Official Melo Trade Thread: WOJ BOMB UPDATE PG 21: Will Waive NTC for HOU and CLE

[Billy Goat]

I feel like the CP3 trade should make us less desperate to trade him, because it's possible he could opt out next summer and just sign there.

Yeah. Unless Anthony is going to intentionally make himself a distraction (and he doesn't seem like the type to be honest) there really is no reason to rush to dump him. Yes, it's better if he's not on the Knicks and he has no future here but that doesn't mean you have to cow tail to what he wants. At the end of the day, it's about what is in the best interest of the Knicks and maximizing things. Right now, I don't see a buyout (definitely not a waiver) as maximizing things for NY. SAS said emphatically that money absolutely does matter for Anthony so it's highly highly unlikely that he will agree to a sizable cut in a buyout and that if the choice was taking less money to get out or keeping the money, he will likely choose the money.

Taking away shots from the younger players is a distraction. The Knicks are going to be god awful next year...the only way to improve is by getting the younger guys minutes and shots. Bringing back Carmelo again is insane. Absolutley insane.

[Huey Freeman]

You're delusional if you think Melo would be a good fit in Houston. He along with James and and CP3 are ball dominant players, who need the ball to be effective. That formula is not beating the Warriors or the Spurs out west

Also, the defense on that team

True, the defense would be @ss but if Ryan Anderson is part of the deal being routed somewhere else then the defense doesn't take a hit.

Also, I think the mindset is that Olympic Melo was not ball dominant because he had better players around him. Was MDA part of those Olympics teams? If so, that WILL be Melo's role and the vision that the offense will take. He would be a 3rd option; and Houston's #2 4Q "end-of-game-bucket-getter-option" behind Harden...perfect role for Melo at this stage in his career.

[god shammgod]

unless you find a team that at least kind of wants ryan anderson, there is no trade. i don't know such a team exists.

[FixTheKnicks]

Knicks Out- Melo, Lee, O'Quinn
Knicks In- Rubio, Ariza, Gordon, Aldrich

Rockets Out- Ariza, Anderson, Gordon
Rockets In- Melo, O'Quinn

Timberwolves Out- Rubio, Aldrich
Timberwolves In- Anderson, Lee

Knicks get a return for Melo with Rubio to start and mentor Frank.
Starts- Rubio/Gordon/Ariza/KP/WHG

Rockets form big 3 with room to add pieces.
Starts- CP3/Harden/Melo/O'Quinn/Nene

Timberwolves add starting perimeter 3 point shooting PF and sixth man. Room to sign FA PG.
Starts- FA/Wiggins/Butler/Anderson/Towns

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

I feel like the CP3 trade should make us less desperate to trade him, because it's possible he could opt out next summer and just sign there.

Yeah. Unless Anthony is going to intentionally make himself a distraction (and he doesn't seem like the type to be honest) there really is no reason to rush to dump him. Yes, it's better if he's not on the Knicks and he has no future here but that doesn't mean you have to cow tail to what he wants. At the end of the day, it's about what is in the best interest of the Knicks and maximizing things. Right now, I don't see a buyout (definitely not a waiver) as maximizing things for NY. SAS said emphatically that money absolutely does matter for Anthony so it's highly highly unlikely that he will agree to a sizable cut in a buyout and that if the choice was taking less money to get out or keeping the money, he will likely choose the money.

Taking away shots from the younger players is a distraction. The Knicks are going to be god awful next year...the only way to improve is by getting the younger guys minutes and shots. Bringing back Carmelo again is insane. Absolutley insane.

If you want to trade him and maximize the return, you need to make a convincing front that you are willing to keep him. If anything was gained from firing Phil, it's the opportunity to publically reset the Melo situation, redefining his trade value and how the Knicks value him.

Just a couple of days ago, with talk of a buyout, his value was basically zero. If you allow that to remain the case, then you have to also consider keeping him.

[moocow007]

You're delusional if you think Melo would be a good fit in Houston. He along with James and and CP3 are ball dominant players, who need the ball to be effective. That formula is not beating the Warriors or the Spurs out west

Also, the defense on that team

Logic doesn't really matter. All it takes is for Morey (and presumably D'Antoni) to believe it.

I also think Paul and Melo want this to happen. It's maybe part of the deal in trading for Paul that you have to make a legit push for Melo too.

Yeah someone actually reported that this could actually be a reason that Paul didn't opt out and by doing so basically agreed to go to Houston. Also while I don't think Anthony is necessarily D'Antoni's BFF that this whole D'Antoni blames Anthony for everything is overblown. Remember, at the end of the day, the problem D'Antoni had in NY wasn't just Anthony, it was the lack of the type of shooters and facilitators that his system needed. No offense to Jeremy Lin, while he was great in NY, the reality is that Linsanity was about Lin creating shots for himself and basically going mostly ISO himself. Lin wasn't facilitating a whole lot, certainly not to the degree that D'Antoni needs to maximize his system. Nor were the skills of the rest of the team ideal for his system. With Harden showing that he's a great fit for D'Antoni and adding another guy (Paul) that on paper should also be a great fit, they could suffer Anthony on the team. Folks seem to forget that when Anthony has had great PG's his teams have done extremely well and he was more than capable of playing within the offense.

[mpharris36]

teams were asking for 2 picks it says on the wiretap. how can you reroute him then ?

rockets were asking teams to take his entire team into cap space. Of course that requires picks to do. But I'm not talking about re-routing him for cap space. Bring back a better fitting player or two.

why give up a cheaper contract, or 2, you don't want for a more expensive one you don't want. that's even harder to get rid of. it doesn't make sense. portland, your example, wants to free up money. this doesn't help them.

Because I would take back picks in both trade

Melo to HOU
Ryan Anderson to Portland
Moe Harkless and Meyers Leonard to the KNicks

also Portland and HOU both send us a 1st future 1st round pick.

HOU gets Melo
PORT saves $$$ and gets a better fitting player
Knicks get a good solid young player and 2 future first round picks.

[mpharris36]

unless you find a team that at least kind of wants ryan anderson, there is no trade. i don't know such a team exists.

im sure those are the discussions now. Knicks wont make a trade unless they find a 3rd team.

[duetta]

Go find a young SF to develop, and move Anthony to the PF for this season, with KP at center (assuming KP comes in looking a little more like Ivan Drago...). With the cap again contracting, I would rather have Anthony's cap space in 1 or 2 years than the likely roadkill that we will acquire in a deal.

If the right YOUNG player becomes available, I would be happy to exchange Willy for him (since I don't see Willy becoming a defender, and I see KP defensive skills as best suited to being a C in the modern NBA).

[moocow007]

I feel like the CP3 trade should make us less desperate to trade him, because it's possible he could opt out next summer and just sign there.

Yeah. Unless Anthony is going to intentionally make himself a distraction (and he doesn't seem like the type to be honest) there really is no reason to rush to dump him. Yes, it's better if he's not on the Knicks and he has no future here but that doesn't mean you have to cow tail to what he wants. At the end of the day, it's about what is in the best interest of the Knicks and maximizing things. Right now, I don't see a buyout (definitely not a waiver) as maximizing things for NY. SAS said emphatically that money absolutely does matter for Anthony so it's highly highly unlikely that he will agree to a sizable cut in a buyout and that if the choice was taking less money to get out or keeping the money, he will likely choose the money.

Taking away shots from the younger players is a distraction. The Knicks are going to be god awful next year...the only way to improve is by getting the younger guys minutes and shots. Bringing back Carmelo again is insane. Absolutley insane.

The Knicks are a LONG, LONG, LONG way away from getting better. Shots? How many offensive players do they have? Do you really want these inexperienced young players chucking up shots (cause they are going to have to...believe it or not...someone has to actually shoot)? Do you really want to teams to start throwing their defenses at Porzingis (why do you think he was so against Anthony being dumped) and Ntilikina? Anthony as a buffer actually is valid...yeah yeah but you hate him vigorously. Bringing Anthony back with Jackson fouling things with his mouth was insane. Jackson is gone. So while they should still look to move Anthony there is no reason to jump at dumping him. And since Anthony is a piece of crap (right?) he shouldn't hurt the tank any.

[Billy Goat]

Yeah. Unless Anthony is going to intentionally make himself a distraction (and he doesn't seem like the type to be honest) there really is no reason to rush to dump him. Yes, it's better if he's not on the Knicks and he has no future here but that doesn't mean you have to cow tail to what he wants. At the end of the day, it's about what is in the best interest of the Knicks and maximizing things. Right now, I don't see a buyout (definitely not a waiver) as maximizing things for NY. SAS said emphatically that money absolutely does matter for Anthony so it's highly highly unlikely that he will agree to a sizable cut in a buyout and that if the choice was taking less money to get out or keeping the money, he will likely choose the money.

Taking away shots from the younger players is a distraction. The Knicks are going to be god awful next year...the only way to improve is by getting the younger guys minutes and shots. Bringing back Carmelo again is insane. Absolutley insane.

If you want to trade him and maximize the return, you need to make a convincing front that you are willing to keep him. If anything was gained from firing Phil, it's the opportunity to publically reset the Melo situation, redefining his trade value and how the Knicks value him.

The NTC eliminates any value. I think the idea that Phil hurt his trade value is laughable...also Phil being fired icnreasing it is equally laughable. His value is his value, which is nothing with the NTC.

[Adelheid]

Logic doesn't really matter. All it takes is for Morey (and presumably D'Antoni) to believe it.

I also think Paul and Melo want this to happen. It's maybe part of the deal in trading for Paul that you have to make a legit push for Melo too.

Yeah someone actually reported that this could actually be a reason that Paul didn't opt out and by doing so basically agreed to go to Houston. Also while I don't think Anthony is necessarily D'Antoni's BFF that this whole D'Antoni blames Anthony for everything is overblown. Remember, at the end of the day, the problem D'Antoni had in NY wasn't just Anthony, it was the lack of the type of shooters and facilitators that his system needed. No offense to Jeremy Lin, while he was great in NY, the reality is that Linsanity was about Lin creating shots for himself and basically going mostly ISO himself. Lin wasn't facilitating a whole lot, certainly not to the degree that D'Antoni needs to maximize his system. Nor were the skills of the rest of the team ideal for his system. With Harden showing that he's a great fit for D'Antoni and adding another guy (Paul) that on paper should also be a great fit, they could suffer Anthony on the team. Folks seem to forget that when Anthony has had great PG's his teams have done extremely well and he was more than capable of playing within the offense.

For Morey to make a trade for Melo he will have to be convinced that CP3 can "discipline" Melo

[F N 11]

It has to be a trade point blank period. If not Melo play the year out and Opt out with your buddies after this season. Your choice.

[moocow007]

Taking away shots from the younger players is a distraction. The Knicks are going to be god awful next year...the only way to improve is by getting the younger guys minutes and shots. Bringing back Carmelo again is insane. Absolutley insane.

If you want to trade him and maximize the return, you need to make a convincing front that you are willing to keep him. If anything was gained from firing Phil, it's the opportunity to publically reset the Melo situation, redefining his trade value and how the Knicks value him.

The NTC eliminates any value. I think the idea that Phil hurt his trade value is laughable...also Phil being fired icnreasing it is equally laughable. His value is his value, which is nothing with the NTC.

? You just said that the NTC eliminates any value and then right aafter that say that the idea Phil hurt his trade value is laughable? Did Phil Jackson give him that NTC or was it the Easter Bunny?

[Billy Goat]

Yeah. Unless Anthony is going to intentionally make himself a distraction (and he doesn't seem like the type to be honest) there really is no reason to rush to dump him. Yes, it's better if he's not on the Knicks and he has no future here but that doesn't mean you have to cow tail to what he wants. At the end of the day, it's about what is in the best interest of the Knicks and maximizing things. Right now, I don't see a buyout (definitely not a waiver) as maximizing things for NY. SAS said emphatically that money absolutely does matter for Anthony so it's highly highly unlikely that he will agree to a sizable cut in a buyout and that if the choice was taking less money to get out or keeping the money, he will likely choose the money.

Taking away shots from the younger players is a distraction. The Knicks are going to be god awful next year...the only way to improve is by getting the younger guys minutes and shots. Bringing back Carmelo again is insane. Absolutley insane.

The Knicks are a LONG, LONG, LONG way away from getting better. Shots? How many offensive players do they have? Do you really want these inexperienced young players chucking up shots (cause they are going to have to...believe it or not...someone has to actually shoot)? Do you really want to teams to start throwing their defenses at Porzingis (why do you think he was so against Anthony being dumped) and Ntilikina? Anthony as a buffer actually is valid...yeah yeah but you hate him vigorously. Bringing Anthony back with Jackson fouling things with his mouth was insane. Jackson is gone. So while they should still look to move Anthony there is no reason to jump at dumping him.

yes, I do. Anyone but Melo taking shots would be an improvement. How many more seasons of Melo being the leading shot taker do you need to see that its never going to work?

[NBA Fan 1234]

Rose not coming back is going to open up a **** ton of shots also because he was either shooting them or missing wide open guys. We don't need Anthony gone to "open up shots" if Rose is not going to be back. If anything, like KP said, having Melo there makes it easier for the guys to get their own shots. No Rose = ~20 open shots per game. That's more than enough for our guys to make up.

[moocow007]

I also think Paul and Melo want this to happen. It's maybe part of the deal in trading for Paul that you have to make a legit push for Melo too.

Yeah someone actually reported that this could actually be a reason that Paul didn't opt out and by doing so basically agreed to go to Houston. Also while I don't think Anthony is necessarily D'Antoni's BFF that this whole D'Antoni blames Anthony for everything is overblown. Remember, at the end of the day, the problem D'Antoni had in NY wasn't just Anthony, it was the lack of the type of shooters and facilitators that his system needed. No offense to Jeremy Lin, while he was great in NY, the reality is that Linsanity was about Lin creating shots for himself and basically going mostly ISO himself. Lin wasn't facilitating a whole lot, certainly not to the degree that D'Antoni needs to maximize his system. Nor were the skills of the rest of the team ideal for his system. With Harden showing that he's a great fit for D'Antoni and adding another guy (Paul) that on paper should also be a great fit, they could suffer Anthony on the team. Folks seem to forget that when Anthony has had great PG's his teams have done extremely well and he was more than capable of playing within the offense.

For Morey to make a trade for Melo he will have to be convinced that CP3 can "discipline" Melo

That would be the assumption as well. Again, I know folks hate Anthony for not being Lebron James, but there actually is historical proof that, given a real PG, Anthony actually can help a team win and play within the offense (see his entire tenure in Denver and that one year in NY he had a real PG...even a 38 year old one).

[moocow007]

Taking away shots from the younger players is a distraction. The Knicks are going to be god awful next year...the only way to improve is by getting the younger guys minutes and shots. Bringing back Carmelo again is insane. Absolutley insane.

The Knicks are a LONG, LONG, LONG way away from getting better. Shots? How many offensive players do they have? Do you really want these inexperienced young players chucking up shots (cause they are going to have to...believe it or not...someone has to actually shoot)? Do you really want to teams to start throwing their defenses at Porzingis (why do you think he was so against Anthony being dumped) and Ntilikina? Anthony as a buffer actually is valid...yeah yeah but you hate him vigorously. Bringing Anthony back with Jackson fouling things with his mouth was insane. Jackson is gone. So while they should still look to move Anthony there is no reason to jump at dumping him.

yes, I do. Anyone but Melo taking shots would be an improvement. How many more seasons of Melo being the leading shot taker do you need to see that its never going to work?

Work for what? Taking a crap team and making them good? He's not Lebron James already for freaking goodness sake. How many other players in this league would be able to take the mostly crap players that's been on this team with him and win anything?

[moocow007]

It has to be a trade point blank period. If not Melo play the year out and Opt out with your buddies after this season. Your choice.

Yeah agreed. He wants out he needs to bend.

[Billy Goat]

If you want to trade him and maximize the return, you need to make a convincing front that you are willing to keep him. If anything was gained from firing Phil, it's the opportunity to publically reset the Melo situation, redefining his trade value and how the Knicks value him.

The NTC eliminates any value. I think the idea that Phil hurt his trade value is laughable...also Phil being fired icnreasing it is equally laughable. His value is his value, which is nothing with the NTC.

? You just said that the NTC eliminates any value and then right aafter that say that the idea Phil hurt his trade value is laughable? Did Phil Jackson give him that NTC or was it the Easter Bunny?

Phil talking poorly about his game didnt change his value was what I was referring to. Phil giving him that contract alone was a fireable offense.