All Things Luka Doncic

[PhilBlackson]

Personally I would never take him over Porter Jr, Knox or Kostas Antentokounmpo.

[Cactus Jack]

Hedo Türkoğlu

[dukes_wild]

Sad how underwhelming this draft class is.

[PLO]

Sad how underwhelming this draft class is.

Reckon it will be a solid class outside the top 8 or so - top heavy in the bigs and some pretty good wings. If you look at the returning guys of note its already a decent SG/SF group when you add in the Troy Browns etc who are expected to impress it looks good at those positions. Of course that group will be headed by Porter and Doncic but I think better value will be found outside those two if current mocks are to be believed and they go top 5. Porter's ability to play SF will depend on his handle which is pretty basic at this stage and Doncic's athleticism issue has already been mentioned. I don't think its a great year to be looking for a starting one except if you have a very top pick and I reckon even given the league is awash with good PGs you'll likely see some reaches at that position.

It will be interesting to me to compare how well-rounded the players from 2018 will be compared to the last few years. To me the most well-round prospects from this year are Fultz, Isaac and DSJ, unsurprisingly they are my top guys from this year. Given a number of top players have been held back you would think their games would be better given the extra year or so they've had to prepare, but already you can see some flaws in the next batch of guys. Likely though the extra year they've had hasn't helped them: it does nothing for Porter, for example, to be playing against players who have no where near his athleticism or size - his biggest weakness is his handle and it hasn't improved that much in recent years from the footage I've seen. How could it? He has no reason to improve it when he can still score at will versus weak opposition. If it stays the same next season with no improvement he's going to have to be overwhelmingly great in at least one other area to compensate to lock up a top 3 pick, a la Ben Simmons from 2016.

[SportsGuy8]

He only goes 1st if the rest of the top tier underwhelm, imo. Not a knock on Doncic, but he clearly doesn't have the highest ceiling out of the top guys for athletic reasons. Not a bad athlete, but not a star athlete, and that's more or less a prerequisite for the highest level of NBA players.

Doncic's ceiling would be Hayward-esque but a bit more playmaking orientated, imo.

Or if he makes another leap. I remember how I started to get a bit worried about him like a year ago, then he made a real leap in his game, mostly by starting to get a lot more assertive, at the end of last year. If he makes another similar leap and actually really starts dominating in Europe he's going to be real competition for 1st for anyone ... That's a big IF, though.

This is the key thing for me. It's still difficult to know for sure just how good he can be, mostly because he's still on a leash, by both his coach who quickly limits his minutes in most games where he starts out badly, but also by himself, by playing a bit too timid, trying to avoid mistakes. It's hard to understand for US fans just how important each individual game is for a team like Real Madrid, even vs. lesser teams. So basically, there's no moment during the season when he can truly relax, run everything and play the game the way he wants to play it, a luxury that other top prospects have in both HS and NCAA. Not even mentioning having to submit to a very ball-dominant player in Llull. Unfortunately he's also going to have a similar situation playing for Slovenia, because the ball is obviously mostly going to be in Dragic's hands. His role should still be bigger than in Real, though.

We're simply going to have to wait and see ... Maybe we get an answer before he gets to the NBA, maybe not.

[SportsGuy8]

Btw., this was one of the rare occasions when he was actually able to be the focal point of offense, mostly because Llull had a very bad game and played limited minutes:

Watch on YouTube

The problem is that he almost never gets and opportunity to truly run the offense (this game was an exception, due to special circumstances), something he truly thrives at. He only gets a couple shots at it per game, something that's completely different than running possession after possession ...

Note that I'm obviously not saying he would always perform like this, maybe it was just a really good night for him, but my point is that we just don't know at this point. He simply needs more opportunities to truly run the team and not just bring the ball up court and then look for either Llull or someone posting up.

[Patsfan1081]

Sad how underwhelming this draft class is.

Is it? As a Celtic fan I'm actually more intrigued with this class than the last. Ayton, Bamba, Porter, Mitchell Robinson, Jaren Jackson are all pretty interesting prospects coming in. It's hard to get a read on just how good they'll be yet if just a couple of those guys live up to the hype I think the top can be 6-8 deep with Doncic, Sexton, Williams, and Bridges. Not a fan of Duval or that other big man going to Duke, can't think of his name but I know he needs to get in better shape. Diallo and Brown should be interesting to follow also.

[Juree93]

Some of his best games also happens to be when Llul was injured. I hope he gets more responsibility and freedom next season but i dont expect it simply because he plan to leave Real for NBA.

[OGSactownballer]

Bulls fan here. As someone who only started looking at Doncic this week, I'm glad to hear his highlights don't do him justice because they don't do much for me.

Also, why do Doncic threads go off the rails? Why's this guy so controversial around here?

The truth nobody likes to face.

1) he's white
2) he's a Euro
3) he's a shooting guard essentially
4) he's in he discussion for the #1 overall pick in a good draft

Any two of these reasons are enough to cause some pretty lively argument in any year. Add to that the fact that (even when I am over in Europe and I go at least once a year) it is a royal pain in the ass to get ahold of decent footage to compare, and you have a recipe for a maelstrom.

We are at a bit of an advantage here in Sac with Vlade as GM and Peja involved too ( they are like basketball gods in Eastern Europe) in that we often get better evals and comparisons. But it's still feels like a crap shoot to Americans because the play style is not the same.

It's exactly the reason why San Antonio always has really great Euro players out of the depths of the draft. They style is about fundamentals, ball movement and a team oriented game that is exactly the way the Spurs play ball.

[UcanUwill]

Doncic discussion always goes south, because there is a huge disagreement between American fans who only watches highlights and passionate Euro fans who think they are knowitall.

[BoardCrusher]

It was quite obvious throughout this whole season, whenever Llull was playing heroball for heavy minutes, Doncic would dissapear, but to be fair, Llull is the nr1 star of RM team afterall, and everyone could see Doncic has huge respect for Llull.
And this is the thing that is the most concerning, if he will be paired with ball dominant shoot first PGs, we will not see him develope to his full potencial, because of his height and good shooting ability he will be assigned to other positions.
He himself stated he likes to play PG the most, but I believe a point forward would suit him the best, perhaps even SG, but would have to handle the ball quite a lot to be fully effective.
So how good will he be in the NBA it all comes down to the team he goes to and how he will be utilized. For example if Celtics resign IT and draft Doncic, he will suck bigtime, on the other hand, if he is given free hands there is the potencial of him being one of the greatest euros to ever play the game.

Ill paste some game highlights where he was pretty much allowed to play his game. There were quite a few this season, but there were many games as well, where you could notice Llull was kinda determined to show who the boss is in the team, and I gotta mention many of those games were lost. For example Llull will keep shooting 3pt shots despite being like 1/10 while I dont recall Doncic ever attempting 10 3pt shots in a single game

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[reanimator]

An average athlete with average size and rudimentary scoring ability is the first overall pick of the draft just because he can handle, pass and occasionally knock down step back 3s?

[No-Man]

An average athlete with average size and rudimentary scoring ability is the first overall pick of the draft just because he can handle, pass and occasionally knock down step back 3s?

would you be more optimistic about his skills if he were able to hold the 4 on D? I think eventually he might get there, still growing, he is around 6'8 now but could be at 6'9, really good frame for his age, and his skills at that spot are truly elite for a combo-f type or a big, even if you don't like his athletic profile.

[BoardCrusher]

An average athlete with average size and rudimentary scoring ability is the first overall pick of the draft just because he can handle, pass and occasionally knock down step back 3s?

no he is not, but you did fall for the clickbait title and once again showed us how poorly you are able to evaluate euro prospects.

especially with "occasionally knock down step back 3s?", as in euroleague he is in the top when it comes to off the dribble stepback 3pts

[reanimator]

An average athlete with average size and rudimentary scoring ability is the first overall pick of the draft just because he can handle, pass and occasionally knock down step back 3s?

would you be more optimistic about his skills if he were able to hold the 4 on D? I think eventually he might get there, still growing, he is around 6'8 now but could be at 6'9, really good frame for his age, and his skills at that spot are truly elite for a combo-f type or a big, even if you don't like his athletic profile.

I actually like Doncic's skillset...utility players are incredibly valuable. I have more issues with his scoring package than his tools tbh. I do like your idea of him as a smallball 4 though and that has sold me on him as a high lotto guy.

[XTraderXL]

I agree with BoardCrusher. Lukas best games were when Llull was on the bench and/or was injured. Then he knew he has almost guaranteed 25min so he was much more relaxed and played his game. He is 18, playing for Real where every game carries pressure and plays with veterans. Of course he will be timid and respectful. This season he showed he can play on the highest Euro level, next year he will be much more confident and will have a bigger role. I think training and playing with Dragic for almost 2 months will benefit him greatly, Goran is a much better player than Llull and he doesnt have his ego so he will let Luka play his game much more than Llull. He will also have an NBA coach so it will be interesting to see how he will play in a more NBA-like system.

He has all the skills to be a good scorer, he just needs to be more aggressive on offense. Aggressiveness is very related to the confidence a player has, he has to know that he will not be taken out of the game if he misses 2 shots in a row. Laso was doing this regularly while Llull shot 4/16 and still played 30 min and got all the shots he wanted.

I can relate to Luka a bit as I played pro ball myself. I wasnt at his level at his age but I was also 2nd year player on a pro senior team at 18. I knew I could score 20 each game but my avg was about 8. This was because I had so much respect for older players and I was not aggressive enough on offense. The next season I got more comfortable and more confident and my avg went from 8 to 22pp. The 22ppg season coincides with Lukas next season and I expect him to get more minutes, bigger role and be more effective overall. The rebounding is there already, passing as well and scoring will come naturally too.

Regarding the draft, I think he will not go 1 but will be in top 4. I believe he will be selected 3rd behind Ayton and Porter if they dont drop off.

[UcanUwill]

http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/7wrfjkteddefvk56/post-season-survey-of-euroleague-legends

[Mirotic12]

would you be more optimistic about his skills if he were able to hold the 4 on D? I think eventually he might get there, still growing, he is around 6'8 now but could be at 6'9, really good frame for his age, and his skills at that spot are truly elite for a combo-f type or a big, even if you don't like his athletic profile.

I thought he might be 6-8 in shoes, but I saw him standing very close next to Jeff Taylor not too long ago, and he was definitely shorter than Taylor. Taylor was listed by NBA as 6-7 in shoes.

Maybe it's because Taylor has a ton of hair, that it makes him look taller, but it was really clear when they stood right next to each other, Taylor looked taller. I'm not giving Doncic more than 6-7 in shoes height for the current time now.

no he is not, but you did fall for the clickbait title and once again showed us how poorly you are able to evaluate euro prospects.

especially with "occasionally knock down step back 3s?", as in euroleague he is in the top when it comes to off the dribble stepback 3pts

Do you mean one of the best at step back 3s? Because he's definitely not the best in EuroLeague at that......

Milos Teodosic
Vassilis Spanoulis
Juan Carlos Navarro
Sergio Llull
Keith Langford
K.C. Rivers
Scottie Wilbekin

Every single one of them is way better at the step back 3 than Doncic is.

I agree with BoardCrusher. Lukas best games were when Llull was on the bench and/or was injured. Then he knew he has almost guaranteed 25min so he was much more relaxed and played his game. He is 18, playing for Real where every game carries pressure and plays with veterans. Of course he will be timid and respectful. This season he showed he can play on the highest Euro level, next year he will be much more confident and will have a bigger role. I think training and playing with Dragic for almost 2 months will benefit him greatly, Goran is a much better player than Llull and he doesnt have his ego so he will let Luka play his game much more than Llull. He will also have an NBA coach so it will be interesting to see how he will play in a more NBA-like system.

He has all the skills to be a good scorer, he just needs to be more aggressive on offense. Aggressiveness is very related to the confidence a player has, he has to know that he will not be taken out of the game if he misses 2 shots in a row. Laso was doing this regularly while Llull shot 4/16 and still played 30 min and got all the shots he wanted.

I can relate to Luka a bit as I played pro ball myself. I wasnt at his level at his age but I was also 2nd year player on a pro senior team at 18. I knew I could score 20 each game but my avg was about 8. This was because I had so much respect for older players and I was not aggressive enough on offense. The next season I got more comfortable and more confident and my avg went from 8 to 22pp. The 22ppg season coincides with Lukas next season and I expect him to get more minutes, bigger role and be more effective overall. The rebounding is there already, passing as well and scoring will come naturally too.

Regarding the draft, I think he will not go 1 but will be in top 4. I believe he will be selected 3rd behind Ayton and Porter if they dont drop off.

I was saying in these Doncic threads all during the season that Real Madrid was a very noticeably worse team on offense, than the previous years, when they had Sergio Rodriguez. Most people here argued against that, and some even said they were better. But it was very clear right from the beginning, that their offense was much worse without Rodriguez.

From that NBA vs. EuroLeague game against the Thunder, it was very obvious. Most people were bragging that they scored 142 points against an NBA team, playing under NBA rules, but I was thinking they probably could have scored 160-180 with Rodriguez. Their offense was that clearly worse.

And it never got better at any point during the season. Which panned out in an easy out at the EuroLeague Final Four at the semis, and a fairly easy 3-1 series win for Valencia in the Spanish ACB League Finals. And they didn't have injuries as an excuse.

The bottom line was, all season long, with Llull and Doncic as their play makers, they had an erratic offense, with almost zero creativity, a ton of hero ball (Llull), very little actual play making, and in the case of Doncic, very little dribble penetration.

The drop off in true point guard skills and play from Rodriguez, was really high and glaringly obvious to anyone that understands proper basketball.

With that being said, no way should Laso and Real Madrid come with the same two main ball handlers next season in Llull and Doncic. They don't have the necessary lead guard skills. They absolutely must have a real play maker, and not someone like just Dontaye Draper, who is basically a pure defensive specialist.

If they don't bring a real play maker, they again won't win anything, and again will have a totally hectic and erratic offense, where they are just jacking up 3s all game long. That's basically all they did the whole season.

They either have to bring back Facundo Campazzo off loan, or sign another play maker. But there is no way that they should roll with a Llull/Doncic combo at the one again, if they are serious about winning. I am guessing they just bring Campazzo back off loan, and he takes the role Rodriguez had.

Doncic isn't getting an increased role and a lot more playing time, if they want to win EuroLeague or Spanish League again.

[Dr Positivity]

The NBA has spent years under-picking international players with Doncic's strengths (numbers) in favor of projects with physical tools. None of them were Doncic, but the trend would suggest to me him getting picked too low

[burek3]

Milos Teodosic 30y
Vassilis Spanoulis 34y
Juan Carlos Navarro 37y
Sergio Llull 29y
Keith Langford 33y
K.C. Rivers 30y
Scottie Wilbekin 24y

Could do with listing some 50 year old players up there while you're at it, why stop at 37