable. But we're talking about the real world, where Melo does have a NTC.

Let's talk about reality and not fantasy.


When I give a scenario to determine who's on the worse contract - which is the original argument - you have to make it an open market.

It's not fantasy. It's a question of which contract is better and you have to present in this scenario to get a fair response.

At least you admitted the truth that some won't. Melo would be picked hands down.



Carmelo is a much better player than Noah. Of course, with all things being equal, he would be more wanted.

All things are not equal though. Melo has a barrier in the form of a NTC, which prevents him from being traded.


Physically gifted? Sure. Who actually contributes more to winning? Probably Noah. You dont get extra credit for looking smooth taking long two point jumpers and missing them.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1215 » by NYKnicksTAPE » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:40 pm

I'd like to see Melo moved before the start of next season so that we can have a fresh start with the focus being solely on the young guys and their development with no drama or distractions, but Melo isn't waiving that NTC.

damn, who would've thought at the time of the Melo trade that a couple of years later people would be talking about buying him out
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1216 » by Battery » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:20 pm

shtolky wrote:
Battery wrote:
shtolky wrote:

I think he legit loves NY and playing in NY. It seems winning to him is secondary and he wants to finish things out here. I really don't know, but I just don't think it's going to get as dramatic as some think.



Him loving NY and playing here is all fine and dandy until the organization tells him that we don't want you anymore. This is about money and sticking it to Phil. He will be gone soon and most likely agree to a buyout.



Sure, but haven't we already essentially told him we don't want him anymore? Short of flat out saying, get the hell off the team (which I am sure we would never say), I think it's clear we are looking to move on. We see things from the outside but we don't know about his family situation, if he cares about winning more than living in the northeast, etc. I just can't imagine buying out Melo, who, despite all the negative press, would still bring in some assets. Better wait it out than just cutting him. You think Dolan is going to want to pay him millions to play for the Cavs? He's got 2 years left at over 50m. You usually don't buy those guys out. Again, despite the hyperbole, Phil has been pretty gracious and complimentary when talking about Melo, and has hardly "humiliated him" as I've seen some say. I don't think this becomes a circus, either they work things out or Melo agrees to a deal.


The problem is nobody is going to give up assets for him, at least not from the teams that he would agree to go to. Trading him we would have to bring back equal salary, and unless we can flip that person for a first rounder, then there is no point in the deal. We wouldn't be saving much money if we had just bought Melo out in the first place. Next year Melo will be replaced by a young player making much less money, so in the end, it all evens out if we were to just buy his butt out now.

We need to tank one more season, but in the process develop our young players to play the way that wins championships. We are building from the ground up and the process is beginning now. You don't keep part of a crumbling foundation (Melo) around when you are trying to build a brand new building. The longer he stays, the more it chips away at the foundation. We need another good young homegrown player or two to help build a solid foundation. Then once that happens we look outside the organization to fill in the missing pieces. You don't fill in the missing pieces now until we see what we have in our young players.

As for his family life, I have no sympathy for him there. For his son, yes, but not for him. According to all reports, he was the one who cheated on his wife. If he was that concerned about his son, he would not have done that. I'm not saying he's a bad guy because he's only human and as humans we all make mistakes.

He is much better off being someplace else where he can take part in something that is much greater than himself, which is playing team basketball that competes for a championship. And with all the new technology today, he can still see his son whenever he wants.

There will be a buyout because the empty roster spot can be filled with another young player our coaching staff can mold. That is worth a lot more than keeping Melo on the roster who will only put us in a position to draft a player that is most likely not ready for the NBA. We need to get into the top 5 next draft, preferably top 3. Gives us the flexibility to do many more things next offseason which is key because then you are in a position of power, like Boston.
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1217 » by Rotten Apple » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:29 pm

Billy Goat wrote:
Sark wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
When I give a scenario to determine who's on the worse contract - which is the original argument - you have to make it an open market.

It's not fantasy. It's a question of which contract is better and you have to present in this scenario to get a fair response.

At least you admitted the truth that some won't. Melo would be picked hands down.



Carmelo is a much better player than Noah. Of course, with all things being equal, he would be more wanted.

All things are not equal though. Melo has a barrier in the form of a NTC, which prevents him from being traded.


Physically gifted? Sure. Who actually contributes more to winning? Probably Noah. You dont get extra credit for looking smooth taking long two point jumpers and missing them.

:lol:

I can't believe you typed that
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1218 » by Rotten Apple » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:29 pm

Y'all be writing a whole bunch of nothing
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1219 » by El Poochio » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:38 pm

Sounds like someone wants to trade for Melo

"Look at our team. We are one piece away," Wall said. "We have the point guard, we have the shooting guard, we have the center, we have the power forward. Our 3-man [Otto Porter Jr.] did great for us. You can't take nothing away from what he did. But [George] is a guy that can guard LeBron and go back at LeBron. It's a piece that you're going to need to win. If you don't have a guy who can do that, you don't have a chance. ...

"You got to add another star. You got to add another piece. You got to have three guys. And that's what it's looking like."


Melo for Otto Porter WAKE UP PHIL

At least get Oubre and a pick ffs
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Re: official Melo trade speculation - thread 2 

Post#1220 » by Triple C » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:40 pm

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