Chris Paul to the Rockets

[-Ian-]

Hornets fan here. Is there any Clippers fan here that wants to see their team go after Hayward?

[mkwest]

DeAndre Liggings as of 6/24/17 was guaranteed for $26,733. His contract will be fully guaranteed on 1/10/18 for the full amount of $1,577,230.

Darrun Hilliard has a nonguaranteed salary of $1,471,382. $1M of that will be guaranteed on 7/1/17.

Kyle Wiltjer has a nonguaranted salary of $1,312,611 that will be fully guaranteed on 7/12/17.

Sam Dekker will earn $1,794,600 in 2017/18. There is a team option for 2018/19 at $2,760,095.

Montrezl Harrell will earn $1,471,382 in 2017/18.

Patrick Beverly will earn $5,513,514 in 2017/18. He has a nonguaranteed salary of $5,027,028 for 2018/19 in which $5M of that will be guaranteed on 1/10/19.

Lou Williams has 1 year at $7M.

------------------------


If Blake walks (and there's no trade), the Clippers would have a little under $24M in cap space provided we waived the non and partial guaranteed players and the $7.1M trade exception. If Blake returns, the Clippers would have $7.1M trade exception, the $8.406M MLE and be hard-capped @ $123M.

[mttwlsn16]

Hornets fan here. Is there any Clippers fan here that wants to see their team go after Hayward?

No. He won't put us over the top. Clippers aren't beating GS. Rather load up on assets at this point.

[Ranma]

eh, you know i kinda want to believe it, but eaves has tried to create drama before where none existed. he's just not reliable.

I vaguely remember what you're talking about. Can you refresh my memory a bit with regards to Eaves's drama?

Between Michael Eaves and Rivers & son, I'm going to side with Eaves. Eaves used to be a sideline reporter with the Clippers and very likely still maintains connections with the players and team employees. He even acknowledged that his info may not be spot on as it is coming from the perspective of his sources. That seems to me like an implication of a player's point of view. Maybe he only has access to hangers-on and posse members, but he doesn't strike me as a guy who would spout wild accusations without a reasonable basis. I could be wrong, but he's more believable to me than his counterparts.

Doc and Austin, on the other hand, have been known to make excuses and spout delusions. Do I need to cite Doc blowing smoke up DJ's rear and comparing him to Bill Russell as part of a "Big 3", where his use of that term has actually diminished its meaning? Or how about his continued excuses for not fulfilling expectations or living up to his own words of "no excuses" upon his arrival? He even talked about not wanting to surround himself with yes men at Jerry West's press conference, which elicited a bunch of laughing icons from the audience during the Facebook stream. His staff has always been full of his cronies.

Now onto Austin, a guy who thought he was better than every player on the US National Mens Basketball Team he wasn't invited to. He only backed away from that statement after being called out on social media by excusing it as a necessary mentality for him to have. It's not a secret that the dude is cocky, which has been excused by current and former teammates as part of his natural personality that allows for him to compete at the NBA level. Coach K had trouble reaching the kid. Enough said.

Again, if you're going to ask me which account I'm going to believe between these two camps, I'm not going with the family known for being full of BS.

[Ranma]

Hornets fan here. Is there any Clippers fan here that wants to see their team go after Hayward?

No. He won't put us over the top. Clippers aren't beating GS. Rather load up on assets at this point.

I recently advocated for making a move for Hayward in a longshot daydream scenario, but without Chris Paul, I don't really see the point. He's a good player but not worth the money it would take to get him. I agree with mttwlsn16.

Whatever the case may be, today's Baketball Analogy podcast [start at 59:00 timestamp] got me to thinking more on my fancy for Hayward even if it didn't exactly help my cause. First, there was some doubt expressed on whether the Clippers would offer Chris Paul 5 full years on a contract extension with the comment that it was far from a sure thing even though he was likelier to get a longer deal than Blake Griffin. Second, given Gordon Hayward's age, he may actually be more inclined to accept a 4- or even 3-year deal, which would allow him to be a free agent as a 10-year veteran who could get another max contract in his prime.

Jerry West has gone on record as wanting to pair Stephen Curry with a tall shooting guard capable of defending as well as shoot the lights out as a perfect complement for the Warriors' backcourt. The same principle would apply for Gordon Hayward filling the role of Klay Thompson to Chris Paul's Steph Curry.

[nickhx2]

if i remember i'll let you know. but it made me distrustful of him.

[Goner]

Hornets fan here. Is there any Clippers fan here that wants to see their team go after Hayward?

Most Clippers fans don't like him because he always goes off on us, plus his face could use a few more imperfections if you know what I mean. I wouldn't be opposed to pursuing Hayward atm, but I also wouldn't be opposed to a total blow up.

[Neddy]

eh, you know i kinda want to believe it, but eaves has tried to create drama before where none existed. he's just not reliable.

I vaguely remember what you're talking about. Can you refresh my memory a bit with regards to Eaves's drama?

Between Michael Eaves and Rivers & son, I'm going to side with Eaves. Eaves used to be a sideline reporter with the Clippers and very likely still maintains connections with the players and team employees. He even acknowledged that his info may not be spot on as it is coming from the perspective of his sources. That seems to me like an implication of a player's point of view. Maybe he only has access to hangers-on and posse members, but he doesn't strike me as a guy who would spout wild accusations without a reasonable basis. I could be wrong, but he's more believable to me than his counterparts.

Doc and Austin, on the other hand, have been known to make excuses and spout delusions. Do I need to cite Doc blowing smoke up DJ's rear and comparing him to Bill Russell as part of a "Big 3", where his use of that term has actually diminished its meaning? Or how about his continued excuses for not fulfilling expectations or living up to his own words of "no excuses" upon his arrival? He even talked about not wanting to surround himself with yes men at Jerry West's press conference, which elicited a bunch of laughing icons from the audience during the Facebook stream. His staff has always been full of his cronies.

Now onto Austin, a guy who thought he was better than every player on the US National Mens Basketball Team he wasn't invited to. He only backed away from that statement after being called out on social media by excusing it as a necessary mentality for him to have. It's not a secret that the dude is cocky, which has been excused by current and former teammates as part of his natural personality that allows for him to compete at the NBA level. Coach K had trouble reaching the kid. Enough said.

Again, if you're going to ask me which account I'm going to believe between these two camps, I'm not going with the family known for being full of BS.

well? as bad as the Rivers family is in terms of their BS, at least there is some comfort that they are not the biggest BS family in LA's basketball universe, thanks to (and single handedly) one Lavar Ball.

[Akklaim1]

Who would've thought that Gordon and CP would be teammates?

[nickhx2]

heard gordon might be moved possibly? that'd be some twist of extra irony

[madmaxmedia]

It could be nothing, but it is interesting that Paul didn't mention his teammates in his post.

It's not surprising in a way. Not that I think it was intentional or malicious-

[madmaxmedia]

Are we in favor of blowing this up or building around Blake and DeAndre.

You've got to believe DeAndre could fetch us a couple of firsts.

What's the point of continuing on with a worse lineup? It's bad enough CP3 left but we're still stuck with Doc? He's gonna cost us lottery position while not developing our young players. This would be the worst of possible outcomes.

If we're going to try to retool, offer the Pacers a package of DJ, a draft pick, and some of the players we've acquired from Houston for Paul George. Then, look to trade for Ricky Rubio, who Minnesota is itching to offload. Rubio, Griffin, and George is not a bad trio to have. The silver lining of Paul's departure would be that we could be playing at a faster pace with that lineup, which benefits Griffin specifically. Otherwise, press the detonate button and don't give BG a full max deal.

I am in favor of re-signing Blake and moving DJ for pieces, and then continue making moves from there.

I would love to get Ricky Rubio, wonder what we could get him for.

[Quake Griffin]

Are we in favor of blowing this up or building around Blake and DeAndre.

You've got to believe DeAndre could fetch us a couple of firsts.

What's the point of continuing on with a worse lineup? It's bad enough CP3 left but we're still stuck with Doc? He's gonna cost us lottery position while not developing our young players. This would be the worst of possible outcomes.

If we're going to try to retool, offer the Pacers a package of DJ, a draft pick, and some of the players we've acquired from Houston for Paul George. Then, look to trade for Ricky Rubio, who Minnesota is itching to offload. Rubio, Griffin, and George is not a bad trio to have. The silver lining of Paul's departure would be that we could be playing at a faster pace with that lineup, which benefits Griffin specifically. Otherwise, press the detonate button and don't give BG a full max deal.

I'm more in favor of a blow up than that. For one, I don't think it can win. Two, I'd be pissed if we traded for PG and he signed with LAL in the offseason. Blake is oft-injured. We have Jerry West. Why not rebuild? Isn't the draft his thing? Why not maximize that tool?

Plus a rebuild will honestly force Doc's hand. Commit to the organization or go quit and front run like a chicken **** with another team.

I was thinking about getting back into the 1st round of the 2017 draft + a future asset because if you're going to rebuild....why wait and I like the depth of this draft. I liked Justin Jackson at 15. I like DJ Wilson at 17.

Could we eat a contract (to match), take DJ Wilson, plus a pick if DeAndre says he'll opt in?




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[playaloc916]

Ultimately it was the right move. If it came down to keeping only one of CP and BG, I would've went with BG too. I'm a fan of CP, but he's getting up there in age, asking for a lot, and his personality as well as play style seems to have been clashing with our other players. Either you put your full faith in a soon-to-be declining CP, or a go with BG who is a great player but just had a few tough breaks recently.

At least we got a decent return, and CP gets his last big payday and goes to a contending team. Win-win situation to me. I actually would have been a bit disappointed if we tried to keep our big 3 together. Let's face it, our team was not going to beat the Warriors even if we're healthy. Might as well retool a bit and wait for the Warriors to cool off before going all in.

I'm curious but also confident in West's vision for this team. Hopefully this will be a "take one step back, then take two forward" type outcome.

I don't think it really was choosing one over the other, we should sign and trade Blake too, as Ranma mentioned the other day.

what good is it to build around a 28 year old who is always hurt and is regressing his athleticism? I know the names we got back in return for Chris is not impressive at all, but with Blake, if we could get a player of Lou or Beverly's impact who is in early 20s plus a first rounder or two with other fillers, we can truly start our rebuild. I think DJ should be traded now too, along with Jamal. I know as long as Doc is around, Austin will be here, so there goes that.. but maybe Doc will now consider taking the same job with the Magic and leave us alone. if that happens, I sure hope he takes his son with him. we can ask for Vucevic or Aaron Gordon for doc and bady doc lol.

Well I wouldn't go as far as trading all our core guys and completely starting from scratch. Although Blake is hurt often, he is still a very talented player. Of course, we can explore trades with him, but I don't think trading him just to move on from the Lob City era is the way to go. There are teams that went for a full on rebuild, like the Nets, 76'ers, Magic, etc, that have been terrible for quite awhile, but still don't have much to show for it (well, the 76'ers are an exception because of all the injuries). There's just too much uncertainty in a full rebuild. If we had a coach that was great at developing rookies (ie. not Doc), I'd be a little more confident, but what good coaches are realistically available?

I'd rather go for a half-rebuild, by keeping one of our main guys, in this case Blake, and then okay getting rid of the rest. I look at teams like the Wizards, Pacers (pre-George departure), Portland, etc, as teams that did a mini-rebuild, and ended up still being competitive and in decent shape going forward. DJ i'm indifferent on, but someone like Jamal, I've given up all hope that he is traded lol.

[UKClipperfan]

Are we in favor of blowing this up or building around Blake and DeAndre.

You've got to believe DeAndre could fetch us a couple of firsts.

What's the point of continuing on with a worse lineup? It's bad enough CP3 left but we're still stuck with Doc? He's gonna cost us lottery position while not developing our young players. This would be the worst of possible outcomes.

If we're going to try to retool, offer the Pacers a package of DJ, a draft pick, and some of the players we've acquired from Houston for Paul George. Then, look to trade for Ricky Rubio, who Minnesota is itching to offload. Rubio, Griffin, and George is not a bad trio to have. The silver lining of Paul's departure would be that we could be playing at a faster pace with that lineup, which benefits Griffin specifically. Otherwise, press the detonate button and don't give BG a full max deal.

I am in favor of re-signing Blake and moving DJ for pieces, and then continue making moves from there.

I would love to get Ricky Rubio, wonder what we could get him for.

I want Blake and DJ to retire as Clippers, providing they want to stay of course. They could easily want to go in a new direction themselves. I don't see why you can't build around both of them. Rim protectors like DJ are very hard to come by. His development is one of the few good things to come out of Doc's time here. If we can somehow turn DJ into PG then sure, but I don't see that happening. If PG were to come he'd probably want DJ on the team anyway.

I think Rubio would be relatively cheap. The Wolves seem open to offers. I'd welcome it, he'd a be a very fun addition. That being said, its absolutely mandatory to have wing players who can shoot and play D if you want to have any success in this league. It was the Achilles heal of the Lob City era, so that should be the priority. Beverly is already on the team so its not like there's a glaring hole at that position, tho Beverly and Rubio would make quite the defensive backcourt.

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

I'm more in favor of a blow up than that. For one, I don't think it can win. Two, I'd be pissed if we traded for PG and he signed with LAL in the offseason. Blake is oft-injured. We have Jerry West. Why not rebuild? Isn't the draft his thing? Why not maximize that tool?

Plus a rebuild will honestly force Doc's hand. Commit to the organization or go quit and front run like a chicken **** with another team.

I was thinking about getting back into the 1st round of the 2017 draft + a future asset because if you're going to rebuild....why wait and I like the depth of this draft. I liked Justin Jackson at 15. I like DJ Wilson at 17.

Could we eat a contract (to match), take DJ Wilson, plus a pick if DeAndre says he'll opt in?

I'd prefer a full-on rebuild myself, which includes signing-and-trading Griffin, but I presented the retool option because talk is that the organization will try to bring him back. I want Doc gone regardless as he's the one I blame the most for our state of affairs. He hadn't developed talent in the past and expressed disinterest in rebuilds previously, so why would I trust him to do it now? I've heard talk from Bill Simmons and someone else implying that Doc doesn't work as hard as you'd think as someone with the dual role of president of basketball operations and coach. Similar to Byron Scott when he was Lakers coach, Doc can be found on the golf course with regularity during the season. This from a guy trying to convince us that he "needed more sleep" and that West's arrival will alleviate the workload off of him so that he can focus on coaching.

I suspect Doc wants to stay despite the rebuild because he's in a cushy position here cozying up to Ballmer while living the good life in sunny California. Remember the talk of how he wanted to leave his role as coach so that he would run things as front office executive? The likelihood that CP3 left because of the dysfunctional leadership regardless of the Austin Rivers thing is enough for him to be dropped at the curb of Staples Center. These are things we've seen for years. No more excuses. Bring in David Griffin as GM and demote or move Lawrene Frank. I'll trust Jerry West to find our next head coach.

Like you said, we'll be in better hands with Jerry West in full control of a total rebuild when we build from the ground up. I want Rubio even though he hampers our cap situation a little for a couple of seasons, because he'd at least make us entertaining during the rebuilding process. With Ballmer and a team in Los Angeles, the Clippers should be a free-agent draw regardless. Obviously,
it would help if we had a star player and/or show that we'll be competitive, as you pointed out, but what's the point given our circumstances during the Golden State era of dominance?

[Ranma]

Well I wouldn't go as far as trading all our core guys and completely starting from scratch. Although Blake is hurt often, he is still a very talented player. Of course, we can explore trades with him, but I don't think trading him just to move on from the Lob City era is the way to go. There are teams that went for a full on rebuild, like the Nets, 76'ers, Magic, etc, that have been terrible for quite awhile, but still don't have much to show for it (well, the 76'ers are an exception because of all the injuries). There's just too much uncertainty in a full rebuild. If we had a coach that was great at developing rookies (ie. not Doc), I'd be a little more confident, but what good coaches are realistically available?

I'm not opposed to bringing Griffin back but I don't want to give him the full max given his injury history. DJ has a player option after next season and I certainly don't want to sign him to a max offer either. We should sell high now, especially since we should be in a rebuild or retool mode.

Yeah, there is uncertainty with a rebuild but it's better than knowing that we'll continue to win meaningless games only to bow out early in the playoffs year after year. And we're without Chris Paul now. Unlike the other teams you've mentioned, the Clippers now have Jerry West as adviser who is proven as architect of the Showtime Lakers and the man who drafted Kobe and united him with Shaq.

With Ballmer's ambition and West in the fold, we should be an attractive free-agent destination when the time comes. The only thing that has been holding us back and continues to do so is Doc Rivers. Our current dysfunctional state is the direct result of his lacking leadership. Getting rid of him, would allow us to actually focus on developing talent in earnest. We sure as heck haven't been able to compete in the postseason with him at the helm. He's the only coach in NBA history to blow a 3-1 series lead in the playoffs twice in NBA history.

[I want Blake and DJ to retire as Clippers, providing they want to stay of course. They could easily want to go in a new direction themselves. I don't see why you can't build around both of them. Rim protectors like DJ are very hard to come by. His development is one of the few good things to come out of Doc's time here. If we can somehow turn DJ into PG then sure, but I don't see that happening. If PG were to come he'd probably want DJ on the team anyway.

As I mentioned above, DJ is not worth the max offer he'll be seeking after he opts out after this upcoming season. He doesn't have a winner's mentality and is far from clutch in the late moment of games. Getting assets for him would be more valuable to us than having him continue to put up meaningless numbers for a team that can't come anywhere close to challenging the Warriors. Continuing on with our middling performance doesn't make any sense. We shouldn't rebuild in half-measure. If we retool,
we can't commit to DJ long-term to preserve cap space for actual quality free agents.

[Ranma]

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[nickhx2]

Making poor equity decisions is why we're in this mess in the first place.

It's why we never had a team good enough to win a ring. It's why chris paul up and left. It might be why durant never signed here. Year after year the team squandered virtually every single useful resource available to now.

That people actually talk about using blake in a s/t at this point is beyond perplexing, and maddening to boot. I don't just see it here, i see it other places as well. Blake just has huge value in so many ways if we can sign him to a contract and he is almost literally the perfect antidote to our problems right now. And it's because, for one thing, this franchise is reeling and desperately needs a hero and new identity and blake is that guy, just waiting for us to sign him. As great as paul was, he capped blake in his ways. For another, he's a treasure trove of resources because he'd be a top 15 player in his prime on a long term deal that can re-invigorate our "farm system" with just one legit trade.

But sending him off in a s/t just for the sake of rebuilding might the worst move this franchise could ever make when the alternatives make so much more sense. Personally for me if the clips s/t'd him when he wanted to stay here i just wouldn't be able to abide by the stupidity anymore and i'd just move on. Doc's made a living lighting all our resources on fire just to buy more gasoline for future bonfires. Signing blake can help reverse that. Signing then trading him this offseason would be the last straw.